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Dev blog: Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch

First post First post First post
Author
Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#1181 - 2012-11-02 09:57:59 UTC
I'd like some clarity on the "safe logoff" function.

The implication from earlier in the thread is that it is something that you activate (right click on ship, select option?) and then wait for it to "wind up". If any of the variables previously mentioned exist then you won't be able to initiate "safe logoff", or it'll be cancelled mid-windup.

The dev post linked above suggests by saying "Weapons/PvP flag" specifically that someone with a 5 minute NPC timer could warp to a safe spot, activate the "safe logoff" option and disappear from space, potentially before their NPC timer would otherwise allow them to. Is this correct? In other words - I'm imagining it that if someone Ctrl+Qs as soon as a hostile appears on grid, when they have an NPC timer, then they will e-warp and hang around in space for ~5 minutes. If on the other hand they manage to warp out before getting aggressed by the player, and are able to "safe logoff" before the hostile can find them with probes, then they will disappear even if they would've had an NPC timer running?

Is this accurate? How long is the windup on "safe logoff" ?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1182 - 2012-11-02 10:14:25 UTC
Iwant Urstuff wrote:
The progammers CCP hires are just that programmers. They write code, they probably for the most part do not understand games.

Just two things:

PVE players specifically mission runners are going to HATE this. Some will hate it enough to quit the game. Less accounts equals less dollars.

I can't wait till the roaming fleets in null sec after this encounter gate rats. Gate rats are now the invincible GODS of the PVP world of EVE. This is freaking hilarious.



Most mission runners aren't going to give a damn about it. The NPC flag only affects disappearing in space on logoff/disconnect. Most mission runners won't see it.

Ratters used to use Ctrl+Q to escape people roaming, they're another matter.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1183 - 2012-11-02 13:24:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Green Looter wrote:
I have a some questions:

If you attack or kill an innocent ship in low sec and you get the suspect flag will you still take a "negative standing" hit on your personal sec-status like you do now?




And will the security status system work like it does now

Players with better than -2.0 can enter any system
Players with -2.0 or worse cannot enter 1.0 systems
Players with -2.5 or worse cannot enter 0.9 systems
Players with -3.0 or worse cannot enter 0.8 systems
Players with -3.5 or worse cannot enter 0.7 systems
Players with -4.0 or worse cannot enter 0.6 systems
Players with -4.5 or worse cannot enter 0.5 systems

and so on, or will that be changed?


You will take a negative standings hit on your sec status like you do now...
The security status is not changing yet... but there are cogs in motion to change this soon(tm) (Probably Summer)...

"can not enter" is totally misleading, or actually plain wrong.

He will get attacked by the avoidable local faction police.

Thats all.
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1184 - 2012-11-03 00:13:50 UTC
Iwant Urstuff wrote:
The progammers CCP hires are just that programmers. They write code, they probably for the most part do not understand games.

Just two things:

PVE players specifically mission runners are going to HATE this. Some will hate it enough to quit the game. Less accounts equals less dollars.

I can't wait till the roaming fleets in null sec after this encounter gate rats. Gate rats are now the invincible GODS of the PVP world of EVE. This is freaking hilarious.

Confirming that my main wasn't born around the time of EVE's first ever expansion, that I never attended any fanfests as a player, that I have never set a 4AM alarm clock just so I could switch a vital skill before the skill queue existed, that I never spent an entire weekend making instas for my corp before WTZ, that I never enjoyed life as a pirate or that I've ever ratted myself back up from -10, that I was never involved in 'legitimate' banking and investment schemes, that I've never driven hundreds of miles just to attend a player meet, that I never bought the original boxed version of EVE in a games store 9 years ago, that I never spent hours sniping at a POS in a tempest before dreadnoughts had been conceived, that I never missed on out winning two T2 BPOs at once because I was working away from home for a few weeks without the ability to log in and the agents then decided to give them to someone else instead because I didn't respond to their 'I've had a breakthrough' memos in time.

Nope, I definitely didn't do any of this before CCP hired me. And I'm definitely not still bitter about those agent offers.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1185 - 2012-11-03 00:18:32 UTC
what BPOs are we talking about ? :D
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#1186 - 2012-11-03 01:05:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Durzel wrote:
I'd like some clarity on the "safe logoff" function.

The implication from earlier in the thread is that it is something that you activate (right click on ship, select option?) and then wait for it to "wind up". If any of the variables previously mentioned exist then you won't be able to initiate "safe logoff", or it'll be cancelled mid-windup.

The dev post linked above suggests by saying "Weapons/PvP flag" specifically that someone with a 5 minute NPC timer could warp to a safe spot, activate the "safe logoff" option and disappear from space, potentially before their NPC timer would otherwise allow them to. Is this correct? In other words - I'm imagining it that if someone Ctrl+Qs as soon as a hostile appears on grid, when they have an NPC timer, then they will e-warp and hang around in space for ~5 minutes. If on the other hand they manage to warp out before getting aggressed by the player, and are able to "safe logoff" before the hostile can find them with probes, then they will disappear even if they would've had an NPC timer running?

Is this accurate? How long is the windup on "safe logoff" ?


My reading is that safe logoff is only possible with no flags active and no-one on grid. So if you warp to safe and log off with 5 minutes left on your NPC timer, your ship sits in space until that timer runs down. In those 5 minutes, someone can scan your ship down, shoot it, and put a 15 minute PVP timer on your ship, which will also prevent it from disappearing.

The idea is there's no more vanishing at the first sign of hostiles in system.

Iwant Urstuff: Mission runners will only notice this if their client crashes during a mission and their ship is warp scrambled at the time of the crash and their ship is incapable of perma-tanking the rats. That could be me, because I deliberately fly woefully non-cap-stable ships into missions just to make them more interesting, and my client has crashed in missions before, but I'm not really sweating this. Mass unsubscriptions are just not going to happen; if anything pisses off carebears, it'll be the change to the NPC AI. But I'm not really going to sweat that either; I've long since traded reliable DPS for incredibly conservative drone management. In missions, it's not that big a deal.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

ParkRanger Bill
Parks 'n Wrecks Wildlife Management
#1187 - 2012-11-03 05:11:44 UTC  |  Edited by: ParkRanger Bill
My question was answered, danka.

You only lose the ability to eject if you fire back, if your pointed first, you can bail or run if not scramed.

My application was to mining, can a miner eject into a combat ship if they have not engaged, answer 'yes'.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#1188 - 2012-11-03 08:03:56 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:

Confirming that my main wasn't born around the time of EVE's first ever expansion, that I never attended any fanfests as a player, that I have never set a 4AM alarm clock just so I could switch a vital skill before the skill queue existed, that I never spent an entire weekend making instas for my corp before WTZ, that I never enjoyed life as a pirate or that I've ever ratted myself back up from -10, that I was never involved in 'legitimate' banking and investment schemes, that I've never driven hundreds of miles just to attend a player meet, that I never bought the original boxed version of EVE in a games store 9 years ago, that I never spent hours sniping at a POS in a tempest before dreadnoughts had been conceived, that I never missed on out winning two T2 BPOs at once because I was working away from home for a few weeks without the ability to log in and the agents then decided to give them to someone else instead because I didn't respond to their 'I've had a breakthrough' memos in time.

Nope, I definitely didn't do any of this before CCP hired me. And I'm definitely not still bitter about those agent offers.


Me thinks that Masterplan is wee bit ironic in that post ;)

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

fukier
Gallente Federation
#1189 - 2012-11-03 13:26:58 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Nope, I definitely didn't do any of this before CCP hired me. And I'm definitely not still bitter about those agent offers.


so you are pro trashing all tech II BPO? cool me too bro.
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#1190 - 2012-11-08 07:17:17 UTC
Too much to read so I hope someone will just answer this. (Yes I was lazy and did'nt read all of this and busy)

Anyhow... I blew up... in a pod... in high sec. And I learned that I should fly a ship always cause otherwise I will not get a kill right so I could go and get even.

Now the question. In the new system, will I get kill right if I'm podded or is this all still limited to ships and if I loose a ship?
And if this is all limited to ships again could a dev answer why in the !"#ยค% it is only limited to ships?

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm

Fragbox
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1191 - 2012-11-08 09:55:22 UTC
Thank you for killing Dreadnaught ratting cccp and restricting them entirly to Blobfare
glad i dont have to train siege mod t2 anymore now
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#1192 - 2012-11-08 14:59:40 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
In the new system, will I get kill right if I'm podded or is this all still limited to ships and if I loose a ship?
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Performing an action against another player that gets you a Criminal flag will also award a kill-right to that person. This will happen regardless of whether or not the target ship was destroyed.
The way I interpret this is that you will get a killright if your pod is attacked in highsec/lowsec while your pod is not a legal target, as that will give the attacker a Criminal flag.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1193 - 2012-11-08 17:55:55 UTC
Che Biko wrote:
Azrael Dinn wrote:
In the new system, will I get kill right if I'm podded or is this all still limited to ships and if I loose a ship?
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Performing an action against another player that gets you a Criminal flag will also award a kill-right to that person. This will happen regardless of whether or not the target ship was destroyed.
The way I interpret this is that you will get a killright if your pod is attacked in highsec/lowsec while your pod is not a legal target, as that will give the attacker a Criminal flag.


The new system provides two methods to get a killright:

1.) Attack a Pod illegally in highsec or lowsec.
2.) Attack a player illegally in highsec.

You don't have to kill them, you only need attack.
Iwant Urstuff
Iwant Urstuff Corp
#1194 - 2012-11-09 08:21:17 UTC
Hey Masterplan,

You must be the exception that proves the rule?

What happens when you end up in your pod in your own (sov) system, do you still have to wait for the timers to run out to reship?

I just don't like waiting, 15 minutes is an eternity when your waiting. You should really think that over. 15 minutes of waiting is a lot of time to develop something called boredom. Or just say some will get bored of waiting 15 minutes since they can't shoot until that timer runs out.

Can I have urstuff?
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1195 - 2012-11-09 09:10:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Keko Khaan
CCP Gargant wrote:
Team Five-O have been slaving away at unraveling and tweaking the aggression system in EVE Online, generally known as Crimewatch, for almost a year. Now, CCP Masterplan has written a dev blog that goes into the details of the new and improved version of this system.

To read it, click this link.

This change will effect EVE as we know it. Please leave your comments and feedback in this thread.



I was trying these things on test server. I really liked those indicators telling you when you can dock or log safely etc. Also i liked that when you choose something from overview your camera turns there. Saves alot time when you dont have to find it from space by turning your camera manually. Round shaped red aggres icon on agressor was cool also. Not sure if i like those round shaped target icons tho. Sure i can live with them but i dont know.. If their any better...

New damage infos cool aswell..

Some changes were related to "stay on target" dev blog but i think they all related right here :p

Or then im just lazy :Blink
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#1196 - 2012-11-09 10:09:25 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Che Biko wrote:
Azrael Dinn wrote:
In the new system, will I get kill right if I'm podded or is this all still limited to ships and if I loose a ship?
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Performing an action against another player that gets you a Criminal flag will also award a kill-right to that person. This will happen regardless of whether or not the target ship was destroyed.
The way I interpret this is that you will get a killright if your pod is attacked in highsec/lowsec while your pod is not a legal target, as that will give the attacker a Criminal flag.


The new system provides two methods to get a killright:

1.) Attack a Pod illegally in highsec or lowsec.
2.) Attack a player illegally in highsec.

You don't have to kill them, you only need attack.


Sweet...

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm

Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc
#1197 - 2012-11-09 14:45:43 UTC
If the sec hit is front loaded, does that mean each time I attack someone in low sec, I get the full -2% ~ sec hit (the one you get now for 'ganking' someone who doesn't fire back at you) instead of the roughly 10x smaller sec hit you get when they fire back at you?

Also with killirights, someone now gets killrights on you if you attack their SHIP in low sec?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1198 - 2012-11-09 17:54:44 UTC
Iwant Urstuff wrote:
Hey Masterplan,

You must be the exception that proves the rule?

What happens when you end up in your pod in your own (sov) system, do you still have to wait for the timers to run out to reship?

I just don't like waiting, 15 minutes is an eternity when your waiting. You should really think that over. 15 minutes of waiting is a lot of time to develop something called boredom. Or just say some will get bored of waiting 15 minutes since they can't shoot until that timer runs out.

Can I have urstuff?


You misread the blog....

The Re-ship timer is tied to the WEAPONS timer.... which is 60 seconds, NOT 15 minutes... Until recently, all session change timers were 30 seconds (meaning you couldn't docking/jumping/re-ship for 30 seconds), and we managed just fine... I'm pretty sure a 60 second timer is very manageable, and won't ruin your ability to reship and rejoing a decent sized fight.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1199 - 2012-11-09 18:05:46 UTC
Gneeznow wrote:
If the sec hit is front loaded, does that mean each time I attack someone in low sec, I get the full -2% ~ sec hit (the one you get now for 'ganking' someone who doesn't fire back at you) instead of the roughly 10x smaller sec hit you get when they fire back at you?

Also with killirights, someone now gets killrights on you if you attack their SHIP in low sec?


Excellent question about the sec hits.... CCP needs to answer that....

As for you killrights question: Killrights are ONLY generated for CRIMINAL actions...

Criminal actions are:
Illegally Attacking a POD in lowsec or highsec.
Illegally Attacking a SHIP in highsec.

If you attack a ship (not pod) in lowsec, you are NOT committing a criminal act. You will take a sec hit and gain a Suspect.

The implications of this:
A nasty wannabe pirate sitting on a gate can shoot that ship that jumped in, going Suspect.... Suddenly some trap is triggered, and you need to escape.... you now have the option of de-aggressing (if you can survive 60 s) and jumping into highsec... In highsec, you will still be flagged as a suspect, meaning everyone can shoot you... but no NPC police force (like concord) will be coming to shoot you (note: if your sec status is low enough, then you'll draw the normal police action from entering highsec)
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1200 - 2012-11-09 18:17:24 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Gneeznow wrote:
If the sec hit is front loaded, does that mean each time I attack someone in low sec, I get the full -2% ~ sec hit (the one you get now for 'ganking' someone who doesn't fire back at you) instead of the roughly 10x smaller sec hit you get when they fire back at you?

Also with killirights, someone now gets killrights on you if you attack their SHIP in low sec?


Excellent question about the sec hits.... CCP needs to answer that....


The way this works is that for as long as you have a criminal/suspect timer, or are in a limited engagement, the system will remember which offenses you have been punished for. Once your criminal/suspect timer has cleared and you are no longer in any limited engagements, this record is cleared, and you will once again incur sec-status punishments.
The memory tracks who you've offended against, and the level of the offense (ship vs pod). Repeating an offense - ie attacking the same person, perhaps after your guns have reloaded or you've chased him to another location - will not incur a repeated sec-hit.

The history is also passed across jumps, so if you attack someone in one system (and suffer a sec hit), then jump through a gate and attack him again (as long as your timers haven't expired), then you'll be able to continue fighting the same target in a different without another sec hit.

Attacking a pod is a more severe offense than attacking a ship, so you'll still get two sec hits if you shoot his ship and then his pod.

Make sense?

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law