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NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#821 - 2012-09-05 04:57:32 UTC
Tragedy wrote:
OP I thought you rage quit when they nerfed incursions? Yet here you are whining some more. That's all I see out if you. Thank you. People like you who get so emo about nonsense make me appreciate my already great life even more.

Yeah well, I guess he didn't give away his stuff, so he's back to make posts in the hopes the evil gankers or whatever won't take away his (untanked and afk) stuff.

Or something. Anyway we need to stop the ganking.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
C0medy
Doomheim
#822 - 2012-09-05 05:04:23 UTC
Tragedy wrote:
OP I thought you rage quit when they nerfed incursions? Yet here you are whining some more. That's all I see out if you. Thank you. People like you who get so emo about nonsense make me appreciate my already great life even more.


Edit autocorrect is a basturd

tag team
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#823 - 2012-09-05 05:32:53 UTC
I should run as the Anarchy Party Candidate. If elected, I promise to never show up for CSM meetings, never go to their events, never show up for work, never collect a paycheck, never vote on anything and never care about what CCP is going to do next.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#824 - 2012-09-05 05:38:10 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
I should run as the Anarchy Party Candidate. If elected, I promise to never show up for CSM meetings, never go to their events, never show up for work, never collect a paycheck, never vote on anything and never care about what CCP is going to do next.


So all accounts that don't vote, should go to you?!? Fits the theme. Enjoy your 68 pt victory lol...Blink

James315 for CSM 8!
Frying Doom
#825 - 2012-09-05 06:54:26 UTC
I have found the perfect reason why the CSM should not be the council of minorities.

Tippia wrote:
Nah. Vote Tippia for Highsec CSM8. Twisted


Given that the CSM has started trials for including the CSM earlier into the development process.

Performance artist will send us back to the dark times of the CSM

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#826 - 2012-09-05 06:55:55 UTC
foxnod wrote:
Nullseccers tend to have more paying accounts than highseccers, which means our money is in fact worth more than theirs.


EvE went F2P and I didn't get a memo? Dang!

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#827 - 2012-09-05 07:16:29 UTC
I think it is time we have 'official' representatives instead of a popular vote lets spit the CSM's into regional electorate districts based on population distribution from Dr E's last fanfest statistics of where characters live total of 10 CSM's:
2 NULL 1WH 1Lo 6 HI SEC
Bear
DISCUSS Blink
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#828 - 2012-09-05 07:24:38 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
-The Incursion nerf killed null & lo sec communities

The incursion feature in and of itself helped kill null, lowsec and probably even WH populations. When incursions were nerfed, some of them probably moved back.

DarthNefarius wrote:
-What I really thing any HI SEC representative worth his salt should bring up is CCP Soundwaves comments in the Ten Ton Hammer interview propsing a 10% across the board cut in bounties which I don't recall CSM7discussing except maybe in the part where they were saying all EVE is space rich.

See, this is exactly why I keep saying that a hisec rep would probably end up being bad for the game. "abloo bloo bloo they're going to reduce our payouts, FIX IT!", even if it's for the good of the game, and a very, very necessary move.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#829 - 2012-09-05 07:29:46 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
like the NULL centric CSM sped up the Wardeck dogpiling process

This is about as far away from the truth as you can get. CCP initiated the changes within 48 hours of the wardec mechanics going live, because everyone (yes, even hisec people) told CCP that the allies part of the wardec mechanic would just get dogpiled by everyone. Unsurprisingly, it was dogpiled within a few hours, so CCP began the process of redesigning that aspect of the wardec mechanic, well before anyone in nullsec had a chance to give a ****.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#830 - 2012-09-05 08:12:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Lord Zim wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
-The Incursion nerf killed null & lo sec communities

The incursion feature in and of itself helped kill null, lowsec and probably even WH populations. When incursions were nerfed, some of them probably moved back.

DarthNefarius wrote:
-What I really thing any HI SEC representative worth his salt should bring up is CCP Soundwaves comments in the Ten Ton Hammer interview propsing a 10% across the board cut in bounties which I don't recall CSM7discussing except maybe in the part where they were saying all EVE is space rich.

See, this is exactly why I keep saying that a hisec rep would probably end up being bad for the game. "abloo bloo bloo they're going to reduce our payouts, FIX IT!", even if it's for the good of the game, and a very, very necessary move.

Actually given the answers as to why something requiring such a small amount of resorces should not be done.

Those being

  • They are educated enough
  • It would use resources
  • 16.63% is good enough representation


The same arguments could be used for why Null sec should stay the stagnant heap it is now.

  • It is fixed enough, any more would be pointless, especially as Null has shown several times that it does not want to be fixed.
  • It would use a lot of resources
  • 20.05% is good enough


You would like something fixed that would require a massive amount of resources that the majority of players do not want (If they wanted it they would vote for CSM reps from Null). If they were more educated in why null sec should be fixed more people might support the idea but you believe they are too educated now...

As I have said before a minority CSM only means CCP can ignore it, the bigger the support the better the CSM we get and the more influence it will have.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#831 - 2012-09-05 09:05:23 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Actually given the answers as to why something requiring such a small amount of resorces should not be done.

Those being

  • They are educated enough
  • It would use resources
  • 16.63% is good enough representation


The same arguments could be used for why Null sec should stay the stagnant heap it is now.

  • It is fixed enough, any more would be pointless, especially as Null has shown several times that it does not want to be fixed.
  • It would use a lot of resources
  • 20.05% is good enough

You really are reaching, now. Those two aren't even remotely in the same ballpark. One is someone looking at a number and going "THAT IS TOO SMALL", and the other is a bunch of sucking chest wounds which, if left untreated, will kill the game.

Frying Doom wrote:
You would like something fixed that would require a massive amount of resources that the majority of players do not want (If they wanted it they would vote for CSM reps from Null). If they were more educated in why null sec should be fixed more people might support the idea but you believe they are too educated now...

CCP will not go under just beacuse they didn't program up a nagging and annoying as **** VOTE OR ABSTAIN dialog box upon login (and actually, if pressing abstain here actually meant that they abstained fully from that account, with no way of voting through the webpage, then you'd get a lot of false abstains), whereas they will go under unless they make nullsec and lowsec into much more vibrant areas of space. Why? Because CCP basically only lives for as long as EVE generates press of awesome fights, great clashes and awesome heists. If that dries up, so too does the playerbase.

Sure, the hisec people'll pat themselves on the back about how necessary they are for CCP's bottom line, but if you take away the awesome press nullsec conflicts have traditionally given CCP, what you're left with is a dry husk with a pretty detailed economic simulation, and there's only so much you can play this before you start thinking "why don't I play X3 instead?", or as I'm doing, waiting for a friend of mine to finish his game engine so we can start building our own space strategy game.

I don't think anyone ever comes to EVE thinking "yes, I'm going to spend all day mining, because that's so much fun" or "yes, I'm going to watch these PI/invention/build timers tick down, because that's so much fun", they come for the vague promise they can Be Someone. Squander that, and EVE the game starts on its death rattle.

Frying Doom wrote:
As I have said before a minority CSM only means CCP can ignore it, the bigger the support the better the CSM we get and the more influence it will have.

And it'll come in due time as people change their own minds from "I don't give a ****" to "I do actually give a ****". This can only happen if people are affected by something either the CSM actively influenced CCP into doing (like nerfing JBs did), or something CCP did which the CSM weren't consulted of beforehand (monoclegate).

Putting up abstain/vote dialog boxes upon login will do none of these things, all it'll do is **** people off and give CCP bad data, or if vote/abstain through the logon page is the only avenue for voting/abstaining, a lot of people who would otherwise end up actually voting will most likely end up abstaining just to get in the game because they're logging in to the client for a reason. Spamming people with CSM mail will only end up in them whining about the CSM spamming them, etc etc etc.

You can't force people to care, you can only hope they will care.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Signal11th
#832 - 2012-09-05 09:05:53 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
-The Incursion nerf killed null & lo sec communities

The incursion feature in and of itself helped kill null, lowsec and probably even WH populations. When incursions were nerfed, some of them probably moved back.

DarthNefarius wrote:
-What I really thing any HI SEC representative worth his salt should bring up is CCP Soundwaves comments in the Ten Ton Hammer interview propsing a 10% across the board cut in bounties which I don't recall CSM7discussing except maybe in the part where they were saying all EVE is space rich.

See, this is exactly why I keep saying that a hisec rep would probably end up being bad for the game. "abloo bloo bloo they're going to reduce our payouts, FIX IT!", even if it's for the good of the game, and a very, very necessary move.

Actually given the answers as to why something requiring such a small amount of resorces should not be done.

Those being

  • They are educated enough
  • It would use resources
  • 16.63% is good enough representation


The same arguments could be used for why Null sec should stay the stagnant heap it is now.

  • It is fixed enough, any more would be pointless, especially as Null has shown several times that it does not want to be fixed.
  • It would use a lot of resources
  • 20.05% is good enough


You would like something fixed that would require a massive amount of resources that the majority of players do not want (If they wanted it they would vote for CSM reps from Null). If they were more educated in why null sec should be fixed more people might support the idea but you believe they are too educated now...

As I have said before a minority CSM only means CCP can ignore it, the bigger the support the better the CSM we get and the more influence it will have.



Jesus is this still going on, I tell you what next CSM elections I'll represent High-Sec, I've got plenty of experience which follows:

A: I've flown in it a few times
B: I have done a few missions
C: I know it's quite large
D: I will campaign for the people who don't want anyone to campaign for them.
E: I have a large feeling of self-entitlement.

Cool vote for me and worst case I'll guarantee to beat Martini in any drinking game (not an idle boast either) so after all is said and done High-Sec can say they beat 0.0 sec on one thing at least.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Frying Doom
#833 - 2012-09-05 09:33:20 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

You really are reaching, now. Those two aren't even remotely in the same ballpark. One is someone looking at a number and going "THAT IS TOO SMALL", and the other is a bunch of sucking chest wounds which, if left untreated, will kill the game.

My main point was the weak excuses used as to why the players should not be further educated can be used to deny anything at all from happening.

Lord Zim wrote:


You can't force people to care, you can only hope they will care.

No but you can try to educate them. Falling not to is a worse crime than trying to educate them.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#834 - 2012-09-05 09:35:41 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
My main point was the weak excuses used as to why the players should not be further educated can be used to deny anything at all from happening.

You can't further educate those who are already educated, but just don't give a ****.

Frying Doom wrote:
No but you can try to educate them. Falling not to is a worse crime than trying to educate them.

You can't further educate those who are already educated, but just don't give a ****.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#835 - 2012-09-05 09:44:36 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
I think it is time we have 'official' representatives instead of a popular vote lets spit the CSM's into regional electorate districts based on population distribution from Dr E's last fanfest statistics of where characters live total of 10 CSM's:
2 NULL 1WH 1Lo 6 HI SEC
Bear
DISCUSS Blink


Why?

Why people who don't care and who don't know anything about the game should have 6 representatives?

What would be on the agenda of hisec reps?

.
Cass Lie
State War Academy
Caldari State
#836 - 2012-09-05 10:26:45 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
I think it is time we have 'official' representatives instead of a popular vote lets spit the CSM's into regional electorate districts based on population distribution from Dr E's last fanfest statistics of where characters live total of 10 CSM's:
2 NULL 1WH 1Lo 6 HI SEC
Bear
DISCUSS Blink


CCP Xhagen said during the last CSM public voice chat that he doesn't like the solution, but is willing to at least consider it if there is enough demand. I also don't think this is a good idea, mainly because you can't simply label people wh/null/low/high sec. Take me for example, I currently spend about the same amount of time in high/low/null sec and sometime I go for some pew pew even to the wormholes.

I demand then a third of a vote for each security bloc!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#837 - 2012-09-05 10:27:04 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
I think it is time we have 'official' representatives instead of a popular vote lets spit the CSM's into regional electorate districts based on population distribution from Dr E's last fanfest statistics of where characters live total of 10 CSM's:
2 NULL 1WH 1Lo 6 HI SEC
Bear
DISCUSS Blink



Here's your discussion: apathetic mission runners and ice miners still won't vote. Hi-sec alts of 0.0 players will carve up those 6 seats between them and totally own the CSM even more easily than they do now.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#838 - 2012-09-05 10:28:55 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
-The Incursion nerf killed null & lo sec communities

The incursion feature in and of itself helped kill null, lowsec and probably even WH populations. When incursions were nerfed, some of them probably moved back.

DarthNefarius wrote:
-What I really thing any HI SEC representative worth his salt should bring up is CCP Soundwaves comments in the Ten Ton Hammer interview propsing a 10% across the board cut in bounties which I don't recall CSM7discussing except maybe in the part where they were saying all EVE is space rich.

See, this is exactly why I keep saying that a hisec rep would probably end up being bad for the game. "abloo bloo bloo they're going to reduce our payouts, FIX IT!", even if it's for the good of the game, and a very, very necessary move.

Actually given the answers as to why something requiring such a small amount of resorces should not be done.

Those being

  • They are educated enough
  • It would use resources
  • 16.63% is good enough representation


The same arguments could be used for why Null sec should stay the stagnant heap it is now.

  • It is fixed enough, any more would be pointless, especially as Null has shown several times that it does not want to be fixed.
  • It would use a lot of resources
  • 20.05% is good enough


You would like something fixed that would require a massive amount of resources that the majority of players do not want (If they wanted it they would vote for CSM reps from Null). If they were more educated in why null sec should be fixed more people might support the idea but you believe they are too educated now...

As I have said before a minority CSM only means CCP can ignore it, the bigger the support the better the CSM we get and the more influence it will have.



Jesus is this still going on, I tell you what next CSM elections I'll represent High-Sec, I've got plenty of experience which follows:

A: I've flown in it a few times
B: I have done a few missions
C: I know it's quite large
D: I will campaign for the people who don't want anyone to campaign for them.
E: I have a large feeling of self-entitlement.

Cool vote for me and worst case I'll guarantee to beat Martini in any drinking game (not an idle boast either) so after all is said and done High-Sec can say they beat 0.0 sec on one thing at least.


But you dont believe than non consensual PvP should be punishable by prison sentences... that's gonna be a big negative for you man, I dunno. Maybe if you hire Karl Rove as your campaign manager?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#839 - 2012-09-05 10:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
My main point was the weak excuses used as to why the players should not be further educated can be used to deny anything at all from happening.

You can't further educate those who are already educated, but just don't give a ****.

Frying Doom wrote:
No but you can try to educate them. Falling not to is a worse crime than trying to educate them.

You can't further educate those who are already educated, but just don't give a ****.



I doubt it is an education issue TBH: I think its more of a look at who we got to vote for issue so many acreoss all of EVE do not vote. I BET IF WE HAVE -1 VOTES THEN WE'D SEE A SHARP INCREASE IN VOTINGAttention
And if in any year all the CSM candidates get negitive votes then we'd suspend the CSM for a year Shocked
Maybe we should have a general referendum and aNONE OF THE ABOVE voting option & if it exceeds the combined votes for all the candidates CSM would be suspended Idea

Trololo give us the option of a NO CONFIDENCE VOTE TO DISSOLVE THE CSM Twisted
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Frying Doom
#840 - 2012-09-05 10:33:19 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
My main point was the weak excuses used as to why the players should not be further educated can be used to deny anything at all from happening.

You can't further educate those who are already educated, but just don't give a ****.

Frying Doom wrote:
No but you can try to educate them. Falling not to is a worse crime than trying to educate them.

You can't further educate those who are already educated, but just don't give a ****.

Governments try and succeed to some degree in every democratic election in the world. On top of that you have the candidates themselves advertising and trying to get people to vote. Now this is major money trying to get people involved in the voting process. If the people who study the voters believe that trying to continue to reach the apathetic voter why do you believe you are able to predict the reactions of voters to education and advertising better than a paid professionals.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!