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New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

First post First post First post
Author
Baron Agamemnon
Black Raven Corsairs
#2181 - 2011-10-15 21:29:34 UTC
seems like good changes
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2182 - 2011-10-15 22:08:19 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Supercaps can kill supercaps therefore supercaps aren't overpowered?

OK.


No you see its perfectly balanced because if you want to do anything outside of highsec you just have to get your own bigger supercap blob.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Xue Slick
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2183 - 2011-10-15 22:58:29 UTC
tldr the last 20 pages. Any updates from CCPs side on this blog?
L1m9n1663r
Doomheim
#2184 - 2011-10-15 23:22:13 UTC
L1m9n1663r wrote:
- When a ship can not be sensor boosted or tracking disrupted, it should not be possible to remote sensor boost or tracking link.
It makes no sense at all.


If you make cap size rigs, that should solve the issue with EHP without touching the numbers.
Make shield extender rigs and Armor extender rigs take 200 rig-power-thingies, so you then lose 1 rig slot if buffer tanking.
Make cap rigs only T1, that means tanked damage type HP * 1,15^2 instead of HP * 1,2^3. This will help for the HP's.

(Give the Hel some love first)

Destroy all T1 rigs in titans / supercaps (LOL-T1 rigs)
Make all T2 rigs the T1 cap size.
Any rigs that exeed the rig-power, eject rig in slot 3 to cargo bay.
--

Make a rig that takes 150 rig power that will allow you to field 250 m3 of HEAVY drones. That is, sentries, heavy armor/shield bots, heavy EW drones. This will again cost you 15% of your 'tanked' HP buffer. That means your SC will have 70% less shield if you want to field 20 regular drones.

--
Throw the Super pilots a bone...
Make Supercaps and Titans dock-able at stations with a SUPER CAP UPGRADE mod. This mod should cost 100 billion isk, and it should be impossible to board a super-cap if the station fitting services are off-line. Un-docking super caps should do so with 0 CAP and all high slots off-line. Gives people a reason to own some space.

--

Remove 1 gun / turret from each Titan.
Remove DD.

Make a titan sitting at a CUSTOM OFFICE, tapping into its coordinate flux power generator able to start a 5 min 2 way bridge to another titan within 3-5 AU, at another CUSTOM OFFICE. (able to run freighters through)

Give Amarr titans a 50km radius energy neutralizing field that triggers every 30 seconds while in 'enforcer mode' (as in, stuck there for 75 seconds) neuting like a medium neut, not stackable with other amarr titans.

Give Minmatar titans a 50km web-field. (not stackable with other minmatar titans) while in 'enforcer mode'.

Give Caldari titans a 25 km cloaking field, that will cloak any ship moving slower than 30 m/s and not targeting anyone. while in 'enforcer mode'.

Give Gallente titans a 40 km radius warp disruption field (same as large T2 bubble) with a scramble strength of 1. while in 'enforcer mode'.


Make Gallente and Minmatar able to trade each others Enforcement mods by use of a 200 power rig. (and Amarr / Caldari)


I fixed some typos.
wanking monkey girl
Doomheim
#2185 - 2011-10-15 23:29:11 UTC  |  Edited by: wanking monkey girl
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Supercaps can kill supercaps therefore supercaps aren't overpowered?

OK.


No you see its perfectly balanced because if you want to do anything outside of high sec you just have to get your own bigger supercap blob.

and thats coming from goons but they have a super cap fleet and space and all this issues about super cos pubbys can't fly supers

also their are no true goons in GSF its just a pubby alliance


Xue Slick wrote:
tldr the last 20 pages. Any updates from CCPs side on this blog?

nothing have poped up apart from the odd troll removed
Stealthiest
Dutch Trading Outpost
#2186 - 2011-10-16 00:54:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Stealthiest
FHM wrote:
Tore Vest wrote:
The dark side is strong in you FHM

+1 Death to these crappy and useless ships, we get so much by nerfing them. We get our game back, balanced pvp, get to see all these super capital noobs cry so much knowing they cant do **** and that SC Blob is about to die. Happy times finally the game braking part is being removed.


Balanced PVP?

You are re*tard*ed.

Team "A" brings 500 drakes requiring what 3-4m sp to fly? So just go to some stupid dotcom and recruit all your stupid something awful racist jerks to join for awhile and viola you have a ready made retar*d fleet. You can go anywhere at will.

Then you go into a system like c3n with your 500 drakes and guess what. 30 SC's and 7 titans are waiting. You go to wtfpwn the csaa and you get demolished. Thats the way it should be in a sandbox.

Because you can be stopped with your 500 drake bots with heartbeats you run to forums and whine like little bitches saying that the game is broken blah blah blah.

We are too scared/incapable/poor/small etc to defeat our enemy so DEV's do something to balance gthe game so we can win even tho we don't deserve it.

You calling everyone arguement stupid proves my point about small minded whiny little bitches. You once flew in a fleet and got lagged out and instead of blaming the 500-900 drake bots you blame SC's etc.

removing the AOE allowed for blobbing. Removing anything else that stops blobbing or at least counters it is stupid and short sighted.

Yeah I think Supercaps are broken but not for the reasons you constantly whine about.

Bring Back the AOE and that will stop the blob and force people to use strategy something that has been missing in the game since goons threadnaughted and got teh AOE removed.

The person with the most drake hurricanes or whatever the fotm will win.

I wonder who the 3 reta*rds were that gave you likes. Prolly your three alt accounts.
FHM
Doomheim
#2187 - 2011-10-16 01:42:06 UTC
Stealthiest wrote:
FHM wrote:
Tore Vest wrote:
The dark side is strong in you FHM

+1 Death to these crappy and useless ships, we get so much by nerfing them. We get our game back, balanced pvp, get to see all these super capital noobs cry so much knowing they cant do **** and that SC Blob is about to die. Happy times finally the game braking part is being removed.


Balanced PVP?

You are re*tard*ed.

Team "A" brings 500 drakes requiring what 3-4m sp to fly? So just go to some stupid dotcom and recruit all your stupid something awful racist jerks to join for awhile and viola you have a ready made retar*d fleet. You can go anywhere at will.

Then you go into a system like c3n with your 500 drakes and guess what. 30 SC's and 7 titans are waiting. You go to wtfpwn the csaa and you get demolished. Thats the way it should be in a sandbox.

Because you can be stopped with your 500 drake bots with heartbeats you run to forums and whine like little bitches saying that the game is broken blah blah blah.

We are too scared/incapable/poor/small etc to defeat our enemy so DEV's do something to balance gthe game so we can win even tho we don't deserve it.

You calling everyone arguement stupid proves my point about small minded whiny little bitches. You once flew in a fleet and got lagged out and instead of blaming the 500-900 drake bots you blame SC's etc.

removing the AOE allowed for blobbing. Removing anything else that stops blobbing or at least counters it is stupid and short sighted.

Yeah I think Supercaps are broken but not for the reasons you constantly whine about.

Bring Back the AOE and that will stop the blob and force people to use strategy something that has been missing in the game since goons threadnaughted and got teh AOE removed.

The person with the most drake hurricanes or whatever the fotm will win.

I wonder who the 3 reta*rds were that gave you likes. Prolly your three alt accounts.



Your alliance all the way back to its roots has been backed up by the idea of a super capital blob. You provided no argument 500 drakes alone should be able to kill entire super capital fleet no matter the size that is stupid enough to go out without proper sub capital support that is how its so-pose to work.

We have your logic implemented right now and it's not making any change.

Let me ask you this lets leave super carriers as they are but make logistic have 99% resists against drones and have their repair amount increased by so much that 1 guardian alone can repair 1 target whit 1 armor repair for entire damage a Nyx can do and he can repair 5 people at the same time for that amount of damage.

See balanced by your logic.

Giving Titan a AOE DD was CCP's temporary solution and a failed quick attempt at trying to fix lag in large fleet fights.
Your logic is flawed because if i take 300 Machariels whit 8 Billion fits each i still wont be able to fight a super capital blob. So cry all you want but SUPER CAPITAL BLOB and SOLO SUPER CAPITAL ideas are dead after this nerf and ****** alliances that call them selves power block like yours will have to prove them selves on even plane whit others or be erased like a pathetic thing you are right now when you field a super capital fleet against a 10 man BS gang.
Metal Dude
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2188 - 2011-10-16 03:33:22 UTC
Once again you fkn morons! The problem is the blob, NAPs and numbers instead of skill. The only thing the nurf will bring to the game is bigger blob, since there is no counter to it. CCP and all you ****** can never see the real issue, it has been like this for fkn 5 years and no matter how you balance the ships, it will always be there until the game discourages blobbing instead of encouraging it. But the loudest voice is that of the goons who always whine about nerfing the only counter to their blob that there is and since CCP has been bending over like a little ***** in heat to the goons for years, this game has been **** and it will continue to be ****. No nerf will change that, it will only bring more whines of "CCP, fix your game" when 3K blob cant do **** due to the lag that the nerf will bring. Idiots.
Tore Vest
#2189 - 2011-10-16 04:56:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tore Vest
To ppl that says that supers are overpowered and cant be killed.
Look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj9kKF9LhaM&feature=player_embedded
An exelent made video .
To bad that CCP is ruining this now. Cry

Again... well done Init Big smile

No troll.

Samanta Raiolaser
SPTC-IC
#2190 - 2011-10-16 05:42:43 UTC
FHM wrote:

Let me ask you this lets leave super carriers as they are but make logistic have 99% resists against drones and have their repair amount increased by so much that 1 guardian alone can repair 1 target whit 1 armor repair for entire damage a Nyx can do and he can repair 5 people at the same time for that amount of damage.



OMG you have NO idea how this game works... WTF are you doing here?

Logis can and should stay WAY out of regular drone range, and fighters already cant hit them for ****.

Why the hell do you think you are qualified to make any kind of sugestion when all you do is trow unrealistc numbers and situations... Please, excuse yourself and let those who have any idea how supercarriers work to point out what is broken. Just stop, get back into the game(friendly tip:Idea you cant learn those things doing incursions)...stop with the forum pvp, go get some experience so you can stop making a fool of yourself by saying what YOU think its how is supposed to work and how its not when actually you know jack **** about how EVE works today.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2191 - 2011-10-16 07:55:48 UTC
Metal Dude wrote:
Once again you fkn morons! The problem is the blob, NAPs and numbers instead of skill. The only thing the nurf will bring to the game is bigger blob, since there is no counter to it. CCP and all you ****** can never see the real issue, it has been like this for fkn 5 years and no matter how you balance the ships, it will always be there until the game discourages blobbing instead of encouraging it. But the loudest voice is that of the goons who always whine about nerfing the only counter to their blob that there is and since CCP has been bending over like a little ***** in heat to the goons for years, this game has been **** and it will continue to be ****. No nerf will change that, it will only bring more whines of "CCP, fix your game" when 3K blob cant do **** due to the lag that the nerf will bring. Idiots.

"Its not fair! I got a supercap which means I'm an Elite Pee Vee Peer! Look at all my SP, I should be able to kill as many of the untermenschen, at no risk to myself, as I like!"

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2192 - 2011-10-16 08:09:15 UTC
Tore Vest wrote:
To ppl that says that supers are overpowered and cant be killed.
Look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj9kKF9LhaM&feature=player_embedded

Thanks for the link to a group of supercaps being killed by a bigger group of supercaps.

Nice strawman too, since nobody is arguing that supercaps "can't be killed".

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

XPistolX
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2193 - 2011-10-16 08:42:47 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:

Thanks for the link to a group of supercaps being killed by a smaller group of supercaps.



Fixed for ya.


Evekill is down now, but IIRC they did it against a bigger supercap fleet, but with a good support fleet.

And ppl that goes 3:1 everyday in subcap numbers are too scared to drop supers.... So they drop tears on the forums.
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#2194 - 2011-10-16 09:53:53 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Supercaps can kill supercaps therefore supercaps aren't overpowered?

OK.


No you see its perfectly balanced because if you want to do anything outside of highsec you just have to get your own bigger supercap blob.



Are you trying to say you can manage a 45000 member coalition. Get 2 people from your own alliance elected to the CSM. However your entire group can muster to produce a supercapital force? CFC milks 60+ tech moons alone not counting other R64's. I would think that you are mismanaging your isk as alliances or spending it unwisely. Don't be hatin because you made bad strategic decisions.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny

Mag's
Azn Empire
#2195 - 2011-10-16 10:22:30 UTC
zero2espect wrote:
So i think that this is page 86 of a forum thread. I know i am wasting my time because a. it's page 86 of a forum thread and b. i've been playing eve since beta and CCP have never, once, listed to any advice or comment from its fan base (ok, maybe once when zealots only had 4 guns). But at least leaving a comment will make me feel better.

It’s obvious to me that the number of players are dropping. the fury of recent blogs are designed to re-energise people into staying. Unfortunately, the changes that are listed as CCPs solutions are just ill thought through, knee jerk reactions by people so far removed from the playing of the game it makes me furious.

My preface is that the very people who have been paying subs for the last 5 years, the people who are growing tired of the game because it is broken, are being placed even more offside by these stupid changes. People who have invested millions of SP and billions of isk into capitals are being killed through stupid misconceptions about how they are used.

For me, the 15min logoffski timer would fix 40% of the issue anyway. Just by itself.

Stop capitals in missions. Just stop them.

Another point is that there needs to be a mechanic separating 0.0 and low-sec. in 0.0 let the big boys duke it out for the billions of moon goo and the like – jump the titans, supers and dreads around all you want. Have different rules for them – they’re fighting for sov, let them bring out the bling – max bonuses. In low sec there needs to be protection for the 3643 (or whatever) corps of 50 people or less who want to pvp without the threat of their 5 baddons, 2 megas and scorp being dropped on by 15 SCs just because it’s fun on a Friday night. Limit the amount of ships that can jump through a cyno into low sec. Prevent fleets with more than 5 caps cynoing into a system. Implement a cyno cool-down onto fleets. Halve the bonuses due to security scanning protocols in low sec. Do something. You dont need to screw supers to fix the prob.

Dreads. Halving the siege time. Perfect. Removal of drones. Stupid. It’s ~1.8b of ships before mods and now has zero defence, in or out of siege. Put the drones back and don’t try to fix lag through cheating us.

Supers. Where do I start. Forget your stupid idea with the drones. Listen, just give the super enough drone bay for 10 bombers and 5-10 fighters and halve the amount of drones able to be deployed at once. Balance this with an additional % of damage per level. Make the pilot choose between putting in bombers, fighters (cap vs bs shooting) and/or any mix of standard drones they wish – a super with 10 sentries/heavies/jamming drones isn’t going to win the next fight in delve but makes a difference to a guy bumped off a pos tackled by a hic and being bumped by 2 machs. Remove the bonuses that allow SC only fleets to remote rep each – force commanders to mix up fleets for reps. Change the ecm burst so that it uses stront so that there is a finite amount of bursting that can be accomplished. The EHP drop is there purely for SC haters – but again it’s stupid. If people are flying supercaps they’ve earned the right to have some ehp buffer. The logoffski rules provide a means that committed smaller fleets have a chance at a kill if they deserve it. I’d be happy to see that the hanger bay and corp hangers on supers be taken away so that they are pure combat ships and must rely on other jump capable ships for logistical support, amp up the fuel bay if you do this.

Titans. Remove the ability to bridge fleets or make it prohibitively expensive/limited – e.g. costs much much more or limits the number of ships similar to a wormhole (more smaller ships, few bigger ships). Fleet fight suppression is more based on the fear of massive-hostile-fleets bridging in rather than OMG 35 titans have jumped in. make the distinction between titan and super not guns but the DD and (rebalanced) jump portal. I can tell you for free that having an erebus gate camping in low sec instapowning anything with guns does not make for a fun eve (and unable to do anything because within range there are 12 supers waiting to jump in and take down anybody dumb enough to counter).

When will CCP learn that nothing good comes from BIG changes to anything. In a complex environment like EVE is, you can never understand what will happen when you make even little changes, and big changes are completely random in how they play out. Let’s be honest, CCPs record of deploying quality changes and balancing and game features is not stellar – this smells like more of the same. This whole situation came about because of a BIG change to motherships to become supers. This is like a roundabout now.

For the love of god, instead of making all these changes do 1 or 2 like I suggest, see what happens. if it’s not enough in a month do another one, then another one. Half of why we hate you CCP is that you hype up all these big changes and they never deliver what was promised. Promise less, do more small things and keep your current players happy. You may be trying to grow the game but at this rate you wont grow faster than people will leave if you keep doing crazy wholesale changes that effect people with BILLIONS invested into your universe.

I don’t have a super but I’m not on the bandwagon of NERF THE SUPERS! just because I don’t have one. I want to aspire to one day have one on this toon and the way things are going there is nothing beneficial in “wanting more” out of this game. I might as well stop producing items, buying plexes and adding value to the game and just fly ceptors and cruisers because at least when you **** them up I won’t be throwing billions down the toilet.

You’d get just as much love out of non-capital pilots if you just fixed low sec and militia and bring in some new sub-capital ships into the game.
Good post.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2196 - 2011-10-16 10:46:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
XPistolX wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:

Thanks for the link to a group of supercaps being killed by a smaller group of supercaps.



Fixed for ya.


Evekill is down now, but IIRC they did it against a bigger supercap fleet, but with a good support fleet.


Nope. The raw killboard reports include some of the blob of White Noise/Raiden etc supercaps which bailed out the remaining RA fleet (the ones which appear on the report are there because they zapped a few straggling subcaps as the Curse guys disengaged, I'm assuming that more came in but didn't get onto any mails) but who weren't on the field when all the RA titans died.

http://kb.redalliance.pro/?op=related&id=526239 is up at the moment if you want to take some time to analyse the data - look at the participation of the Raiden/WhiteNoise supercaps, of those that got onto the report at all, all have only one kill because as soon as they showed up, the supercap numbers went against Curse, and they bailed.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#2197 - 2011-10-16 10:55:19 UTC
Quote:
When will CCP learn that nothing good comes from BIG changes to anything. In a complex environment like EVE is, you can never understand what will happen when you make even little changes, and big changes are completely random in how they play out. Let’s be honest, CCPs record of deploying quality changes and balancing and game features is not stellar – this smells like more of the same. This whole situation came about because of a BIG change to motherships to become supers. This is like a roundabout now.

For the love of god, instead of making all these changes do 1 or 2 like I suggest, see what happens. if it’s not enough in a month do another one, then another one. Half of why we hate you CCP is that you hype up all these big changes and they never deliver what was promised. Promise less, do more small things and keep your current players happy. You may be trying to grow the game but at this rate you wont grow faster than people will leave if you keep doing crazy wholesale changes that effect people with BILLIONS invested into your universe.



That made sense to me... I don't really understand the adversion they have with people internrally with a job to regularly tweak algortihms .... there needs to be some discipline to be sure moves are gradual... no one wants things random or to get suddenly blindsided by something that hadn't been at least floated conceptually repeatedly...

.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2198 - 2011-10-16 11:19:01 UTC
Metal Dude wrote:
Once again you fkn morons! The problem is the blob, NAPs and numbers instead of skill. The only thing the nurf will bring to the game is bigger blob, since there is no counter to it. CCP and all you ****** can never see the real issue, it has been like this for fkn 5 years and no matter how you balance the ships, it will always be there until the game discourages blobbing instead of encouraging it. But the loudest voice is that of the goons who always whine about nerfing the only counter to their blob that there is and since CCP has been bending over like a little ***** in heat to the goons for years, this game has been **** and it will continue to be ****. No nerf will change that, it will only bring more whines of "CCP, fix your game" when 3K blob cant do **** due to the lag that the nerf will bring. Idiots.



The "We plucky rebels deserve to have super-imba-instapwn ships to FIGHT THE EVIL POWER" argument kind of falls over when the "plucky rebels" are part of a coalition that controls over 60% of sov 0.0

You're not the Luke Skywalkers in this show man.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2199 - 2011-10-16 11:20:08 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Supercaps can kill supercaps therefore supercaps aren't overpowered?

OK.


No you see its perfectly balanced because if you want to do anything outside of highsec you just have to get your own bigger supercap blob.



Are you trying to say you can manage a 45000 member coalition. Get 2 people from your own alliance elected to the CSM. However your entire group can muster to produce a supercapital force? CFC milks 60+ tech moons alone not counting other R64's. I would think that you are mismanaging your isk as alliances or spending it unwisely. Don't be hatin because you made bad strategic decisions.


You mean "strategic decisions" like throwing your alliance mates under a bus and joining the winning team?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#2200 - 2011-10-16 12:24:15 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:

Are you trying to say you can manage a 45000 member coalition. Get 2 people from your own alliance elected to the CSM. However your entire group can muster to produce a supercapital force? CFC milks 60+ tech moons alone not counting other R64's. I would think that you are mismanaging your isk as alliances or spending it unwisely. Don't be hatin because you made bad strategic decisions.


The thing that you don't seem to get is that it's possible to have a large supercap fleet and still think that supercaps are **** and need to be fixed. I've built (as just one of several builders in GSF) a tremendous number of titans and supercarriers in the last 12 months, but fact still remains that supercarriers are hilariously badly implemented right now.