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[Proposal] Fix Wardec Exploits

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Zwo Zateki
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-10-20 18:17:04 UTC
Remove non-mutual wardecs altogether. Paying wardec fee is bribing CONCORD. I don't know how THIS is supposed to fit into highsec lore and essence.

http://cvmkr.com/R4JG
DarhtVaderrin
Cargo Operations
Come in and freak out
#42 - 2012-10-22 08:50:52 UTC
My suggestion would be to rebuild the war system so that it is the defender Corp. also not allowed to join an alliance, so you can prevent the Free duplicate wars, further in the case of a mutual war,
Members of the Defenders Corp. does not leave the Corporation. To prevent that the old chars parked in the Corporation so that the war can be kept on the run.
If you already take a mutual war so you should also take the blood flowing. With usage of the option of mutual war, should the war until after the period of 7 days, can be removed again.

and check this lolz Mail from my mutal Target
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Von: FleetAdmiralHarper
Gesendet: 2012.10.22 04:53
An: DarhtVaderrin,

so i see you left dabrid. and you know i was being serious when i said i would destroy your corp.

NOW its good that you left dabrid. how ever. you still need to pay me 2.5b, i wont have you publically apologise for your insolence, i think you losing your corp was an adequate substitute.

after i get the 2.5b i will let you drop the war from CINR and accept your surrender.
as an added bonus ill see if i can get 1 or 2 corps off you : )

i cant get them all, because some are random. but i can pull atleast 2 off you.
if not ill just hunt you, and your members and bring war and chaos to your new corps =) fun and lulz for every one =)))))))!!!


what are your intentions?
____________________
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#43 - 2012-10-22 10:48:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Reppyk
DarhtVaderrin wrote:
My suggestion would be to rebuild the war system so that it is the defender Corp. also not allowed to join an alliance, so you can prevent the Free duplicate wars, further in the case of a mutual war,
This is bad and you should feel bad.
Corps in a wardec should be able to join an alliance. CCP isn't allowing it for agressors because :game design failure: but removing it for the defender is even worst.


Easy fix : remove the mutual wardec mechanism, lower the wardec fees (so RvB can still pewpew without paying billions of isks each month) and allow a defender to pay the wardec fee itself (so if you want to counter-grief the "griefers", feel free to do so) maybe at a lower cost [half cost ?].

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
DarhtVaderrin
Cargo Operations
Come in and freak out
#44 - 2012-10-22 11:44:51 UTC  |  Edited by: DarhtVaderrin
This is bad and you should feel bad.
Corps in a wardec should be able to join an alliance. CCP isn't allowing it for agressors because :game design failure: but removing it for the defender is even worst.

are you ******* kidding me ? i have many wars not targets all targtes jion a alliance left the alliance and leave the corp , this is not a war this is bullshit all wt`s go into a npc corp and i can not jion a alliance you tell me this is a good wardec mechanism ?
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#45 - 2012-10-23 21:20:41 UTC  |  Edited by: The Zerg Overmind
With the toggling mutual option, the right click mutual menu doesn't function at all. This has led to much confusion for people that leave Dec Shield. The only option that does work is to use the drop down menu at the far right side and to uncheck the mutual box:

http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/1210/togglingUnmutual.jpg

The same thing goes for declaring wars mutual, the right click option doesn't work.


Inflated wardec costs...
When a corp leaves an alliance and sets their wars to non-mutual it's not supposed to contribute to increased wardec costs on the part of the aggressor (aka the octopus defense).

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=42269

"As before, the number of non-mutual wars the aggressor has declared acts as a multiplier (for each war). New wars are created now when a corporation leaves an alliance (to get rid of the dec shield exploit), but these new wars are not counted as cost multiplier"

Right now these wars ARE counted as a cost multiplier. So the system is not implemented as intended here either.

Burn Highsec Griefers
Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad
#46 - 2012-10-24 00:27:39 UTC
Being brought into the Dec Shield mutual war circle jerk by a Dec Shield Ambassador corp has educated us on how broken the new war system is. Please fix this broken mechanic.

Also being told by a GM this is working is intended is pretty silly, I'd be really surprised if they didn't fix this in december.

PIZZA CEO
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#47 - 2012-10-24 09:56:35 UTC
Junko Sideswipe wrote:
Being brought into the Dec Shield mutual war circle jerk by a Dec Shield Ambassador corp has educated us on how broken the new war system is. Please fix this broken mechanic.

Also being told by a GM this is working is intended is pretty silly, I'd be really surprised if they didn't fix this in december.


Well be ready to surprised then. Considering the mess he made, CCP SoniClover probably isn't up to task.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2012-10-24 14:10:13 UTC
Zwo Zateki wrote:
Remove non-mutual wardecs altogether. Paying wardec fee is bribing CONCORD. I don't know how THIS is supposed to fit into highsec lore and essence.


I look at it as being similar to obtaining a Letter of Marque and Reprisal from a government here on Earth. Basically, you're getting Concord's permission to be a little naughty, and as long as you do so within the rules they give you, they won't OMGWTFBBQPWN you for it.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#49 - 2012-10-25 08:47:42 UTC
The message for booting corps from alliance conveys incorrect information as well:

"If you kick this corporation out of the alliance they will still be in all wars, that are currently ongoing for the alliance. The wars will be copied over to the corporation being kicked out and they will be automatically retracted. Are you sure you want to throw them out?"

The wars are not automatically retracted. That's the old system that auto retracted the wars. The text message needs to be updated.

http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/1210/retracted.jpg

Burn Highsec Griefers
Viktor Fel
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-10-26 20:01:22 UTC
Fixing the DEC Shield/War Dec exploits should be a priority I believe.

Who is Viktor Fel?

Killboard
Tetsuigablm
Channel Six News
#51 - 2012-10-27 10:18:18 UTC
When the leader of the abusers is saying it needs to get fixes, it should probably get fixed, just saying, get on it ccp, seriously... filed a petition today, the only way they are going to wake up is if we stand together with one voice

EVERYONE file petitions, 1-5 a day is swept under the rug
make it hundreds, thousands, and they will listen.

Or they can give up my corps sub fees, and im sure others as well, its up to them really.
NinjaTurtle
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2012-10-27 20:50:50 UTC
+1
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-10-28 11:13:14 UTC
I wonder how long it will take CCP to fix the freaking game.

Right now the corp that decced someone and got into infinite war bug cant join alliance ever.
But hey we will got round HUD targets , that surely counts for something ??
BigBelly Jackles
Draconian Geological Industries
#54 - 2012-10-29 02:11:52 UTC
Our Alliance has been forced into a war with Dec Shield. We got into this mess after War Decing a bot mining corporation. After bumping their ships, after mining over top of them for months, they still bot. We thought about ganking them, but didnt want to hurt our security status. A war dec seemed like the logical choice. Now the war will end for them, they will go back to botting and we are stuck in a war we don't want to be in.

I have read the proposed changes and I think they make sense. We should not be forced into a never ending war like this.

While I have been typing, a corporation just left Dec Shield and we are now at war with someone we never declared war on(octopus).

These mechanics need to change. I'm afraid that even if CCP bans these bot miners, our war (which should be over at that point) will continue and cause our young member to leave us and move on.

The more pressure we can put on this issue, the better chance we have of getting something changed.

Please support Dec Shields drive to make a change.

BigBelly
Malchristus
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-10-30 01:57:02 UTC
Where are the CSM and the Devs on this?

This is the singularly most abused and broken continual gameplay mechanic in the game and yet they are never anywhere to be seen on the topic.

+1 to the OP -10 to the CSM (we still have one right?) and -100 AGAIN to CCP for trying to achieve one goal and by not thinking it through property, AGAIN, achieving exactly the opposite effect AGAIN!
Malchristus
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2012-10-30 01:59:57 UTC
Malchristus wrote:
Where are the CSM and the Devs on this?

This is the singularly most abused and broken continual gameplay mechanic in the game and yet they are never anywhere to be seen on the topic.

+1 to the OP -10 to the CSM (we still have one right?) and -100 AGAIN to CCP for trying to achieve one goal and by not thinking it through property, AGAIN, achieving exactly the opposite effect AGAIN!



BTW I don't want to walk around in stations, fight a fail fight on a PS3 or see pretty trails coming out of the back of my ship, I just want you to fix what is broken NOW before you go on to make something else that will be broken.
Gate Green
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-10-30 22:55:47 UTC
I happen to agree at the moment that the "aggressor" needs to be able to shut down a wardec like this. I will +1 dec shield for catching U'K in the wardec, and -infinity to CCP on two fronts:

1. Allowing this to happen in the first place.
2. Being unable to deal with the wardec as a harassment complaint, when it's clearly stated, that this is mechanic abuse, done deliberately, nothing can be done by the GM's. Gogo CCP!
Tinja Soikutsu
Perkone
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-10-31 00:16:06 UTC
Yeah, month and a half old here, been away from a week and about to log in, find out that the FW based wardec we had going has now gone into a meltdown of decshield, with the original party STILL not even at mutual war with us, and now I can't even THINK of undocking unless I want to deal with every ******** who uses decshield for lulzkills gunning for me whenever I undock at any time, in any ship, anywhere for any reason.

Yeah ******* good game CCP.
Ragnar STS
Arcane Odyssey
Electus Matari
#59 - 2012-10-31 00:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ragnar STS
+1 to OP for actually working out the mechanics and finding the exploit
-infinity to CCP for not contemplating this mechanic

In general I like shooting at people and being shot at. This is kind of dumb though. Ragnar can stand....but my $$ paying alt-army might lapse for a while come december if they can't undock.

Cry

Though I do look forward to the bounty system going into action on the OP. :)
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#60 - 2012-10-31 12:23:23 UTC
It seems it's still possible to leave dead corps floating all over the place, including inside an alliance.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/corp/Wong_Wing_Corporation

This could potentially be very useful for us, as we could keep a bunch of dead corps in alliance to maintain majority vote for executorship, without actually dedicating any characters to it. We'll have to test whether or not their votes actually still contribute to ownership of an alliance...

The procedure for re-creating this bug is to have a corp apply to join the alliance, then have them close out the corp, and it will join the alliance as a dead corp. Downtime does not seem to wipe the corp from existence.

Burn Highsec Griefers