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A Few Modest Questions for CCP Sreegs

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#21 - 2012-10-08 20:17:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Would you say, based on your response to the above, the threat of ganking was a deterrent to potential mining bot operators?


As a human who partakes in mining, I would expect that the threat of ganking has a greater impact on the population of human miners. Thus I would expect that the introduction of the new barges has increased the population of human miners.

The claim of "fighting bots" has only ever been a rationalisation on the part of the gankers. Just own up to the fact that you enjoy hunting the lowest form of prey in the game.


The vast bulk of kills when BAT Country did the caldari ice interdiction were bots. Its very simple to pick them out just by the way they act. The easyest is the pod that thinks its still in a barge and keepson warping to and from the station. A shocking amount of them would reship and go back to mining while we were still active. I think the record was 7 barges from one guy in a single day.

The scale of mining bots is shocking right now but they are by far not the only large scale operations going on.

Not to mention that it's impossible to try to understand botting from a human perspective in the first place.

There's nobody home, McFly.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#22 - 2012-10-08 20:28:58 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Thanks in advance for any responses you can provide.


Now, would you like him to create a dev blog with generic ramble (and herd it through corporate filters) or would you like to to keep his mouth (keyboard) shut and get on with his work of actually hitting people where it hurts (for them)?

If anything, the security team needs a PR member with the job to create Dev Blogs and provide fake info ;)

Oh, have I just outed Sreegs? ;)

A casual answer on the forum will do. If there are more bots being caught mining now, that's that.

If there aren't any more, or in fact less, that's that too. I don't really intend to dispute facts.

Basically the only points I'd argue with Sreegs would be interpretive, such as if he says more bots are being caught now, but that doesn't have anything to do with the buff to mining barges and exhumers.

I would probably just happily accept the data, though, in spite of the interpretation which will obviously stand on its own merit, should it be forthcoming.

TL;DR: I sincerely believe Sreegs has nothing to lose by stating if there's a change in trends or not, and what he thinks about it.


The problem (I think) is that Sreegs simply can do casual answers on the forums.

Because if he did it would get parroted and twisted on every wannabe newssite (as in mitts or ev24).

And most likely dissected and analysed on at least 19 different blogs (and Jester would most likely find at least three ways himself :)).

So I don't think that Sreegs actually can't just lob out some random figures and hope that people will be happy.

Whatever he writes will be seen as Canon from CCP.

So, TL;DR: He has a lot to lose by stating a change in trends unless he can whip up serious hard data.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#23 - 2012-10-08 20:31:53 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Thanks in advance for any responses you can provide.


Now, would you like him to create a dev blog with generic ramble (and herd it through corporate filters) or would you like to to keep his mouth (keyboard) shut and get on with his work of actually hitting people where it hurts (for them)?

If anything, the security team needs a PR member with the job to create Dev Blogs and provide fake info ;)

Oh, have I just outed Sreegs? ;)

A casual answer on the forum will do. If there are more bots being caught mining now, that's that.

If there aren't any more, or in fact less, that's that too. I don't really intend to dispute facts.

Basically the only points I'd argue with Sreegs would be interpretive, such as if he says more bots are being caught now, but that doesn't have anything to do with the buff to mining barges and exhumers.

I would probably just happily accept the data, though, in spite of the interpretation which will obviously stand on its own merit, should it be forthcoming.

TL;DR: I sincerely believe Sreegs has nothing to lose by stating if there's a change in trends or not, and what he thinks about it.


The problem (I think) is that Sreegs simply can do casual answers on the forums.

Because if he did it would get parroted and twisted on every wannabe newssite (as in mitts or ev24).

And most likely dissected and analysed on at least 19 different blogs (and Jester would most likely find at least three ways himself :)).

So I don't think that Sreegs actually can't just lob out some random figures and hope that people will be happy.

Whatever he writes will be seen as Canon from CCP.

So, TL;DR: He has a lot to lose by stating a change in trends unless he can whip up serious hard data.

Only if the data presents a very weak case for CCP does he have anything to lose.

And even then, it seems it would be in CCP's best interest to address this straightaway rather than skirt it.

After all, what's good for the goose, etc. Besides, simple data without interpretation would be just fine.

Facts should be facts, otherwise we can't discuss anything but theorycraft and rumor.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#24 - 2012-10-08 20:45:39 UTC
Snip since we're getting gritty and people can scroll back
Darth Gustav wrote:

Only if the data presents a very weak case for CCP does he have anything to lose.

And even then, it seems it would be in CCP's best interest to address this straightaway rather than skirt it.

After all, what's good for the goose, etc. Besides, simple data without interpretation would be just fine.

Facts should be facts, otherwise we can't discuss anything but theorycraft and rumor.


There's very few cases of data that are absolutely conclusive (except in mathematics).

CCP has every reason to not to hand out actual figures because they can be used to compare their success to other games more or less actual facts.

So there's a good reason why PR/Market doesn't like down and gritty people talk numbers.

And it's because no-one else is that stupid.

I do agree that facts should be facts, and everything else is theorycraft (also known as marketing).

However, despite Sreegs being (a hopefully former) Goon, I don't rate him as low as actually working in marketing.

TL:DR
Facts are Facts.
Marketing isn't related.
And people not in marketing will not be allowed to speak for any company unless approved by the same.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
CCP Stillman
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2012-10-08 21:44:37 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
CCP Sreegs, has there been a substantial shift in the numbers of high-sec bots you're catching since the release of the mining barge buff?

Would you say, based on your response to the above, the threat of ganking was a deterrent to potential mining bot operators?

If you aren't seeing more bots in high-sec and the numbers have changed substantially since Fanfest, is it reasonable for players to ask for an update? I ask this because the new demographics for botting may explain how a less time-sensitive lower-risk form of AFK PVE is healthier for the game in high-sec than its equivalent elsewhere.

Thanks in advance for any responses you can provide.

I gave a presentation about our progress at EVE Vegas on Saturday. But it was pointed out to me afterwards that I forgot to include the breaking by region that I had on my machine at work.

I don't know what the answer is though at present. I'll have a look at the data when I get home though. But no promise though.

Just a random dude in Team Security.
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-10-08 21:54:36 UTC
Thanks, but I wasn't at Eve Vegas.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#27 - 2012-10-08 22:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
captain foivos wrote:
Thanks, but I wasn't at Eve Vegas.

Most EVE Vegas presentations come out as devblogs sooner rather then later.

http://lowseclifestyle.blogspot.com./

Is a good location to find otu what was sayed.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#28 - 2012-10-08 22:26:23 UTC
CCP Stillman wrote:

I gave a presentation about our progress at EVE Vegas on Saturday. But it was pointed out to me afterwards that I forgot to include the breaking by region that I had on my machine at work.

I don't know what the answer is though at present. I'll have a look at the data when I get home though. But no promise though.


And might we guess that the data you released was "average" and that you had full freedom to discuss about those average figures?

Been there, done that, been on the next tier to decide what level of average is average enough too ;)

People please, continue to chase CCP for for data.

But don't chase Sreegs, Stillman or the rest of their team.

If you had any idea of their job you'd know that they want to talk facts.

But often is not useful, and sometimes not allowed.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
CCP Stillman
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2012-10-08 22:44:31 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
Thanks, but I wasn't at Eve Vegas.

The sessions were streamed on eve-radio. I imagine they'll be released later.

Just a random dude in Team Security.
CCP Stillman
C C P
C C P Alliance
#30 - 2012-10-08 22:45:42 UTC
Salpun wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
Thanks, but I wasn't at Eve Vegas.

Most EVE Vegas presentations come out as devblogs sooner rather then later.

http://lowseclifestyle.blogspot.com./

Is a good location to find otu what was sayed.

I can write it into a dev blog too. But please give us some time, as I'm currently in Vegas still and Sreegs has his hands full right now.

Just a random dude in Team Security.
CCP Stillman
C C P
C C P Alliance
#31 - 2012-10-08 22:48:07 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:

I gave a presentation about our progress at EVE Vegas on Saturday. But it was pointed out to me afterwards that I forgot to include the breaking by region that I had on my machine at work.

I don't know what the answer is though at present. I'll have a look at the data when I get home though. But no promise though.


And might we guess that the data you released was "average" and that you had full freedom to discuss about those average figures?

Been there, done that, been on the next tier to decide what level of average is average enough too ;)

People please, continue to chase CCP for for data.

But don't chase Sreegs, Stillman or the rest of their team.

If you had any idea of their job you'd know that they want to talk facts.

But often is not useful, and sometimes not allowed.

I'm the only one with the data. I do all the backend work, data gathering and analytics. So if you want data, I'll be the one to crunch it, be it Sreegs or myself that publishes it.

Again, I'll look at the data and see if it makes sense to discuss. But not until I'm back in the office later this week and have time to discuss it with Sreegs, who's kinda busy this month.

Just a random dude in Team Security.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#32 - 2012-10-08 22:54:13 UTC
CCP Stillman wrote:
Salpun wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
Thanks, but I wasn't at Eve Vegas.

Most EVE Vegas presentations come out as devblogs sooner rather then later.

http://lowseclifestyle.blogspot.com./

Is a good location to find otu what was sayed.

I can write it into a dev blog too. But please give us some time, as I'm currently in Vegas still and Sreegs has his hands full right now.


Dead prostitutes? I am guessing.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#33 - 2012-10-09 02:18:18 UTC
CCP Stillman wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:

I gave a presentation about our progress at EVE Vegas on Saturday. But it was pointed out to me afterwards that I forgot to include the breaking by region that I had on my machine at work.

I don't know what the answer is though at present. I'll have a look at the data when I get home though. But no promise though.


And might we guess that the data you released was "average" and that you had full freedom to discuss about those average figures?

Been there, done that, been on the next tier to decide what level of average is average enough too ;)

People please, continue to chase CCP for for data.

But don't chase Sreegs, Stillman or the rest of their team.

If you had any idea of their job you'd know that they want to talk facts.

But often is not useful, and sometimes not allowed.

I'm the only one with the data. I do all the backend work, data gathering and analytics. So if you want data, I'll be the one to crunch it, be it Sreegs or myself that publishes it.

Again, I'll look at the data and see if it makes sense to discuss. But not until I'm back in the office later this week and have time to discuss it with Sreegs, who's kinda busy this month.

Our sincere thanks for your attention and your efforts. Hopefully the data isn't too controversial!

An informed player, after all. Blink

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#34 - 2012-10-09 13:38:14 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:

I gave a presentation about our progress at EVE Vegas on Saturday. But it was pointed out to me afterwards that I forgot to include the breaking by region that I had on my machine at work.

I don't know what the answer is though at present. I'll have a look at the data when I get home though. But no promise though.


And might we guess that the data you released was "average" and that you had full freedom to discuss about those average figures?

Been there, done that, been on the next tier to decide what level of average is average enough too ;)

People please, continue to chase CCP for for data.

But don't chase Sreegs, Stillman or the rest of their team.

If you had any idea of their job you'd know that they want to talk facts.

But often is not useful, and sometimes not allowed.

I'm the only one with the data. I do all the backend work, data gathering and analytics. So if you want data, I'll be the one to crunch it, be it Sreegs or myself that publishes it.

Again, I'll look at the data and see if it makes sense to discuss. But not until I'm back in the office later this week and have time to discuss it with Sreegs, who's kinda busy this month.

Our sincere thanks for your attention and your efforts. Hopefully the data isn't too controversial!

An informed player, after all. Blink

This indeed.

Thanks for the work, any eventual data and your willingness to discuss the issues with us.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#35 - 2012-10-09 18:09:04 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:

I gave a presentation about our progress at EVE Vegas on Saturday. But it was pointed out to me afterwards that I forgot to include the breaking by region that I had on my machine at work.

I don't know what the answer is though at present. I'll have a look at the data when I get home though. But no promise though.


And might we guess that the data you released was "average" and that you had full freedom to discuss about those average figures?

Been there, done that, been on the next tier to decide what level of average is average enough too ;)

People please, continue to chase CCP for for data.

But don't chase Sreegs, Stillman or the rest of their team.

If you had any idea of their job you'd know that they want to talk facts.

But often is not useful, and sometimes not allowed.

I'm the only one with the data. I do all the backend work, data gathering and analytics. So if you want data, I'll be the one to crunch it, be it Sreegs or myself that publishes it.

Again, I'll look at the data and see if it makes sense to discuss. But not until I'm back in the office later this week and have time to discuss it with Sreegs, who's kinda busy this month.

Our sincere thanks for your attention and your efforts. Hopefully the data isn't too controversial!

An informed player, after all. Blink

This indeed.

Thanks for the work, any eventual data and your willingness to discuss the issues with us.

The more time goes by, the more I'm on pins and needles for the results. CCP Stillman, be the hero!

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#36 - 2012-10-10 05:50:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
I don't mean to look like a jerk, but if you can't give the data, can you at least say, "We can't give this data?"

Knowing data on it exists is killing me.

Thanks very much.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#37 - 2012-10-10 06:17:25 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
I don't mean to look like a jerk, but if you can't give the data, can you at least say, "We can't give this data?"

Knowing data on it exists is killing me.

Thanks very much.


I think you might want to wait until he gets back to his computer at work, as he said he is still in Vegas, and he left out data that was on his computer at work. There is also much crunching involved apparently; I'm not sure if it's bones, or chips, but there's crunching.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#38 - 2012-10-10 06:19:51 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
I don't mean to look like a jerk, but if you can't give the data, can you at least say, "We can't give this data?"

Knowing data on it exists is killing me.

Thanks very much.


I think you might want to wait until he gets back to his computer at work, as he said he is still in Vegas, and he left out data that was on his computer at work. There is also much crunching involved apparently; I'm not sure if it's bones, or chips, but there's crunching.

Quite a fair point. Apologies.

I didn't realize Vegas was still going, and noticed it had been a bit.

Once again, thank you CCP Stillman, and I apologize for my abruptness. Smile

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#39 - 2012-11-15 16:42:37 UTC
Bump.

Time went by, the relevancy of the information hasn't elapsed.

Did the mining buff yield more botters in high-sec ice belts?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Sgt Napalm
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-11-15 17:33:08 UTC
Sadly, Stillman and Streggs were never seen again after Vegas.