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The PVP and NPC flags last for 15 minutes, but can be extended if you are still being aggressed. The only thing those flags affect is what happens to your ship when you log off. Don't use logging off as a defense mechanism, take your ship out of harm's way before logging off. Fit a cloak, make a safe, have a POS in-system, dock up, etc... I'm pretty sure the log-off warp will still work (as long as you're not pointed) so not much will be changing from now except for the length of time.

Just this:

Today no one, including the victim of the theft, can touch the container. Now the victim of the theft can simply take his stuff and put it back into his own can and no one can shoot him for doing so.

I gotta agree with Tippia here. The whole point of mission baiting is to get the runner to attack you first so that when you emerge victorious Concord dosen't show up and you don't get a GCC. If the ship you are baiting the runner with is not the ship with which you plan to stomp him, why are you fitting weapons or EW to it? It seems to me you'd want your bait ship to have a good speed tank and large shield buffer so that you can evade most incoming DPS and soak the few lucky shots that get through until your pownmobile arrives.

With the proposed system, it you pull a W-flag before the runner aggresses you then you've already failed your bait attempt and have made the decision to attack. If you pull a W-flag after the runner has aggressed you then you have made the decision to defend with the ship you are flying. In both cases, you have chosen to commit to combat with your bait ship for at least 60 seconds.

What you seem to want is a system that allows you pose as little threat as possible to encourage your target to commit to combat. However, once you have committed to combat in a clearly inferior ship you want to be able to evade the consequences of that decision. You want to switch to something more effective immediately and without delay even though you made the choice to engage in a clearly over matched ship. Remind me again who is the carebear in this situation? I find the distinction to be unclear.

Exactly.
Its pretty clear that Tippia doesn't understand how mission baiting works.

Carebears won't shoot at a Hurricane (or any ship that looks threatening.)
The will, however, shoot at frigates, especially frigates with weak sounding names.
(IE, Merlin is nice and safe sounding. Worm, likewise. 'Reaper' = not so good.)

Unfortunately frigates don't have enough firepower to break CNRs and other PVE ships that tank thousands of DPS.
Changing into a new ship is the only way you can trap them AND finish them.

Its not about 'committing to combat for at least 60 seconds.' Ninja frigates can tank them, but not break them.
Its about maintaining tackle, and bringing enough firepower ot the field to break a considerable PVE tank.
Once carebears realize that they can't kill the frigate thats warp scrambling them - they try to escape or log off.
In addition, Crimewatch provides an ample opportunity for them to call for assistance - from ANYONE.

Telling a ninja that he must also turn off his warp scrambler for 60 seconds before changing ships simply means the mission bear warps off and escapes.

This change crushes the profession. So now even the 'Salvage ninja' profession is now considered an abuse.
Result: mission bears are safer than ever - the sole remaining risk: random suicide ganks.

Which is I suppose what CCP wants, anyway....theme-park highsec.

Fix the Orca in lowsec and you aren't 'hiding' or 'saving' anything. In fact, you are now putting twice as many ships at risk of destruction - or possibly being boarded and stolen by the mission bear or 3rd parties.

Oddity: the combination of "HICs get a W flag whenever they bubble up" and "W flag prevents you from ejecting for its 60s duration" creates issues when you go to speed-roll WHs by cycling several pilots through a single rolling HIC (this is often done when you're out in the field and don't have a passel of people in HICs standing by). Under the new system, you'd have to introduce a ~60s delay between "jump back" and "eject", which is doable but rather annoying/slows the process down not-insignificantly I reckon.

Easiest way to work around this (if such a thing is even desired, that is; it is a marginal usecase compared to HICs gate/stationcamping in 0.0) would be to make it so simply activating one's HIC bubble does not yield a W flag; W and P would then be given to the HIC pilot together when someone aggresses him/her by trying to warp while inside the HIC bubble.

Also, there's a corner case I want to point out here: if someone hops in a HIC, warps to a safe, turns their HIC bubble on, and then goes to make a sandwich (lets say 5mins AFK), will they still be W flagged when they return? Or does the W flag only turn on when the module is initially activated, and not get refreshed when the WDFG cycles?

My big question is are wreaks containers? If so the next burn jita event will be truely epic. Not from the concord responce but from the players as they all start turning killable with out concord responce.

If you successfully get the runner to aggress you without you first committing a criminal act, then you have successfully baited the runner to engage in combat. However, that clearly is not what you want. You want to commit a criminal act in front of the runner in a seemingly nonthreatening ship and once he engages have someone bring you a more capable ship so that you can avoid the consequences of your choice.

At the same time you want the runner to suffer the consequences of his decision. It is clear from the underlined statement in your post that many of your "baited" targets are aware they have made a bad decision, are looking to escape, and only your point is keeping them there. So I need to ask, exactly what are you relying on to get that kill? Are you relying on a panicked runner to stop spamming his warp button while you're swapping ships to keep him on grid, or are you relying on whether you can swap ships, reestablish your lock, and apply a new point before the cycle time of your frigate point expires?

It is an important question. On one hand you could be an experience combat veteran who's nerves of steal triumph over a panicked and flustered newb. On the other, you are a skill-less griefer exploiting a broken mechanic for a risk free kill.

So given the information from the ever so pretty charts: Low Sec gate guns won't engage you if you start attacking someone?
I ask: Do you get a criminal after destroying your target or are you still just a suspect? Else is the criminal timer only for pods (speaking low sec)?

Given what I deduced, unless we pod kill, pirates no longer have anything to fear from gate guns. (which I won't exactly complain about to be honest )

No need to courier package them. You can't open a container that's in a jet can or wreck (or POS Hangar). How are you making mistakes of game mechanics this basic?

Here's a solution. Give the corp with the final blow looting rights on their kill. Shared rights with the dead guy (ofc).
This means that Suicide Gankers have to be in corps (which means they can be decced), they have to all be in the same corp (a nerf to ganking, but whatever), but can still loot their shit.

My better solution would be to try to redesign Crimewatch without starting with the mission statement "How can we make HS Safer?"

If you attack someone who is not a legal target for you, you take a sec hit.

If gate guns see you take a sec hit, they'll engage.


In high sec, you'll get a criminal flag, and get concorded.

In lowsec you'll get a suspect flag (unless it's a pod. then it's a criminal flag).