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Dev blog: Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch

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June Ting
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#81 - 2012-10-04 15:52:04 UTC  |  Edited by: June Ting
Do flags persist when jumping between systems, or are they system-specific? I know I've had multiple cases under the old system where someone gets PVP-flagged on one side of a gate, gatecrashes, and logoffskies, and disappears from space 1 minute later rather than 15 minutes since they're in a different system.

Also, "The initiator of the action will get a PVP flag. If the recipient is a piloted ship, then the owner of this ship will also get a PVP flag." -- if a player is PVE flagged and logs off, and I scan them down under the new system, does putting a hit on their ship give them a fresh PVP timer, or do they disappear within 15 minutes of NPC aggression regardless of whether a player attacks them after they log off? (e.g. is their ship considered 'piloted' or not?)

What about if someone jumps into a non-bubbled lowsec gatecamp, holds gatecloak, and logs off before the campers can get a pvp flag on them? Do they disappear from space within 1 minute, or can someone with *no flags* at the time they hit logoff gain a PVP flag from being hit as they're emergency warping off from their gatecloak?

I fight for the freedom of my people.
Lialem
#82 - 2012-10-04 15:53:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Lialem
What happens if you shoot a container (not yours) in empire and/or low sec and/or null sec space?

Also what about all those structures in missions that you are not allowed to shoot?
DJ FunkyBacon
Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc.
Monkeys with Guns.
#83 - 2012-10-04 15:55:08 UTC  |  Edited by: DJ FunkyBacon
There really needs to be a way for 2 players to engage in a LE without the whole of eve getting involved.

As an example, at Eve Radio we do many tournaments (and I'm sure other entities hold competitions as well) using can flip mechanics to allow players to engage each other in highsec. With these new can flip mechanics, players will now be able to be attacked by anyone nearby.

I would like to see some sort of a challenge system where 2 players can agree to be flagged for an LE against each other without inviting the rest of Eve in on the fight.

Aside from that, I think the changes are brilliant.

EDIT: Somehow I must have missed the sentence near the end about a planned substitute for the can flip fight, looking forward to seeing what that is.

Radio Host, Blogger, Lowsec Resident, PvP Afficionado.

funkybacon.com - Blog

FunkyBacon on Twitter
Matt Grav
Wrath of the Pea
#84 - 2012-10-04 15:56:43 UTC
So anything that results in a sec status loss still triggers the gate guns, but you can leave and come back and they no longer shoot (as long as you're only a suspect.)
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#85 - 2012-10-04 15:57:14 UTC
whats the point of having a not working eject button?

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#86 - 2012-10-04 15:57:23 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Sounds like a great solution, but i got a question.

If I in lowsec attacks a player, who is an illegal target for me, and I destroy his ship I will get Suspect flag and the Sentry guns will shoot me during the combat. But if I warps out and warps back again (while still under the S flag) will they resume attacking me?

No. They'll always shoot Criminals on-sight for as long as the Criminal has the flag, but for other acts they will only shoot you for as long as you stay in their vicinity after whatever action gave you a Suspect flag.


I need a clarification on this example too.

From reading the charts, I see that shooting at a player ship only generates the suspect flag. The suspect flag consequences do not include sentry gun fire.

So will the sentry guns even fire at all if I shoot an illegal target player ship at a gatecamp in lowsec? I got the warp out and back thing... but why do I even need to warp out? All I have is Suspect, Weapons and PvP flags.

That's the "Sec hit = Yes" and "Incurring Sec-status penalty" entries interact. If a sentry sees you do something bad, it will shoot you until you go away. After that, it will only shoot you again if you do something else bad, or are a Criminal


Thanks! I just noticed I missed that line too and editted.


Changes look great to me so far.

I do notice that interdictors can no longer bubble a gate and jump. Seems ok.

But Heavy Interdictors now have to wait for the bubble cycle to end, AND THEN finally wait for the weapons timer to end before they can jump or dock. This certainly puts them at risk for longer than before - 90 seconds guaranteed from the time you turn on the bubble. Any chance the duration of the bubble generator can be shortened? (with matching adjustment to activation cost to match)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Lialem
#87 - 2012-10-04 15:57:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lialem
DJ FunkyBacon wrote:
There really needs to be a way for 2 players to engage in a LE without the whole of eve getting involved.

As an example, at Eve Radio we do many tournaments (and I'm sure other entities hold competitions as well) using can flip mechanics to allow players to engage each other in highsec. With these new can flip mechanics, players will now be able to be attacked by anyone nearby.

I would like to see some sort of a challenge system where 2 players can agree to be flagged for an LE against each other without inviting the rest of Eve in on the fight.

Aside from that, I think the changes are brilliant.



You mean like a.... duel?.... maybe you want some arenas also.... maybe a battleground?..
Please no....
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-10-04 15:58:05 UTC
How will outlaws (i.e. characters with a sec status below -5.0) without criminal flags be treated in highsec - will they continue to be valid targets for all players and also attacked by the faction navies/police but not CONCORD?
Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#89 - 2012-10-04 15:58:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Shandir
1)
You still have a (slightly less efficient) method of Orca-swapping in PvP.

You cannot swap while in a ship, but if your ship is destroyed, you can then swap.

Alice harasses/steals from Bob in a frigate (as before)
Bob retaliates, expecting an easy kill (as before, because he's dumb)
Bob destroys Alice's frigate, Alice's alt-orca warps in.
Alice hotswaps to a pwn-boat.
Alice applies pwn to Bob.

Not sure if this is a *problem* as such, but the no-eject, no-swap rules seem to imply CCP is trying to nerf Orca-swapping in combat. It probably shouldn't be possible while Weapon Timer is active.

2)
Strategic Cruisers got nerfed with the no-eject rule - intended? EDIT: Question answered. Intended.

3)
There doesn't seem to be any way to voluntarily flag yourself to another player, without flagging yourself to every player. I am all for high-sec 1v1s becoming suddenly 1vLOTS as before, but allowing any random passerby to get involved is not good - because neither party can control that, so it's not clever backstabbing, it's just random.
Rayemmi B'tes
Black Rose Inc.
Black Rose.
#90 - 2012-10-04 15:59:16 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
My fellow RVBer had a great suggestion

Quote:
No kidding. I wish that ganglinks would be treated the same way... it would make a good difference in high sec. That and I would love to see all the flashy T3's start popping up in local.


+1 to shen's idea. I'm guessing other hisec entities besides RvB have the same issue, where the wardeccers get a massive advantage from their boosts, but we can't do anything about their neutral boosters.

Perhaps similar to logis, do a check like this

Pilot A is in a legion and has a neutral boosting Pilot B in a damnation.

It seems like neutral boosters should receive the same penalties as logistics (or 'assist module' using ships, as you called them) for assisting an agressed ship.
tayjor
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#91 - 2012-10-04 15:59:19 UTC
So you can steal from corp wallet and hangers with impunity, but take 1 trit from a can and the whole universe is on your ass?
Goonspiracy
Doomheim
#92 - 2012-10-04 15:59:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Goonspiracy wrote:
Are you seriously giving ratters 15 min "keep their ships in space" aggression timers? Do you not see anything wrong with this? This is a very simple question
Fit a cloak?

That's a brilliant way to defend your logged out ship
DJWiggles
Eve Radio Corporation
#93 - 2012-10-04 15:59:30 UTC
DJ FunkyBacon wrote:
There really needs to be a way for 2 players to engage in a LE without the whole of eve getting involved.

As an example, at Eve Radio we do many tournaments (and I'm sure other entities hold competitions as well) using can flip mechanics to allow players to engage each other in highsec. With these new can flip mechanics, players will now be able to be attacked by anyone nearby.

I would like to see some sort of a challenge system where 2 players can agree to be flagged for an LE against each other without inviting the rest of Eve in on the fight.

Aside from that, I think the changes are brilliant.


Yep we do need something like that, a magic gauntlet you can slap people with, WE do need it, na WE MUST HAVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!

Live on Eve Radio Sundays 15:00 GMT with me & friends talking about Eve and stuff. Twitter, Facebook TotalEve
DJWiggles
Eve Radio Corporation
#94 - 2012-10-04 16:00:41 UTC
tayjor wrote:
So you can steal from corp wallet and hangers with impunity, but take 1 trit from a can and the whole universe is on your ass?


Well you were GRANTED the roles in good faith ... space is a cold harsh place, where noone can hear you scream when the lube is cold

Live on Eve Radio Sundays 15:00 GMT with me & friends talking about Eve and stuff. Twitter, Facebook TotalEve
Reid Ardorei
The Halcyon Directive
#95 - 2012-10-04 16:01:17 UTC
That would be just neato.
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#96 - 2012-10-04 16:01:36 UTC
There's a mention of kill rights, particularly that you get KR from a Criminal act being done against you, so according to the charts that's pod attacked in lowsec, assistants of a Criminal, or ship or pod attacked in highsec (whether it's destroyed or not).

Does this mean that kill rights for ship (not pod) destroyed in lowsec without aggressing back to the attacker have gone, or is that still in the new system?

--
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#97 - 2012-10-04 16:02:24 UTC
Lialem wrote:
DJ FunkyBacon wrote:
There really needs to be a way for 2 players to engage in a LE without the whole of eve getting involved.

As an example, at Eve Radio we do many tournaments (and I'm sure other entities hold competitions as well) using can flip mechanics to allow players to engage each other in highsec. With these new can flip mechanics, players will now be able to be attacked by anyone nearby.

I would like to see some sort of a challenge system where 2 players can agree to be flagged for an LE against each other without inviting the rest of Eve in on the fight.

Aside from that, I think the changes are brilliant.



You mean like a.... duel?.... maybe you want some arenas also.... maybe a battleground?..
Please no....


All we need is a way for 2 players to have a 1v1 in highsec without having to agress the entire universe. It wouldn't change the way EVE is, but it will just make life easier for ppl who just want to have a 1v1 with one of their friends for fun or training.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#98 - 2012-10-04 16:03:07 UTC
June Ting wrote:
Do flags persist when jumping between systems, or are they system-specific? I know I've had multiple cases under the old system where someone gets PVP-flagged on one side of a gate, gatecrashes, and logoffskies, and disappears from space 1 minute later rather than 15 minutes since they're in a different system.


Yes, flags will follow you wherever you go. Let's just say that trying to fix the issue you talked about under the old system had some exploit issues preventing us from doing it. With the new system, things are much better in this regard.

June Ting wrote:
Also, "The initiator of the action will get a PVP flag. If the recipient is a piloted ship, then the owner of this ship will also get a PVP flag." -- if a player is PVE flagged and logs off, and I scan them down under the new system, does putting a hit on their ship give them a fresh PVP timer, or do they disappear within 15 minutes of NPC aggression regardless of whether a player attacks them after they log off? (e.g. is their ship considered 'piloted' or not?)

By this, I was distinguishing between ships that have been ejected from and left floating in space, and ones that have a pilot in them (regardless of that pilot being logged in or not)
A PVP flag can only be created whilst logged on, but it can be extended whilst logged off (much like the current invisible logoff timer works today)

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#99 - 2012-10-04 16:03:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Shandir
Oh - question:

I don't see a way to do it, but under these new rules, is there ANY way to extend/reset another player's timer while they're not present or docked? Or can you only affect your own?

Because unexpected timer-extension is bad.
Sun Win
#100 - 2012-10-04 16:03:59 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Sun Win wrote:
Quote:
It is possible to be prevented from switching ships or ejecting (whilst in space) by your actions


So does this mean that we can no longer strategically eject to prevent skill loss from our Tech 3 cruisers blowing up?

This is not just oddly intentional, it is very intentional. If we didn't want to penalise T3 death, we simply wouldn't have the skillpoint-loss mechanic in the first place


That's unfortunate, given that when you guys announced Tech 3 on the Dev Blog, you said:

Quote:
Ejecting or self-destructing does prevent the penalty, giving players an incentive to abandon ship from time to time.


Now you've made it so that Tech 3 pilots can't abandon ship. It's not a huge deal, most Tech 3 ships go down fighting. But this was something that you originally included as an interesting gameplay choice that you are now removing.