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Dev blog: Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch

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Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#381 - 2012-10-04 20:17:59 UTC
I'm probably not understanding the new system but sec status penalties for assisting against criminals feels counter intuitive to me.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#382 - 2012-10-04 20:19:02 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Which is something we thought about, but want to avoid. Having to track flags per character and flags per item, and then deal with merging/splitting those is going to lead to even more bugs and exploits.
I kind of suspected as much. It's the whole interim period where something is sitting in space without a pilot that is the clincher, I suppose.

If it was just a matter of storing the ship, the old idea treating the Orca pilot as if he were a logi or other remote support ship could be resurrected, but I guess that middle step is annoying…

Oh well, it's not like T3s could stand being toned down a bit anyway. P
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#383 - 2012-10-04 20:19:48 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


But if the two -10 guys DON'T start the fight because they are in ships that cant take sentries. But jump into a say.. Gang of three, that would be a good fight normally except they are all positive sec. They can tackle and kill one of us without the other being able to do anything at all to help

If we try to help we die to sentries. In this case the sentries are working against the passive party, not the agressing one.

That's the hard life of an outlaw.
Crash the gate.
Use scout.



This however is the only situation i can think of in the game where you can't help a corpmate as well as the only time when gate guns work in favor of the agressor.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#384 - 2012-10-04 20:19:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
I think there are quite enough cons against being an outlaw (with absolutely no benefits i might add,) being an outlaw is the least rewarding career choice in eve game mechanic wise. All it really does is stack the odds against you without giving you any benefit what so ever.


Benefits:
Tons of fun in highsec, because everybody plus faction police is on your ass.
Everybody as in: Players if they care ... and the faction police isn't really an issue
as long as there are enough bookmarks to warp around ... and they are easily
doable on grid anyway. The warping is great fun, though.
Showed this to quite a few people and they all enjoyed what i'm doing.

I agree, though, that CCP should make a distinct outlaw profession ... simple gankers,
who hide in station unless called/having found targets via alts, don't count.
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#385 - 2012-10-04 20:20:17 UTC
Dern Morrow wrote:
Hi CCP!

First, I love the changes so far. I'm a 0.0 fleet PvPer, and I often fly logistics ships and interdictors. It was always tacky that we logi could sit on the gates and jump through risk-free, so I'm glad that's being fixed.

One thing I haven't seen talked about, and would like you to say something on:

Presently, you can sit on a station in your carrier and repair it. Risk free, since you can just dock if anything happens. Given that some stations have very large dock radiuses, this means we can just chill on the station no matter how many hostiles are in local and repair it up while our fleet keeps the hostiles occupied so they aren't shooting the station down.

It would be interesting to me if perhaps the Crimewatch mechanics extended to allow for flagging logistics against stations that are hurt. This would prevent the abuse above, but it would also expose carriers sitting on stations to attack -- particularly from titans and dreads who might want to come in and gamble that 60 seconds is enough to blow one of the targets up.

Thoughts?

This will indeed require some thoughts. Interesting suggestion.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#386 - 2012-10-04 20:21:29 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Arec Bardwin wrote:
Overall, great changes!

A few questions though:

- how is the transporting of illegal goods handled?
- Pods, are they legal targets if the player is criminal, suspect, LE flagged?
- criminally flagged pod cannot initiate warp?

Unchanged
Yes
Criminal pods are excepted from the "can't dock/warp in high-sec" restriction

Am I to read this that Suspect, LE, and Criminal players will ALL have legally-shootable pods (in the case of LE, to the players involved)?

Yes. So far we've not seen a good reason why it should be any other way.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#387 - 2012-10-04 20:22:07 UTC
TheMaster42 wrote:
PvP flag will carry between systems like all the other flags, correct? (This would be a change from the current behavior.)

It sure will! (As will all your flags)

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
glepp
New Caldari Bureau of Investigation
#388 - 2012-10-04 20:22:37 UTC
You broke dictors again by giving them a weapon flag for launching an interdiction probe.

Dammit, now that they were finally working again.

Since you actually put it in the chart, I assume it's intentional. What's the reasoning?
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#389 - 2012-10-04 20:22:55 UTC
Jeas Imerius wrote:
I like how this sounds so far! I have an idea of how the new 1v1 system could work though..

Call it Dueling:

  • Right click players portrait or ship and click 'Challenge player to Duel' (must be in a ship and in space).
  • A window pops up were both parties either accept or decline. 'Insert Name has challenged you to a Duel, do you wish to defend your honor?'
  • If both accept, a 10 second timer begins during which time both players assume their positions (take 10 paces).
  • After the countdown they are free to fire on each other without incurring any flags.
  • Once a ship is destroyed the duel is over.

    • Big smile

    Stop reading my email!

    "This one time, on patch day..."

    @ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
    Darius III
    Interstellar eXodus
    The Initiative.
    #390 - 2012-10-04 20:24:20 UTC
    I may regret saying this but here goes anyway:

    This system looks to be a major improvement, after reviewing all materials available to me i can not think of any major complaint nor do I think any of it is "obviously broken" from the outset.

    Provided a mechanic is introduced that allows for voluntary pvp-I think l am 100% for every aspect of the revisions. l didnt think that the new crimewatch would be an improvement, and am very pleased that CCP has proven me wrong. Kudos

    Hmmm
    Warde Guildencrantz
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #391 - 2012-10-04 20:24:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
    Marcel Devereux wrote:


    That is a unrealistic scenario. Nobody is ever going to do that. What they will do however is eject from their ship in high-sec after baiting someone and have their alt scoop it up in the Orca and warp away ;-)


    I can confirm that Tundragon scoops with orcas all the friggin time. It's not really fair but it minimizes losses if we can't get out by other means. I am not worried about it being nerfed because it was an OP tactic for escape.

    It should be made such that if the ship is targeted it cant be scooped by the orca, not that "you can't eject just because". The "you cant eject under gun countdown" rule in general is just pointlessly limiting and doesnt achieve anything. Maybe if you care about ejecting T3s so much, you could ONLY make it apply to them? Honestly, the reasoning behind implementing it is not sound and its just not worth doing, too restrictive.

    CCP Masterplan wrote:
    Jeas Imerius wrote:
    I like how this sounds so far! I have an idea of how the new 1v1 system could work though..

    Call it Dueling:

  • Right click players portrait or ship and click 'Challenge player to Duel' (must be in a ship and in space).
  • A window pops up were both parties either accept or decline. 'Insert Name has challenged you to a Duel, do you wish to defend your honor?'
  • If both accept, a 10 second timer begins during which time both players assume their positions (take 10 paces).
  • After the countdown they are free to fire on each other without incurring any flags.
  • Once a ship is destroyed the duel is over.

    • Big smile

    Stop reading my email!


    Call it a Mutual Fire Contract, not something WOW'y like a duel.

    TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
    adopt
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #392 - 2012-10-04 20:26:19 UTC
    So to clear something up, because **** going through 20 pages of **** posting.

    What if I pod someone in Lowsec, will the penalties of criminal apply to me? I.e will I be unable to warp, jump dock for 15 minutes?
    Pinky Denmark
    The Cursed Navy
    #393 - 2012-10-04 20:26:42 UTC
    CCP Masterplan wrote:
    Odin Shadow wrote:
    Tippia wrote:
    Odin Shadow wrote:
    when running a mission, you are scrammed. ccp have one of the network issue that have happened of late, so you D/C and cant reconnect. you ship just sits there and dies now?
    If it does now, it will in the future, only for a longer time.


    if the npc's are shooting you, that time will never expire?

    No flags can be created after log-off. The only flag that can be extended after log-off is the PVP flag.


    It is really a shame that people can jump through a gate and within the period of the gate cloak timer log out in hope of the enemy being unable to kill his ship in 30 seconds...

    Pinky
    Abdiel Kavash
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #394 - 2012-10-04 20:27:28 UTC
    CCP Masterplan wrote:
    TheMaster42 wrote:
    PvP flag will carry between systems like all the other flags, correct? (This would be a change from the current behavior.)

    It sure will! (As will all your flags)

    Implication: if you web your freighter in one system, you can't log off in the next system to avoid getting killed by WTs (you will keep the 15 minute logoff timer).
    De'Veldrin
    Republic University
    Minmatar Republic
    #395 - 2012-10-04 20:28:21 UTC
    Goonspiracy wrote:
    Tippia wrote:
    Goonspiracy wrote:
    Are you seriously giving ratters 15 min "keep their ships in space" aggression timers? Do you not see anything wrong with this? This is a very simple question
    Fit a cloak?

    That's a brilliant way to defend your logged out ship


    Why would you need to log out if you can cloak?

    De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
    Mujen
    Republic University
    Minmatar Republic
    #396 - 2012-10-04 20:29:22 UTC
    CCP Masterplan wrote:
    Absocold wrote:
    Giving light interdictors a 'W' flag just for activating an interdiction sphere launcher will make them unable to jump through a gate after doing so. Dics are supposed to be able to jump after launching a bubble as long as no one tries to warp in it, this was broken for a while and was only recently fixed, you're about to break it again.

    Nope. It was always intended to work this way, but never did. Then it got fixed so that it would prevent you from jumping after launching. Then it got broken again recently.


    I'm interested in hearing why bubbles were intended to work this way. I flew dictors when you could jump after dropping the bubble and when you couldn't. In my opinion the "broken" way far superior. If you wanted to keep the dictor from jumping? Warp in his bubble. Trap him. Give him aggression to prevent him. This creates a much more dynamic and challenging playing environment.

    Dictors are getting pricey, and they are fragile. You could cloak for sure, but it would nice to have other ways to GTFO and assist the fleet.

    I fear that this will penalize small scale pvp where gangs would only have 1 dictor, so this change I feel will diminish their use. People will be less aggressive if they are afraid about aggroing.

    Although I can see why dropping a bubble can be seen in the same light as shooting a weapon it makes eve more predictable tactically. You're taking a tool out of the FC toolkit. I know the first time dictors were hit with this basically nobody I knew liked it at all and their use dropped. There was a great amount of excitement when this mechanic went back to the "broken" way. I have have been on both sides of the dictor bubble and I would prefer that it remains how it is.

    Warde Guildencrantz
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #397 - 2012-10-04 20:29:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
    Garviel Tarrant wrote:


    Some people's idea of being an outlaw is roaming and pvping..

    Not instalock camping, no risk pvp and other such terribleness people like Scum and TunDraGon do to soil the name of pirates everywhere.


    Actually we do roam, just not every waking moment. Usually every other day.

    The camp=crap pvpers argument really gets old, everyone knows it is done to make isk, not to "pretend to be good at PvP".

    We do non-camp PvP as well, and enjoy it.

    TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
    Proddy Scun
    Doomheim
    #398 - 2012-10-04 20:30:09 UTC
    Since CCP is taking away early surprise ejection as an option to reduce chances of being podded in PVP...

    maybe they need to automated pod combat escape a little more.

    While its nice to survey and BM wrecks from pod in NPC combat, in PVP combat I just want to get the hell away ASAP.

    In PVP sometimes I find my pod appearance lagged behind attackers or the explosion makes the pod spinning and uncontrollable for a short but critical time.

    How about having pod home on random celestial body or dock with random station in system? Or at least a random warp out of weapon range (350km+) within grid.

    The within grid warp might be the best compromise for pod escape between PVP and NPC combat. Although it would be easy enough to make the auto-escape a player toggle button option as well.
    Jarin Arenos
    Card Shark Industries
    #399 - 2012-10-04 20:30:13 UTC
    So far I've seen no commentary on the effect this will have on mission runners. I know that this playstyle is low on your list of priorities (especially highsec missions), but this is a huge functional nerf. As it stands currently, if you're in a mission, and the network between you and CCP craps its pants, you warp out within 60 seconds, saving your ship from the whims of fate.

    Post-change, your ship sits there like a lump and - if you're not heavy-tanked cap-stable - dies. So the new rule is "Cap Stable Overtank or GTFO"? No more blitzing missions in my AF unless I live next-door to CCP? This can't be the intention of this change...

    But I'm not CCP Soundwave, so what do I know?
    Abdiel Kavash
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #400 - 2012-10-04 20:30:22 UTC
    adopt wrote:
    So to clear something up, because **** going through 20 pages of **** posting.

    What if I pod someone in Lowsec, will the penalties of criminal apply to me? I.e will I be unable to warp, jump dock for 15 minutes?


    If you pod (or even aggress a pod) someone in lowsec, you will get a C (criminal) flag. As long as you stay in lowsec, this only means you will get shot at by gateguns. However is you jump to highsec while you still have the C flag active, you'll get the CONCORD treatement complete with instant points and no more jumping.