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Dev blog: Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch

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Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#1141 - 2012-10-25 05:37:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Soon Shin
Oh I have read your points, like I said before and I'll say it again:

If 1 minute timer is too long then it can be reduced, but 10-15 seconds that you suggest is simply too short of a timer when you factor in invulnerability that happens when jumping/exiting warp, lag in client-server interaction, session timer, lock timers, etc.

Now 10-15 seconds may seem like a long time in a "perfect world". But unfortunately people can't exactly read minds of other people and register and predict if that person is going to logoff or not.

Those quickly diminishing seconds are important. Receiving information and acting on that information takes time, then you factor that along with delay between what happens on your client and what happens on the server a lot of time is lost.

10-15 seconds in a "realistic world" is a very short amount of time, therefore should not be considered.

For example:

Newbie Freighter pilot hears that the gate is camped just as he jumps. He quickly closes the client during a loading session.

The 10-15 second timer starts after that disconnect, depending on the server load may takes 5-10 seconds to load into the system. Now the campers must lock within the very little time remaining, but they are unable to lock on the target right away due to the target that has not quite left invulnerability state wasting another second or 2.

They then waste another few seconds finally being able to lock the target.

They finally activate their modules, but due to the delay between client and server, 1-2 second is spent relaying that to the server, the client show the target is "pointed" but the server does not.

By then the freighter has disappeared from space before the module activation is received by the server.

As you can see 10-15 seconds is not enough.
Tsukinosuke
Id Est
RAZOR Alliance
#1142 - 2012-10-25 06:28:49 UTC
Soon Shin wrote:
Stop using occassional and seldom real life events to justify things. The game will move on regardless of what happens. HTFU and adapt or die.

A short timer given to everyone is a short timer and opportunity given to logoffski.


"adapt or die" this is natural selection of real life, isnt this?

honestly, can you tell me the number of whom you attacked could menage to escape by logoffksi? all time, per month and per week please.

anti-antagonist "not a friend of enemy of antagonist"
Vegare
Bitslix
Lolsec Fockel
#1143 - 2012-10-25 11:16:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Vegare
Alx Warlord wrote:
Vegare wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:
If someone CURRENTLY INSIDE a dictor bubble attempts to warp then:
* Both the (failed) warper and the bubble owner will get a PVP flag
* The bubble owner will get a Weapons flag.


Does the bit about the weapons flag also apply if the bubble owner has already left the grid/system? Could imagine some ways to use this mechanic to make dictor pilots placing defensive bubbles fall behind when travelling (escaping) with their gang...


The currently inside means that after the probe is released incoming ships will not trigger anything only the currently inside can get/provide flags ....

So you can bubble and jump.... and this will give you some time to escape incoming fleets...


How do you know the dictor pilot must be inside the bubble (as well as the provider) to get the flag. Masterplan does not say so as far as I understand.

My issue was if it will be possible to have one pilot initiate warp in a hostile defensive bubble before jumping with the rest of your gang and continuing pursuit, which would give the escaping dictor a flag in the next system. He would then be trapped for the duration of the timer, unable to keep up with his gang. In effect this would then be very similar to the change supposed earlier (making launching a disruption probe an agressive act). Well at least you can still bubble both sides of a gate with a single dictor.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1144 - 2012-10-25 12:23:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Ganthrithor wrote:
Soon Shin wrote:
The question remains is why are you flying a nyx which is generally an alliance asset without alliance support?

And if there are guys in local are wanting to get you, why not just simply cyno to another system?

I can see your reasons why you would want this, but you put yourself in this situation which you did not find favorable. There were plenty of ways you could have done to make it less so, but simply rely on closing the client to solve your problems is not the way things should be done. Not only is it silly, it does not work. People will know you logged off in that system and will keep coming back, keeping the problem existent for you.

When you fly a super, of course you can expect people to come after your ass and the long align times are an intented mechanic put in by CCP.

Big ships come with big responsibility, I'm sure you've learned that.


If one minute is too long fine, but 10-15 seconds just so you can logoffski your caps rather than warp/jump them is not.

10-15 seconds is far too short, it needs to be longer than that, so it gives a clear message that logoff is completely unviable, not just maybe.



You're wrong about almost everything in this post. I already told you:

- I don't fly supers (or even caps outside of a pve / transport ship role) anymore
- I've been probe-poopsocked more often while flying normal ships (cruisers, etc) than I was flying my Nyx
- Keeping the 60-second timer would be just as bad for people flying small ships as those flying supercaps
- A properly-implemented 15 second timer provides plenty of time to aggress legitimate targets
- Etc

Feel free to keep talking out of your arse, though. First I'm "paranoid and risk-averse" and now I'm "reckless for flying alliance-assets around without a whole alliance's worth of support." Giznitt and I explain to you exactly why a 60-second timer is inappropriate, you continue spewing platitudes about "responsibility" and hardening up. I guess I can't win with you.

You still haven't provided a single example of a scenario in which a 15 second timer that begins with an ewarp would deprive you of a deserved kill, by the way.

I'm rapidly tiring of repeating myself over and over again hoping you'll actually read, comprehend, and incorporate what I say into your replies. I kind of feel like I'm talking to a brick wall, so instead of writing another wordy post, I'll simply refer you to my previous ones and Giznitt's. Between the two of us I feel like we covered the relevant points pretty thoroughly.

I'm thinking that ~30-45s is about right for this timer, no? And yes, you still haven't explained why mid-warp -> ewarp timer burning doesn't work for you when flying subcaps. (I do get your points about caps/supers taking most of the timer to simply align)
Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#1145 - 2012-10-25 17:05:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhavas
Ganthrithor wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
C.) Safe: When you are in space, away from hostiles, and free of all PvP, NPC, Suspect, criminal, and Weapons timers, you should be able to disconnect from the game in a riskless fashion ... if someone is cloaked, in a mid spot, with no timers... they should be able to disconnect safely!!
Totally agree.
+1

Also, for those asking "why can't you log out midwarp and deal with the timer that way (by bolting on more time), the answer is pretty simple IMHO: it's a horrible kludge. It's planning for a workaround to be the norm. Much like the T3 issue, this is an overkill response, building in bad design and asking the majority of the playerbase to "work around" the issue instead of having the decent current experience.

Don't misunderstand me here, I think the logoffski problem is terribad and needs solving. But in the "safe" case Ganthrithor and Malikite outline above, logging off should work EXACTLY as it does today. No timer, no probe-ability, no BS. If you are cloaked, in a POS, by yourself, or on grid with only your corp/fleet/alliance mates and your timers are gone, you should be able to cleanly log out without fear of getting popped after logout.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1146 - 2012-10-25 17:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
Soon Shin wrote:

For example:

Newbie Freighter pilot hears that the gate is camped just as he jumps. He quickly closes the client during a loading session.

The 10-15 second timer starts after that disconnect, depending on the server load may takes 5-10 seconds to load into the system. Now the campers must lock within the very little time remaining, but they are unable to lock on the target right away due to the target that has not quite left invulnerability state wasting another second or 2.

They then waste another few seconds finally being able to lock the target.

They finally activate their modules, but due to the delay between client and server, 1-2 second is spent relaying that to the server, the client show the target is "pointed" but the server does not.

By then the freighter has disappeared from space before the module activation is received by the server.

As you can see 10-15 seconds is not enough.


So in Soon Shin's world where newbies who blind-jump into camped gates but are actually scouted because they know about the hostiles on the other side before they even load grid and freighter's timers can start before they ewarp...

No.

Here's how this scenario actually works:

1. Either the freighter pilot is scouted, in which case they don't jump, or they aren't scouted and do
2. They load grid on the other side of the gate, see hostiles
3. They exit the client
4. If there are whole seconds of lag (which there aren't typically, by the way), nothing happens for a few seconds
5. Server figures out the player has logged off
6. Ewarp begins and 15 second timer begins
7. Campers take ~2 seconds to lock and point freighter
8. Freighter is aggressed and dies in a fire

It's pretty hilarious though that after all your bitching about how "YOU CANT BRING YOUR BAD INTERNET CONNECTION INTO THIS ITS IRRELEVANT" with regard to people talking about legitimate DCs you've now chosen to posit an absurd scenario in which anything any player does takes 2-10 seconds to "register with the server."

Remember, even if your client is significantly delayed (say you really do have a 2k ms ping) from the server's perspective (and those of players with sane pings) things still happen immediately-- as soon as your logoff is communicated to the server, it will start your ewarp (making you visible) and your countdown immediately. Normal players may take another ~100ms to "find out" about it, but you can't really argue that 14.8 seconds isn't enough time to shoot a freighter...

Maybe you're the one who needs to get a real internet connection. Personally I've locked covert-cloaking ships with an RSB'ed interceptor before they've been able to cloak in the past. That's hardly dealing with whole seconds of lag on every action.

Seriously. If you have a 2000ms ping you should probably give up on online games. You can't balance the game based on the need to support players who communicate with London via carrier pigeon.


Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:

I'm thinking that ~30-45s is about right for this timer, no? And yes, you still haven't explained why mid-warp -> ewarp timer burning doesn't work for you when flying subcaps. (I do get your points about caps/supers taking most of the timer to simply align)


Because you can't warp between two distant safespots and log mid warp when your client DCs unintentionally? The system has to handle involuntary DCs as well as "logoffskis." 30-45 seconds is, as mentioned, enough time to probe out a ship and land on it to aggress it. If the timer is 30 seconds, capital ships become deathtraps by default-- bad game design.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1147 - 2012-10-25 18:17:31 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Gizznitt, thanks for your well-considered reply. I wish everyone made use of reasoned explanation!

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
In reducing the despawn timer (to say 15 seconds), it's important that the despawn timer does not count down until your ship attempts its emergency warp. This means if you dc while warping a freighter across system, you won't disappear before landing on the gate. This means if you DC under gate cloak, you wont despawn before breaking cloak. I think this is extremely important to implement!


This is an extremely good point and something that I'd neglected to consider. You're absolutely right that the timer starting before an ewarp would have disastrous consequences as far as the intent of these changes is concerned.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
B.) Semi-Hazardous: I would define this as a situation, where you are in space, and have a timer. Essentially, when in this situation, you MUST use in-game mechanics to get your ship out of harms way. In-game mechanics would be warping to a POS, docking up in a station, warping around until your timers expire, cloaking up, etc... If you are currently (or recently) engaged in any in-space PvE or PvP activity, you should considered in a Semi-Hazardous situation, and should NOT be able to use log-off mechanics to risklessly get Safe. As such, I think NPC timers need to be extended to most Flying in Space PvE activities. If you activate mining lasers, gas harvesters, hacking/salvaging/analyzing modules, scan with a probe, or interacting with the PI system, you should receive the 5 minute NPC timer. (note: Activating a Jump Portal should also give you a timer).


I don't know that its necessary to extend timer application quite this far. I don't think there's a need to extend it to activities like probing or other passive activities that don't affect players or NPCs. Miners are reasonably likely (maybe especially so with the new AI?) to be affected by NPC timers (assuming I understand it right-- being engaged by NPCs yields a timer). I don't think its necessary to make any in-space activity cause NPC flagging.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
C.) Safe: When you are in space, away from hostiles, and free of all PvP, NPC, Suspect, criminal, and Weapons timers, you should be able to disconnect from the game in a riskless fashion. The despawn timer should NOT put a player at risk when leaving the game under this situation. With this in mind, I'm actually going to aggree with Ganthrithor that a 15 second despawn timer is more-less appropriate. Much longer than that, and it becomes very possible for an organized enemy to scan and aggress you before you despawn... and while we all want titan killmails, if someone is cloaked, in a mid spot, with no timers... they should be able to disconnect safely!! I really can't see any good reason why logging off or disconnecting under this scenario should be risky, in any fashion! In truth, most losses in this game should primarily come from piloting error, not an uncontrollable ISP packet loss. As such, the 15 second despawn rate is reasonable, because it's long enough to aggress someone DC'ing when in a hazardous situation, but short enough that you are very unlikely to be aggressed when DC'ing in a Safe Situation.


Totally agree.


Thanks for the compliment!

As for my extension of timers to "most" flying in space activities, perhaps I went a little overboard. Perhaps truly passive activities, like probing, shouldn't be flagged. At the same point in time, I really think that activities like mining should. The new AI aggresses ships based on their threat level and sig size, and I highly doubt a mining barge or exhumer has a significant threat level. If you put a BC on grid near to them, they won't be aggressed, and can use the 15s logoff to get safe while not dealing with any timers. I think we could debate what should or should not qualify, but a simple rule might be better. If it directly provides you isk or materials, it should flag you.
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1148 - 2012-10-25 18:19:50 UTC
The problem is people are using the logoff and emergency warp mechanic as a game mechanic to use as they see fit. It is meant to be an emergency warp so if your connection dies you do not die.

With the new change you will still warp off to a safespot and sit there. Now it will be for 5 minutes, if you are pointed by an NPC you will sit in the site as usual for 5 minutes instead of 2 and if a player agresses you during this time it will be extended to a PvP flag.

So much tears from people who use the logoff emergency mechanics to avoid PvP or having to bounce safes. Long live playing the game to avoid PvP and not abusing logoff mechanics to avoid PvP.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1149 - 2012-10-25 18:22:47 UTC

Quick thought....

Activating a Warfare Link should give you a Weapons Timer... (i.e. You can't dock, jump, eject, etc)

In FW, often pilots leave their fleet boosting alts sitting at zero on a gate. This allows them to immediately exit through the gate if they get in trouble.... Stations can be used in a similar fashion. While they make fun alpha targets to those with enough tornado pilots online, they are essentially performing a service similar to logistics, and should not be able to abuse gates and stations to get a clean escape anytime things go south...

Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1150 - 2012-10-25 18:24:53 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
[quote=Soon Shin]

Here's how this scenario actually works:

1. Either the freighter pilot is scouted, in which case they don't jump, or they aren't scouted and do
2. They load grid on the other side of the gate, see hostiles
3. They exit the client
4. If there are whole seconds of lag (which there aren't typically, by the way), nothing happens for a few seconds
5. Server figures out the player has logged off
6. Ewarp begins and 15 second timer begins
7. Campers take ~2 seconds to lock and point freighter
8. Freighter is aggressed and dies in a fire



this is exactly how it SHOULD work, why should the freighter pilot survive by exploiting log-off mechanics?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1151 - 2012-10-25 18:52:33 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
[quote=Soon Shin]

Here's how this scenario actually works:

1. Either the freighter pilot is scouted, in which case they don't jump, or they aren't scouted and do
2. They load grid on the other side of the gate, see hostiles
3. They exit the client
4. If there are whole seconds of lag (which there aren't typically, by the way), nothing happens for a few seconds
5. Server figures out the player has logged off
6. Ewarp begins and 15 second timer begins
7. Campers take ~2 seconds to lock and point freighter
8. Freighter is aggressed and dies in a fire



this is exactly how it SHOULD work, why should the freighter pilot survive by exploiting log-off mechanics?


The ability to gain a renewable PvP Aggression flag after you log off when you did NOT have one prior is very new from CCP...

As such, the main discussion is how long the despawn timer should be given this change...

Ganthrithor requested it be reduced from 60 seconds (which is long enough to scan down and attack most ships in the game) to 15 seconds (which is too short to scan and aggress a ship under most circumstances).

I think 15 seconds is fine, so long as the logoff timer does NOT start counting down until your ship attempts it's emergence warp. Otherwise people could just despawning while in warping across a system, or perhaps even despawning while under gate cloak.

Soon Shin feels 15 seconds is too short.... and want's it increased...
--- The whole point of the logoff timer is to prevent people from logoff/despawning to avoid an immediate threat. I do not consider a threat that is in system, but not on grid, an immediate threat, and as such, would suggest the despawn timer should be short enough that a person cannot scan you down and attack you, even if they have probes out... but it should be long enough, that they can target and aggress you if you do dc on grid with them.

Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1152 - 2012-10-25 19:30:56 UTC
@Gizznitt and anyone else who doesnt know.

One of the primary reasons wormholers are often for this change is because people in WH's run sites with capitals and no support. Up untill now they just log off whenever a new sig spawns in their system (indicating a wormhole) they stay on grid untill their siege/triage timer ends and then they disapear. The inclusion of a mechanic to firsly give them NPC aggression so they do not disapear within 5 minutes and secondly to extend it to a PvP timer if a player agresses them is necessary to kill such capitals. A subcap fleet cannot get to them and kill them before they disapear, it is literally impossible.

Since people started abusing this mechanic they became impossible to kill while running sleeper sites even while pointed by sleepers and getting shot by 20-30 battleships.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1153 - 2012-10-25 22:01:30 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
@Gizznitt and anyone else who doesnt know.

One of the primary reasons wormholers are often for this change is because people in WH's run sites with capitals and no support. Up untill now they just log off whenever a new sig spawns in their system (indicating a wormhole) they stay on grid untill their siege/triage timer ends and then they disapear. The inclusion of a mechanic to firsly give them NPC aggression so they do not disapear within 5 minutes and secondly to extend it to a PvP timer if a player agresses them is necessary to kill such capitals. A subcap fleet cannot get to them and kill them before they disapear, it is literally impossible.

Since people started abusing this mechanic they became impossible to kill while running sleeper sites even while pointed by sleepers and getting shot by 20-30 battleships.


This situation is already solved by both the NPC flag and the ability to trigger PvP flags after the target has logged out. If someone was ratting in their dread, they're stuck for five minutes after logging even if you don't shoot them. If you shoot them, the timer is essentially indefinite.

This is absolutely fine.

Gizznitt and I were just arguing with Soon Shin about the amount of time after logoff during which players should be PvP-flaggable. We both think 15 seconds (subject to Gizznitt's restriction on the timer beginning with your ewarp and no sooner) allows plenty of time for flagging people who try and control-q to dodge combat, while not allowing enough time for people to probe people out in safespots and aggress them when they go to log out or DC due to connection issues.

That's all. Believe me, I've been robbed of plenty of kills in the past by people control-q'ing after jumping into a camp or landing on a cyno beacon next to a rapier-- I'm all for the changes generally. They just need a little tweaking.
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1154 - 2012-10-25 22:17:17 UTC
The situation is not at all solved unless the NPC flag can be converted into a PvP at any time during the NPC flag eg 5 minutes.

Otherwise capitals just log out and cannot be agressed quick enough in order to stop them disappearing.

If i jump into a wormhole and see capitals in a site, the fastest way to get to them is to combat them down usually, this takes about 1 minute to scan and then additional time to warp to them and aggress them. Aprox 2 minutes on a very good prober (like myself) Bearing in mind the wormhole sig in their systems spawns as soon as i initiate warp to it which gives them another minute so it takes about 3 minutes for a perfect skilled, virtue set prober who knows what their doing like myself to agress them.

So the timer needs to be atleast 3 minutes for it to even be possible to agress them (let alone try to kill them) 5 minutes is a much more reasonable amount of time to expect a non-perfect skills, non-virtue set prober to have any chance of aggressing them.

I was hoping for the 15 minute timer but i understand this is too high for legitimate disconnects.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1155 - 2012-10-25 23:28:20 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
The situation is not at all solved unless the NPC flag can be converted into a PvP at any time during the NPC flag eg 5 minutes.

Otherwise capitals just log out and cannot be agressed quick enough in order to stop them disappearing.

If i jump into a wormhole and see capitals in a site, the fastest way to get to them is to combat them down usually, this takes about 1 minute to scan and then additional time to warp to them and aggress them. Aprox 2 minutes on a very good prober (like myself) Bearing in mind the wormhole sig in their systems spawns as soon as i initiate warp to it which gives them another minute so it takes about 3 minutes for a perfect skilled, virtue set prober who knows what their doing like myself to agress them.

So the timer needs to be atleast 3 minutes for it to even be possible to agress them (let alone try to kill them) 5 minutes is a much more reasonable amount of time to expect a non-perfect skills, non-virtue set prober to have any chance of aggressing them.

I was hoping for the 15 minute timer but i understand this is too high for legitimate disconnects.


They could just allow PvP flags to be applied during the 5 minute PvE timer. 5m is plenty of time to probe someone out and aggro them. I wouldn't be adverse to it.
Schwein Hosen
DuckPus Fightclub
#1156 - 2012-10-26 03:08:07 UTC
Don't know if this was brought up already, but I'm not looking through 58 pages to find out...

Concerning the new feature where anyone can kill you if you steal from a can. Please make sure that it does not count as stealing when you are at war with the entity that you 'stole' from. Currently, when I blow up someone else's pos modules and cans drop, it counts as stealing if I take the loot. I think we can all agree that it would be really dumb if everyone could now attack me because I looted what should be my loot in this case.

Please read this, and please make sure this gets into the patch!

Thanks,
-Schwein
Green Looter
Sparkling wine
#1157 - 2012-10-26 08:02:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Green Looter
I have a some questions:

If you attack or kill an innocent ship in low sec and you get the suspect flag will you still take a "negative standing" hit on your personal sec-status like you do now?




And will the security status system work like it does now

Players with better than -2.0 can enter any system
Players with -2.0 or worse cannot enter 1.0 systems
Players with -2.5 or worse cannot enter 0.9 systems
Players with -3.0 or worse cannot enter 0.8 systems
Players with -3.5 or worse cannot enter 0.7 systems
Players with -4.0 or worse cannot enter 0.6 systems
Players with -4.5 or worse cannot enter 0.5 systems

and so on, or will that be changed?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1158 - 2012-10-26 09:05:28 UTC
Schwein Hosen wrote:
Don't know if this was brought up already, but I'm not looking through 58 pages to find out...

Concerning the new feature where anyone can kill you if you steal from a can. Please make sure that it does not count as stealing when you are at war with the entity that you 'stole' from. Currently, when I blow up someone else's pos modules and cans drop, it counts as stealing if I take the loot. I think we can all agree that it would be really dumb if everyone could now attack me because I looted what should be my loot in this case.

Please read this, and please make sure this gets into the patch!

Thanks,
-Schwein



If someone is a legal target for you, you can steal from them to your hearts content, without going suspect.

Legal targets include: Criminals. Suspects. War Targets. Corp Mates.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1159 - 2012-10-26 09:10:16 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Oxandrolone wrote:
The situation is not at all solved unless the NPC flag can be converted into a PvP at any time during the NPC flag eg 5 minutes.

Otherwise capitals just log out and cannot be agressed quick enough in order to stop them disappearing.

If i jump into a wormhole and see capitals in a site, the fastest way to get to them is to combat them down usually, this takes about 1 minute to scan and then additional time to warp to them and aggress them. Aprox 2 minutes on a very good prober (like myself) Bearing in mind the wormhole sig in their systems spawns as soon as i initiate warp to it which gives them another minute so it takes about 3 minutes for a perfect skilled, virtue set prober who knows what their doing like myself to agress them.

So the timer needs to be atleast 3 minutes for it to even be possible to agress them (let alone try to kill them) 5 minutes is a much more reasonable amount of time to expect a non-perfect skills, non-virtue set prober to have any chance of aggressing them.

I was hoping for the 15 minute timer but i understand this is too high for legitimate disconnects.


They could just allow PvP flags to be applied during the 5 minute PvE timer. 5m is plenty of time to probe someone out and aggro them. I wouldn't be adverse to it.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2079573#post2079573

Specifically
Quote:

* NPC flag timeout will be lowered to 5 minutes. NPC flags are not further extended after log-off.
* PVP flags CAN be created and further extended after log-off even if the owner did not have a PVP flag at the time of disconnect.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#1160 - 2012-10-26 10:53:45 UTC
I still don't like the current war mechanics (namely how the ally, mutual war, and joining/leaving alliance mechanics work) or the global suspect flag for canflipping. It feels like they're attempting to make fighting in hisec much more risky. Pro-tip CCP: The severe lack of risk in high sec isn't on the side of people who start wars, steal, or otherwise attempt to engage other players.

The gradual shift to high sec being hello kitty online disappoints me.