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Dev blog: Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch

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CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#141 - 2012-10-04 16:34:47 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:

Kill rights

Performing an action against another player that gets you a Criminal flag will also award a kill-right to that person. This will happen regardless of whether or not the target ship was destroyed. This will feed in to the revamped bounty system that Team Super Friends will be talking about very shortly, so look for a dev blog coming from them soon.


Currently, Kill Rights are granted under the following conditions:

* As an aggressor, if you attack a ship (Go GCC) and aggression is not returned upon you by the ship you are attacking, the other party gains kill rights on you upon their destruction.

* As above, if the attacked ship does return aggression on you, they do not gain kill rights on you if they are destroyed.

Will this continue to be the case, or is just the mere act of attacking a ship will grant kill rights on you, regardless of the outcome?

No it won't work like that any more. Just the act of a criminal attack will create the kill right. What happens after that (victim fights back or not, victim dies or not) won't change anything

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Rayemmi B'tes
Black Rose Inc.
Black Rose.
#142 - 2012-10-04 16:34:58 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
Just to clarify some scenarios that we encounter regularly:

1.) A nullsec mining fleet sees a hostile roam coming their direction, they crash the clients to prevent being seen. Right now, all the non-pvp aggressed ships would leave space after 60 seconds. With the changes the ones who had been shot by belt rats recently would remain in space for up to 15 mins where they'll easily be scanned down and killed?

2.) A supercarrier fleet is going around creating sov timers, reinforcing ihubs/stations unopposed, destroying offline towers, attacking POCOs. Their internet fails and their clients DC. Right now they would vanish in 60 seconds. With the changes they would persist in space for 15 mins where they can easily be scanned down and killed?

3.) A super capital fleet is involved in a pvp skirmish while out on operations but they're almost done. They cyno back to their staging system, warp off to their own towers, and log. Right now they'd vanish after 60 seconds. With the changes they'd persist for up to 15 mins with renewable pvp aggression?


Yes

I'm pretty sure we're going to make shooting structures owned by players give the attacker a PVP flag. So probably yes

They'd persist for 15 minutes after they were last involved in PVP, and that time can be extended after they log


Oh, sweet. More dead supers is always a good thing. What, like 2 die every week? Hopefully that number'll go up.
Rayemmi B'tes
Black Rose Inc.
Black Rose.
#143 - 2012-10-04 16:35:37 UTC
Masterplan, any comment on our bit about offgrid boosters getting agression?
Sento Tor
Destructive Brothers
Fraternity.
#144 - 2012-10-04 16:36:02 UTC
So, now when you flip a can or do whatever to get a suspect flag you'll be shootable by everyone and their dog in highsec. But the person that shoots you while you're a suspect doesn't get a suspect flag in return that makes him shootable by everyone, am I correct? Well, since you've removed the A-B flagging for those situations, I think it would be only fair that whoever attacks a suspect also gets a suspect flag and is shootable by all. After all, the suspect is not a 'criminal' (presumption of innocence and all that) and therefore a person that shoots a suspect should become a suspect as well, since a law abiding citizen of New Eden would not shoot on suspect since he has not been proven guilty. This while 'everyone can shoot the suspect' thing is the major critique I have of the new CW system. IT seems to me that it's essentially a dumbing down of whole aggression mechanics.
Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2012-10-04 16:36:31 UTC
Has then been any thought to changing the system so that Smuggling of illegal goods in a particular faction's space is viable?


  1. If CONCORD/Faction scans you down and finds illegal goods

  • Are there any Suspect/Criminal flags given to the Smuggler when he/she is scanned and illegal goods are found?

  • Are Customs Scans still going to be nigh-impossible to avoid?

  • If not, where on the road-map are features planned to get past Customs Scans?

  • If Smuggler is a Suspect - do they still get hit with fine/standings loss while potentially being shot at by other players?

  • Does the Sec Status penalty brought on from having illegal goods trigger Sentry Guns in high-sec, as stated in the chart?

  • Does the Smuggler still retain a Suspect/Criminal flag - if any - if he jettisons his/her cargo?

    • "As long as space endures,

    as long as sentient beings exist,

    until then, may I too remain

    and dispel the miseries of the world."

    ~ Vremaja Idama
    Aiden Mourn
    Wrack and Ruin
    #146 - 2012-10-04 16:37:32 UTC
    Sheynan wrote:
    Aiden Mourn wrote:
    CCP Masterplan wrote:
    Sun Win wrote:
    That's unfortunate, given that when you guys announced Tech 3 on the Dev Blog, you said:

    Quote:
    Ejecting or self-destructing does prevent the penalty, giving players an incentive to abandon ship from time to time.


    Now you've made it so that Tech 3 pilots can't abandon ship. It's not a huge deal, most Tech 3 ships go down fighting. But this was something that you originally included as an interesting gameplay choice that you are now removing.

    "From time-to-time" is not the same as "In the middle of combat that isn't going your way"
    If you were suprise-ganked and weren't shooting, you can eject as you wish. But once you make an attack, you are committing yourself, for good or for bad.



    "For bad" here being, "the loss of substantial skillpoints". True, ejecting from a ship as a means of escaping cause and effect and consequences to your actions is in the long-game, bad. But ejecting from a T3 to escape the SP loss still has (had?) its consequences, namely leaving behind a 500mil+ ship. I understand that there are obviously exploits to be looked at with this, but I feel like the choice should be there for a pilot to commit to either losing SP or ISK, especially in the case of piloting a T3 which tends to be heavy on both sides of that coin.



    Maybe, but people were exploiting this all day long by ejecting and immediately scooping up the ejected ship with another one...


    True (trust me Blink ), but further CW2 rules dictate no more storing ships in another ship while aggressed, though I suppose that goes hand-in-hand with the "no ejecting" part.

    http://aidenmourn.wordpress.com/
    Shandir
    EVE University
    Ivy League
    #147 - 2012-10-04 16:38:41 UTC
    Nomistrav wrote:
    Has then been any thought to changing the system so that Smuggling of illegal goods in a particular faction's space is viable?


    1. If CONCORD/Faction scans you down and finds illegal goods

  • Are there any Suspect/Criminal flags given to the Smuggler when he/she is scanned and illegal goods are found?

  • Are Customs Scans still going to be nigh-impossible to avoid?

  • If not, where on the road-map are features planned to get past Customs Scans?

  • If Smuggler is a Suspect - do they still get hit with fine/standings loss while potentially being shot at by other players?

  • Does the Sec Status penalty brought on from having illegal goods trigger Sentry Guns in high-sec, as stated in the chart?

  • Does the Smuggler still retain a Suspect/Criminal flag - if any - if he jettisons his/her cargo?


    • They could pretty easily implement this just by giving a suspect flag and letting the players deal with it.
    Optimo Sebiestor
    The New Eden School of trade
    Organization of Skill Extracting Corporations
    #148 - 2012-10-04 16:38:57 UTC
    Imo, without a option to create 1v1's or team vs team, this crimewatch fails..
    DJ FunkyBacon
    Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc.
    Monkeys with Guns.
    #149 - 2012-10-04 16:40:05 UTC  |  Edited by: DJ FunkyBacon
    CCP Masterplan wrote:
    DJ FunkyBacon wrote:
    There really needs to be a way for 2 players to engage in a LE without the whole of eve getting involved.

    As an example, at Eve Radio we do many tournaments (and I'm sure other entities hold competitions as well) using can flip mechanics to allow players to engage each other in highsec. With these new can flip mechanics, players will now be able to be attacked by anyone nearby.

    I would like to see some sort of a challenge system where 2 players can agree to be flagged for an LE against each other without inviting the rest of Eve in on the fight. Tie it to the CSPA charge to prevent abuse if you must, but please don't kill 1v1s.

    Aside from that, I think the changes are brilliant.

    Your king-of-the-hill radio contests were the specific example I used internally when I explained why we need to support this. I can't commit a solution at this time, but rest assured I really want to make sure a replacement mechanic happen (even if it has to wait until a .1 patch)


    I'd like to say, "you don't know how happy that makes me" but I suspect you do, so I'll just say "Thanks!"

    Radio Host, Blogger, Lowsec Resident, PvP Afficionado.

    funkybacon.com - Blog

    FunkyBacon on Twitter
    War Kitten
    Panda McLegion
    #150 - 2012-10-04 16:41:12 UTC
    June Ting wrote:
    This means that if someone logs off a carrier after getting PVE aggression, I have a 15 minute DPS race timer to scan and kill them before they disappear. This seems to not actually carry out the intent of having PVE be risky if you get scanned down, as there is nothing I can do to add a PVP flag to your ship after you've logged out, and if you can survive 5 min for me to switch to a helios, scan you, plus tank my fleet for ~10 minutes, you're scot-free. Mostly an issue for big ships, not as big a deal for small ships which can be blapped easily within 10 minutes.


    This part ought to clear that situation up. If you shoot at the logged out pilot you scanned down, they will get a PVP Flag:

    CCP Masterplan's Devblog wrote:
    PVP Flag: This flag is activated when one player uses offensive modules against another. The initiator of the action will get a PVP flag. If the recipient is a piloted ship, then the owner of this ship will also get a PVP flag. Having this flag will prevent a ship from being removed from space if the pilot logs off. This flag functions in all areas of space.

    I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
    Nomistrav
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #151 - 2012-10-04 16:41:14 UTC
    Shandir wrote:


    They could pretty easily implement this just by giving a suspect flag and letting the players deal with it.


    Agree'd - but with the current system you'd get hit by Suspect flag -every single time- you entered a high-sec system with illegal goods. A new player running a mission could potentially pick up some Strippers and go into Amarr space without even knowing what they were doing and get murdered by a bunch of Vet players.

    "As long as space endures,

    as long as sentient beings exist,

    until then, may I too remain

    and dispel the miseries of the world."

    ~ Vremaja Idama
    Aiden Mourn
    Wrack and Ruin
    #152 - 2012-10-04 16:41:51 UTC
    Rayemmi B'tes wrote:
    Masterplan, any comment on our bit about offgrid boosters getting agression?


    Shhhhh!!



    The first rule of off-grid boosting club is....


    http://aidenmourn.wordpress.com/
    CCP Masterplan
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #153 - 2012-10-04 16:42:29 UTC
    Rayemmi B'tes wrote:
    Masterplan, any comment on our bit about offgrid boosters getting agression?

    Fleet boosters and ganglinks won't be getting touched by any of this. It's not that we don't want to do something about them (we do) it is just that there is only so many things we can commit to changing at once. Revamping ganglinks is a larger issue that needs some dedicated attention.

    "This one time, on patch day..."

    @ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
    June Ting
    Nobody in Local
    Deepwater Hooligans
    #154 - 2012-10-04 16:42:49 UTC  |  Edited by: June Ting
    War Kitten wrote:
    June Ting wrote:
    This means that if someone logs off a carrier after getting PVE aggression, I have a 15 minute DPS race timer to scan and kill them before they disappear. This seems to not actually carry out the intent of having PVE be risky if you get scanned down, as there is nothing I can do to add a PVP flag to your ship after you've logged out, and if you can survive 5 min for me to switch to a helios, scan you, plus tank my fleet for ~10 minutes, you're scot-free. Mostly an issue for big ships, not as big a deal for small ships which can be blapped easily within 10 minutes.


    This part ought to clear that situation up. If you shoot at the logged out pilot you scanned down, they will get a PVP Flag:

    CCP Masterplan's Devblog wrote:
    PVP Flag: This flag is activated when one player uses offensive modules against another. The initiator of the action will get a PVP flag. If the recipient is a piloted ship, then the owner of this ship will also get a PVP flag. Having this flag will prevent a ship from being removed from space if the pilot logs off. This flag functions in all areas of space.


    Contradicted by the "a logged out player cannot have *new* flags applied to them, only extensions of old flags applied before they logged out" mentioned above, hence the request for clarification.

    CCP Masterplan wrote:
    A PVP flag can only be created whilst logged on, but it can be extended whilst logged off (much like the current invisible logoff timer works today)

    I fight for the freedom of my people.
    War Kitten
    Panda McLegion
    #155 - 2012-10-04 16:43:34 UTC
    Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
    Imo, without a option to create 1v1's or team vs team, this crimewatch fails..


    "We're also working on a replacement for the usage of loot-theft as a way to initiate consensual 1v1s without incurring criminal penalties that we hope to release for Winter. Keep an eye out for an announcement about when these changes will become available for public testing."

    I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
    Dirael Papier
    Malevelon Roe Industries
    Convocation of Empyreans
    #156 - 2012-10-04 16:44:04 UTC
    Nomistrav wrote:
    Has then been any thought to changing the system so that Smuggling of illegal goods in a particular faction's space is viable?

    You know what would be kind of neat for smuggling? Every time customs officials scan you and notice illegal goods in your cargo you suspect timer is reset (so back to the full 15 minutes. Or just being in high sec with illegal goods has your suspect flag set to the maximum time until the illegal goods are gone, at which point the flag starts counting down) but there's no sec status hit or fee. If it all goes well you can smuggle along happily without any issue, but your open to free attack from anyone that wants free stuff.
    Rayemmi B'tes
    Black Rose Inc.
    Black Rose.
    #157 - 2012-10-04 16:44:37 UTC
    Aiden Mourn wrote:
    Rayemmi B'tes wrote:
    Masterplan, any comment on our bit about offgrid boosters getting agression?


    Shhhhh!!



    The first rule of off-grid boosting club is....




    Death to the offgrid boosters in pvp! Someone actually found a couple when we got wardec'd last time...our solution was alpha nados I believe :P can't find the killmail, but it would be nice to be able to kill our enemies' booster without a concordokken.

    And MP, thanks for the response. However, boosting should be considered an 'assist module' in the same way that a repper is. They do just as much, if not more, harm to the enemy fleet by augmenting their own in a vast way.
    Odin Shadow
    ZC Industries
    Dark Stripes
    #158 - 2012-10-04 16:45:41 UTC
    so ill ask again.

    when running a mission, you are scrammed. ccp have one of the network issue that have happened of late, so you D/C and cant reconnect. you ship just sits there and dies now?
    Nomistrav
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #159 - 2012-10-04 16:45:54 UTC
    Dirael Papier wrote:
    Nomistrav wrote:
    Has then been any thought to changing the system so that Smuggling of illegal goods in a particular faction's space is viable?

    You know what would be kind of neat for smuggling? Every time customs officials scan you and notice illegal goods in your cargo you suspect timer is reset (so back to the full 15 minutes. Or just being in high sec with illegal goods has your suspect flag set to the maximum time until the illegal goods are gone, at which point the flag starts counting down) but there's no sec status hit or fee. If it all goes well you can smuggle along happily without any issue, but your open to free attack from anyone that wants free stuff.


    Would be pretty cool - I'd fit a Cov Ops cloak on my T3 and be a -very- successful smuggler of my Booster Manufacture ^_^

    It's SO HARD finding buyers!!!

    "As long as space endures,

    as long as sentient beings exist,

    until then, may I too remain

    and dispel the miseries of the world."

    ~ Vremaja Idama
    Rayemmi B'tes
    Black Rose Inc.
    Black Rose.
    #160 - 2012-10-04 16:47:43 UTC
    Odin Shadow wrote:
    so ill ask again.

    when running a mission, you are scrammed. ccp have one of the network issue that have happened of late, so you D/C and cant reconnect. you ship just sits there and dies now?


    That's what happens when you D/C while scrammed now, if I'm not mistaken. So nothing changing there.