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Dev blog: Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch

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Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#21 - 2012-10-04 15:12:12 UTC
Sounds like a great solution, but i got a question.

If I in lowsec attacks a player, who is an illegal target for me, and I destroy his ship I will get Suspect flag and the Sentry guns will shoot me during the combat. But if I warps out and warps back again (while still under the S flag) will they resume attacking me?

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-10-04 15:12:37 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Not sure why you get 15 minutes for ratting. Seems a bit over the top.


Simple, logging off in space when a hostile enters local isn't guaranteed to save you anymore.

Will shooting structures actually gain you an aggression flag now?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#23 - 2012-10-04 15:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jita Bloodtear
Just to clarify... this sounds like you're giving everyone the equivalent of a pvp logout timer for ratting. Does ratting count as NPC flagged aggression? Because if so that is a terrible decision, absolutely terrible, and you should feel bad.

Can non-offensive structures gain pvp aggression as a result of people shooting them? POCOs, stations, ihub, non-gunned towers? If we shoot them will we now gain pvp aggression or npc aggression? Will players repping them gain aggression for aiding them? This is relevant to a number of situations, such as carrier docking games on a station freshly out of reinforce (preventing them from redocking for X time), or tower defenses, etc
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#24 - 2012-10-04 15:14:57 UTC
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
Do I understand it correctly that if two players are in a Limited Engagement, and a third player reps one of the two, the third player becomes attackable by everyone and not just the people in the LE?


Thats how I understand it. But one of the two players will be attackable by everyone aswell since he was already flagged for something in the first place. The LE just allows him to defend himself without committing more crimes.

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CCP GingerDude
#25 - 2012-10-04 15:16:48 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
There is no character-to-character flagging any more..


I'm going to miss debugging the implicit cyclic graph of engagements so much ;(

Senior Server Programmer
SkyMeetFire
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-10-04 15:17:14 UTC
Well this looks to be a massive change to how logistics works, not just in highsec wars, but also in null. Goodbye station games and hello logi dying in gate fights. Seems like you won't be able to half commit for a fight. In a way that feels like a stealth nerf to armor ships though, as kiting and the ability to just run away from your target via burning or warping is sorta the domain on shield ships. Still waiting on those armor tanking changes....
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#27 - 2012-10-04 15:17:18 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
Do I understand it correctly that if two players are in a Limited Engagement, and a third player reps one of the two, the third player becomes attackable by everyone and not just the people in the LE?


Thats how I understand it. But one of the two players will be attackable by everyone aswell since he was already flagged for something in the first place. The LE just allows him to defend himself without committing more crimes.

Exactly this. Interfering in an LE will get you a suspect flag

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-10-04 15:18:51 UTC
Really like the proposed changes, although I'd like to see some more details on the LE/assistance stuff. If you help the criminal, you get a suspect or criminal flag, okay. But why should you become attackable by everyone (not just the other party in the engagement) by helping, for example, a newbie that is being attacked/ganked by pirates?

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Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe
#29 - 2012-10-04 15:20:38 UTC
Good changes overall, fixing a lot of issues.

One question remains: What about gang links? I would love to see neutral booster alts receive a suspects flag, or at the very least creating a special kind of limited engagement.

Minmatar Balancing, 3 suggestions.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-10-04 15:21:10 UTC
Aethlyn wrote:
But why should you become attackable by everyone (not just the other party in the engagement) by helping, for example, a newbie that is being attacked/ganked by pirates?


A GCC event is not a limited engagement. A limited engagement is one where a suspect is engaged by another player.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#31 - 2012-10-04 15:22:14 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
Sounds like a great solution, but i got a question.

If I in lowsec attacks a player, who is an illegal target for me, and I destroy his ship I will get Suspect flag and the Sentry guns will shoot me during the combat. But if I warps out and warps back again (while still under the S flag) will they resume attacking me?

No. They'll always shoot Criminals on-sight for as long as the Criminal has the flag, but for other acts they will only shoot you for as long as you stay in their vicinity after whatever action gave you a Suspect flag.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#32 - 2012-10-04 15:22:45 UTC
Aethlyn wrote:
Really like the proposed changes, although I'd like to see some more details on the LE/assistance stuff. If you help the criminal, you get a suspect or criminal flag, okay. But why should you become attackable by everyone (not just the other party in the engagement) by helping, for example, a newbie that is being attacked/ganked by pirates?


If the pirate attacks the newbie (which is an illegal target for the pirate) the pirate will become flagged. Which means you are allowed to attack the pirate or help the newbie without being flagged yourself. However if you attack the pirate (or rep the newbie) the pirate may attack you due to the LE, but you will still not be attackable by everyone else.

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Simon Severasse
Los Marginales
#33 - 2012-10-04 15:24:02 UTC
What happens if a fleet of 5 ships attack a suspect? This counts as a LE? Would any of them get the suspect flag? Roll
Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#34 - 2012-10-04 15:24:08 UTC
OMG I love a lot about this, but I have some q's:

Do wars count as LE?

How big are the front-loaded sec hits for lowsec suspect flagging?

Is the sec status drop limited to -4.9 for non-podders as mentioned at fanfest?

Are the restrictions to hisec being lifted for people between -4.9 and -2.0 as mentioned at fanfest?

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!
Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2012-10-04 15:25:00 UTC
An aggression/pvp flag .. revolutionary!

Please make sure changes of state to these flags are logged .. never more should the logs show nothing.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#36 - 2012-10-04 15:25:15 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Sounds like a great solution, but i got a question.

If I in lowsec attacks a player, who is an illegal target for me, and I destroy his ship I will get Suspect flag and the Sentry guns will shoot me during the combat. But if I warps out and warps back again (while still under the S flag) will they resume attacking me?

No. They'll always shoot Criminals on-sight for as long as the Criminal has the flag, but for other acts they will only shoot you for as long as you stay in their vicinity after whatever action gave you a Suspect flag.


But according to the first sheet I only get suspect flag for shooting a ship in lowsec. I only get criminal flag if I shoot his pod too. So if I only attacks his ship, can i warp out and warp back again without the sentries will resume shooting me?

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Dirael Papier
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#37 - 2012-10-04 15:26:32 UTC
So for the criminal flag.

If you blow up a pod in lowsec and jump to highsec while the flag is still active, all the highsec restrictions to warping, jumping, etc. go into effect and you just sit there at the gate until Concord kills you, correct?

Can you have a criminal flag while in your pod? (Either you pod someone in lowsec and then have your ship destroyed and warp to highsec in your pod, or because Concord just blew up your ship and left you in your pod)

Will Concord pod you? (Not sure if they do already. I've never been Concorded)

Once Concord exacts Justice on a criminal, do they keep the criminal flag for the remainder of the 15 minute timer such that undocking/reshipping would cause Concord to kill them again?
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#38 - 2012-10-04 15:26:46 UTC
Generally, this looks great.

Just a possibility: What if webbing another player didn't count as weapon activation? The reason being that (just) webbing a slow-aligning ship is as much a favor as anything else. Webbing NPCs would still count as weapon activation as long as they're too stupid to take the hint and warp off.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
#39 - 2012-10-04 15:27:16 UTC
Will the charts of flags/consequences be updated and published when the final version of CW2 goes live?

Fear God and Thread Nought
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#40 - 2012-10-04 15:28:44 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
But according to the first sheet I only get suspect flag for shooting a ship in lowsec. I only get criminal flag if I shoot his pod too. So if I only attacks his ship, can i warp out and warp back again without the sentries will resume shooting me?

If you warp out and back in with only a Suspect flag, the sentries will leave you alone.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law