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New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

First post First post First post
Author
FHM
Doomheim
#2041 - 2011-10-14 17:55:42 UTC
wanking monkey girl wrote:


Dreads having to siege and titans and supers not seems that they want them to not to have to commit to a fight.Titans are immobile for a very short time if they use the DD but its so short that seems nothing major at all.

[/quote]

titans can't move for 30 seconds after firing the DD but they cannot jump for 10 minutes or cloak.

also to the cap for titans i will say Ragnarok.[/quote]

You are wining the field enemy has Dreads and Titans on field titans DD and start to run you just pin them down whit HICTORS easy as 1,2,3... Dreads are slow and not immune to warp scramble the frigates and stealth bombers will finish them..

It makes no sense for them to have Triage or Sige module...
FHM
Doomheim
#2042 - 2011-10-14 17:55:48 UTC
wanking monkey girl wrote:


Dreads having to siege and titans and supers not seems that they want them to not to have to commit to a fight.Titans are immobile for a very short time if they use the DD but its so short that seems nothing major at all.

[/quote]

titans can't move for 30 seconds after firing the DD but they cannot jump for 10 minutes or cloak.

also to the cap for titans i will say Ragnarok.[/quote]

You are wining the field enemy has Dreads and Titans on field titans DD and start to run you just pin them down whit HICTORS easy as 1,2,3... Dreads are slow and not immune to warp scramble the frigates and stealth bombers will finish them..

It makes no sense for them to have Triage or Sige module...
Goose Sokarad
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2043 - 2011-10-14 18:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose Sokarad
Titans not moving for 30 seconds,no jumping or cloaking for 10 minutes isnt anything major for a titan pilot that jumps into a system and DD a lone carrier then warps around for a bit before jumps back out.This hasnt happen to me by the way i know someone that does it.
wanking monkey girl
Doomheim
#2044 - 2011-10-14 18:08:00 UTC
Goose Sokarad wrote:
Titans not moving for 30 seconds,no jumping or cloaking for 10 minutes isnt anything major for a titan pilot that jumps into a system and DD a lone carrier then warps around for a bit before jumps back out.This hasnt happen to me by the way i know someone that does it.

we all know someone that it happened too but the point being that titans have their set backs

to the idiot rambling about the suggestions i made carry on
FHM
Doomheim
#2045 - 2011-10-14 18:14:15 UTC
wanking monkey girl wrote:
Goose Sokarad wrote:
Titans not moving for 30 seconds,no jumping or cloaking for 10 minutes isnt anything major for a titan pilot that jumps into a system and DD a lone carrier then warps around for a bit before jumps back out.This hasnt happen to me by the way i know someone that does it.

we all know someone that it happened too but the point being that titans have their set backs

to the idiot rambling about the suggestions i made carry on


You suggestion makes not sense 500m3 is just enough for 20 Ogers T2... and we are back to Super Capitals being dominant on the field let your super carrier buddy unleash 20 Ogers against your max possible fited BS they will eat it like its nothing..

Making them pick between Fighters and Fighter Bombers is great. Either pick Fighters to use against bigger sub capital ships say large signature BS and structures or Fighter Bombers against Super Capitals and Capitals.
Goose Sokarad
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2046 - 2011-10-14 18:15:57 UTC
I dont consider the titan drawbacks that major is all im saying.Titans and supers will still be used as solo pwn mobiles but if easier to tackle is all good.
FHM
Doomheim
#2047 - 2011-10-14 18:17:03 UTC
Goose Sokarad wrote:
Titans not moving for 30 seconds,no jumping or cloaking for 10 minutes isnt anything major for a titan pilot that jumps into a system and DD a lone carrier then warps around for a bit before jumps back out.This hasnt happen to me by the way i know someone that does it.


Good luck on that. Nano Titan cant align and warp fast enough for a probe'er to catch him let alone a standard fit. It takes me 9s to scan down a titan at a safe to be able to warp to him. A titan that would after this patch do something like that is pretty much dead moments after.
Goose Sokarad
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2048 - 2011-10-14 18:20:24 UTC
We will see FHM.
wanking monkey girl
Doomheim
#2049 - 2011-10-14 18:21:09 UTC
FHM wrote:
wanking monkey girl wrote:
Goose Sokarad wrote:
Titans not moving for 30 seconds,no jumping or cloaking for 10 minutes isnt anything major for a titan pilot that jumps into a system and DD a lone carrier then warps around for a bit before jumps back out.This hasnt happen to me by the way i know someone that does it.

we all know someone that it happened too but the point being that titans have their set backs

to the idiot rambling about the suggestions i made carry on


You suggestion makes not sense 500m3 is just enough for 20 Ogers T2... and we are back to Super Capitals being dominant on the field let your super carrier buddy unleash 20 Ogers against your max possible fited BS they will eat it like its nothing..

Making them pick between Fighters and Fighter Bombers is great. Either pick Fighters to use against bigger sub capital ships say large signature BS and structures or Fighter Bombers against Super Capitals and Capitals.


to think you have not trained smartbombs yet its a quick fix for them drones you think you have a issues with.
May i suggest you sit down and take a load off ,call someone you may need to interact with more then a computer from time to time.

limiting a drone bay always the ship to Survive a attack from a lone hic or dic it makes sense to give them something if you plan on taking so much away from them.
FHM
Doomheim
#2050 - 2011-10-14 18:22:19 UTC
Goose Sokarad wrote:
I dont consider the titan drawbacks that major is all im saying.Titans and supers will still be used as solo pwn mobiles but if easier to tackle is all good.


How exactly will they be used as a solo pwn mobile. Titan can no longer DD a subcapital to insta pop it, its guns wont 1 hit 1 kill a subcapital least hasnt happened to be always had a chance to warp off.

And super carriers will only be able to gank 1 BS and whit Fighters being nerfed as well that wont go as fast as it happens now.

These ships shouldn't do anything SOLO... and there for should not have any ability to defend them selves against subcapital ships.

Also to people that cry they will leave after this. Go ahead no one is stopping you. You represent 1% of EvE Online population i think that the 99% wont care if you stay or leave nor will CCP.

You knew what you were committing to when you trained for them and purchased them. And you knew that they are gonna get NERFED bad really bad to a point where they will finally serve their true role.
FHM
Doomheim
#2051 - 2011-10-14 18:22:26 UTC
Deleted - Double post - Bug
FHM
Doomheim
#2052 - 2011-10-14 18:27:38 UTC  |  Edited by: FHM
wanking monkey girl wrote:
FHM wrote:
wanking monkey girl wrote:
Goose Sokarad wrote:
Titans not moving for 30 seconds,no jumping or cloaking for 10 minutes isnt anything major for a titan pilot that jumps into a system and DD a lone carrier then warps around for a bit before jumps back out.This hasnt happen to me by the way i know someone that does it.

we all know someone that it happened too but the point being that titans have their set backs

to the idiot rambling about the suggestions i made carry on


You suggestion makes not sense 500m3 is just enough for 20 Ogers T2... and we are back to Super Capitals being dominant on the field let your super carrier buddy unleash 20 Ogers against your max possible fited BS they will eat it like its nothing..

Making them pick between Fighters and Fighter Bombers is great. Either pick Fighters to use against bigger sub capital ships say large signature BS and structures or Fighter Bombers against Super Capitals and Capitals.


to think you have not trained smartbombs yet its a quick fix for them drones you think you have a issues with.
May i suggest you sit down and take a load off ,call someone you may need to interact with more then a computer from time to time.

limiting a drone bay always the ship to Survive a attack from a lone hic or dic it makes sense to give them something if you plan on taking so much away from them.


You are so st00ping..you are not seeing the point.

These ships have their roles and they do no include being sub-capital ship killers. They rely of being defended by subcapitals AT ALL TIME. If you are caught by a Hictor it means you were trying to do stupid SOLO s h i t.. in a ship that is not meant for that so you deserve to DIE.

Super Capitals should have no defense against sub capital ships absolute no defense. Does not make sense. When they take all that away from them they will simply make them what they are meant to be.

A FLEET SUPPORT SHIP and ANTI CAPITAL SHIP and NOTHING MORE.


Also SMARTBOMBS are not the proper solution since these benemoths could easily repair their drones or just hold 1000s of them in corp hangar arrays when you kill the fielded ones they just move new ones in drone bay and launch them..
wanking monkey girl
Doomheim
#2053 - 2011-10-14 18:28:36 UTC
FHM wrote:
Goose Sokarad wrote:
I dont consider the titan drawbacks that major is all im saying.Titans and supers will still be used as solo pwn mobiles but if easier to tackle is all good.


How exactly will they be used as a solo pwn mobile. Titan can no longer DD a subcapital to insta pop it, its guns wont 1 hit 1 kill a subcapital least hasnt happened to be always had a chance to warp off.

And super carriers will only be able to gank 1 BS and whit Fighters being nerfed as well that wont go as fast as it happens now.

These ships shouldn't do anything SOLO... and there for should not have any ability to defend them selves against subcapital ships.

Also to people that cry they will leave after this. Go ahead no one is stopping you. You represent 1% of EvE Online population i think that the 99% wont care if you stay or leave nor will CCP.

You knew what you were committing to when you trained for them and purchased them. And you knew that they are gonna get NERFED bad really bad to a point where they will finally serve their true role.


chill

when you have time take a look at this guy he is a legend xMartok you know something nothing is going to change for him after this, but you have a point you need a support team in place for xMartok its a cyno in and a cyno out all caps need them.
FHM
Doomheim
#2054 - 2011-10-14 18:31:50 UTC
Also SMARTBOMBS are not the proper solution since these benemoths could easily repair their drones or just hold 1000s of them in corp hangar arrays when you kill the fielded ones they just move new ones in drone bay and launch them..
FHM
Doomheim
#2055 - 2011-10-14 18:35:25 UTC
wanking monkey girl wrote:
FHM wrote:
Goose Sokarad wrote:
I dont consider the titan drawbacks that major is all im saying.Titans and supers will still be used as solo pwn mobiles but if easier to tackle is all good.


How exactly will they be used as a solo pwn mobile. Titan can no longer DD a subcapital to insta pop it, its guns wont 1 hit 1 kill a subcapital least hasnt happened to be always had a chance to warp off.

And super carriers will only be able to gank 1 BS and whit Fighters being nerfed as well that wont go as fast as it happens now.

These ships shouldn't do anything SOLO... and there for should not have any ability to defend them selves against subcapital ships.

Also to people that cry they will leave after this. Go ahead no one is stopping you. You represent 1% of EvE Online population i think that the 99% wont care if you stay or leave nor will CCP.

You knew what you were committing to when you trained for them and purchased them. And you knew that they are gonna get NERFED bad really bad to a point where they will finally serve their true role.


chill

when you have time take a look at this guy he is a legend xMartok you know something nothing is going to change for him after this, but you have a point you need a support team in place for xMartok its a cyno in and a cyno out all caps need them.


He's not alone that does that, he can do that now just wait until nerfs come in when that ship wont be able to hit sub capitals. GL to him then.
Sol Oman
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2056 - 2011-10-14 18:36:33 UTC
Phunnestyle wrote:
zero2espect wrote:

It’s obvious to me that the number of players are dropping. the fury of recent blogs are designed to re-energise people into staying. Unfortunately, the changes that are listed as CCPs solutions are just ill thought through, knee jerk reactions by people so far removed from the playing of the game it makes me furious.

My preface is that the very people who have been paying subs for the last 5 years, the people who are growing tired of the game because it is broken, are being placed even more offside by these stupid changes. People who have invested millions of SP and billions of isk into capitals are being killed through stupid misconceptions about how they are used.

Another point is that there needs to be a mechanic separating 0.0 and low-sec. in 0.0 let the big boys duke it out for the billions of moon goo and the like – jump the titans, supers and dreads around all you want. Have different rules for them – they’re fighting for sov, let them bring out the bling – max bonuses. In low sec there needs to be protection for the 3643 (or whatever) corps of 50 people or less who want to pvp without the threat of their 5 baddons, 2 megas and scorp being dropped on by 15 SCs just because it’s fun on a Friday night. Limit the amount of ships that can jump through a cyno into low sec. Prevent fleets with more than 5 caps cynoing into a system. Implement a cyno cool-down onto fleets. Halve the bonuses due to security scanning protocols in low sec. Do something. You dont need to screw supers to fix the prob.

Supers. Where do I start. Forget your stupid idea with the drones. Listen, just give the super enough drone bay for 10 bombers and 5-10 fighters and halve the amount of drones able to be deployed at once. Balance this with an additional % of damage per level. Make the pilot choose between putting in bombers, fighters (cap vs bs shooting) and/or any mix of standard drones they wish – a super with 10 sentries/heavies/jamming drones isn’t going to win the next fight in delve but makes a difference to a guy bumped off a pos tackled by a hic and being bumped by 2 machs. Remove the bonuses that allow SC only fleets to remote rep each – force commanders to mix up fleets for reps. Change the ecm burst so that it uses stront so that there is a finite amount of bursting that can be accomplished. The EHP drop is there purely for SC haters – but again it’s stupid. If people are flying supercaps they’ve earned the right to have some ehp buffer. The logoffski rules provide a means that committed smaller fleets have a chance at a kill if they deserve it. I’d be happy to see that the hanger bay and corp hangers on supers be taken away so that they are pure combat ships and must rely on other jump capable ships for logistical support, amp up the fuel bay if you do this.

Titans. Remove the ability to bridge fleets or make it prohibitively expensive/limited – e.g. costs much much more or limits the number of ships similar to a wormhole (more smaller ships, few bigger ships). Fleet fight suppression is more based on the fear of massive-hostile-fleets bridging in rather than OMG 35 titans have jumped in. make the distinction between titan and super not guns but the DD and (rebalanced) jump portal. I can tell you for free that having an erebus gate camping in low sec instapowning anything with guns does not make for a fun eve (and unable to do anything because within range there are 12 supers waiting to jump in and take down anybody dumb enough to counter).

When will CCP learn that nothing good comes from BIG changes to anything. In a complex environment like EVE is, you can never understand what will happen when you make even little changes, and big changes are completely random in how they play out. Let’s be honest, CCPs record of deploying quality changes and balancing and game features is not stellar – this smells like more of the same. This whole situation came about because of a BIG change to motherships to become supers. This is like a roundabout now.

For the love of god, instead of making all these changes do 1 or 2 like I suggest, see what happens. if it’s not enough in a month do another one, then another one. Half of why we hate you CCP is that you hype up all these big changes and they never deliver what was promised. Promise less, do more small things and keep your current players happy. You may be trying to grow the game but at this rate you wont grow faster than people will leave if you keep doing crazy wholesale changes that effect people with BILLIONS invested into your universe.

I don’t have a super but I’m not on the bandwagon of NERF THE SUPERS! just because I don’t have one. I want to aspire to one day have one on this toon and the way things are going there is nothing beneficial in “wanting more” out of this game. I might as well stop producing items, buying plexes and adding value to the game and just fly ceptors and cruisers because at least when you **** them up I won’t be throwing billions down the toilet.


+1

read this, CCP!!
Jade Greenfire
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2057 - 2011-10-14 18:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Greenfire
The problem with Supers & Titans is they were introduced into the game without ever being properly balanced, and now that CCP is trying to do something, it will not please those that say the nerfs are too hard and it wont please those that say they have not gone far enough. Personally, I dont see how these changes are going to do anything, when it still means that due to the numbers of them now in the game, that neither Corps or Alliances, outside of the 2 major bloc's can stand against 100+ Supers or 50+ Titans. Escpecially when you consider that there is no changes to a titans ability to track sub caps with their guns, to use tracking computers or target painters.
I think that unless CCP addresses the following:
*Alliance Mechanics,
*Sov Mechanics
* Rolls back the disasterously badly thought out 0.0 anom nerf &
* Low Sec
within the the upcomming expansion, then its still a case of too lttle, too late. Yes its nice they will be bring out new Assault ships, but lets face it, that should have happened 2 years ago, rather than killing us with useless eye candy.
I get the clear impression again that CCP is not listening to the player base yet again & will implement changes that will do nothing to help stop the flat lining of EvE. In fact it may actual speed up its flat lining, given what new games are comming out & how little reason there is to get people back to EvE or for people to want to continue to play EvE.
wanking monkey girl
Doomheim
#2058 - 2011-10-14 18:39:17 UTC  |  Edited by: wanking monkey girl
thread is going off track just a bit. lets start it up with this suggestion


ships costing so much in both isk and skill time ccp think about rewarding the hard work of you loyal eve fans and addicts

How to fix a titan by making them remote links stop working on them.
getting impunity for ewar means it should not get any form of help from remote links like tracking and sebo.

nurf changes
hp hit great but not the hel
DD fine
agro timer great

sc
let them have 20 fighter bombers and 20 fighters and a small drone bay with about 500m3 this will cut
if you go ahead with the changes listed then turn them in to advanced carrier and let them dock at lest their going to be used and made after the nurf.

as many have pointed out with the agro timer you will see many more die in the weeks and month that follow..

but also fix the self destruct add so ships in combat can not selfdestruck.

on a side note super carriers in combat cannot refill on stranded drones lock the function with the agro timer.
solo super carrier moving about will be able to deafened itself for a limited amount of time

if the planed changes are introduced allow them to dock and turn the super carriers in to advanced carriers.
LET SUPER CARRIERS DOCK
FHM
Doomheim
#2059 - 2011-10-14 18:42:30 UTC
Sol Oman wrote:
Phunnestyle wrote:
zero2espect wrote:

It’s obvious to me that the number of players are dropping. the fury of recent blogs are designed to re-energise people into staying. Unfortunately, the changes that are listed as CCPs solutions are just ill thought through, knee jerk reactions by people so far removed from the playing of the game it makes me furious.

My preface is that the very people who have been paying subs for the last 5 years, the people who are growing tired of the game because it is broken, are being placed even more offside by these stupid changes. People who have invested millions of SP and billions of isk into capitals are being killed through stupid misconceptions about how they are used.

Another point is that there needs to be a mechanic separating 0.0 and low-sec. in 0.0 let the big boys duke it out for the billions of moon goo and the like – jump the titans, supers and dreads around all you want. Have different rules for them – they’re fighting for sov, let them bring out the bling – max bonuses. In low sec there needs to be protection for the 3643 (or whatever) corps of 50 people or less who want to pvp without the threat of their 5 baddons, 2 megas and scorp being dropped on by 15 SCs just because it’s fun on a Friday night. Limit the amount of ships that can jump through a cyno into low sec. Prevent fleets with more than 5 caps cynoing into a system. Implement a cyno cool-down onto fleets. Halve the bonuses due to security scanning protocols in low sec. Do something. You dont need to screw supers to fix the prob.

Supers. Where do I start. Forget your stupid idea with the drones. Listen, just give the super enough drone bay for 10 bombers and 5-10 fighters and halve the amount of drones able to be deployed at once. Balance this with an additional % of damage per level. Make the pilot choose between putting in bombers, fighters (cap vs bs shooting) and/or any mix of standard drones they wish – a super with 10 sentries/heavies/jamming drones isn’t going to win the next fight in delve but makes a difference to a guy bumped off a pos tackled by a hic and being bumped by 2 machs. Remove the bonuses that allow SC only fleets to remote rep each – force commanders to mix up fleets for reps. Change the ecm burst so that it uses stront so that there is a finite amount of bursting that can be accomplished. The EHP drop is there purely for SC haters – but again it’s stupid. If people are flying supercaps they’ve earned the right to have some ehp buffer. The logoffski rules provide a means that committed smaller fleets have a chance at a kill if they deserve it. I’d be happy to see that the hanger bay and corp hangers on supers be taken away so that they are pure combat ships and must rely on other jump capable ships for logistical support, amp up the fuel bay if you do this.

Titans. Remove the ability to bridge fleets or make it prohibitively expensive/limited – e.g. costs much much more or limits the number of ships similar to a wormhole (more smaller ships, few bigger ships). Fleet fight suppression is more based on the fear of massive-hostile-fleets bridging in rather than OMG 35 titans have jumped in. make the distinction between titan and super not guns but the DD and (rebalanced) jump portal. I can tell you for free that having an erebus gate camping in low sec instapowning anything with guns does not make for a fun eve (and unable to do anything because within range there are 12 supers waiting to jump in and take down anybody dumb enough to counter).

When will CCP learn that nothing good comes from BIG changes to anything. In a complex environment like EVE is, you can never understand what will happen when you make even little changes, and big changes are completely random in how they play out. Let’s be honest, CCPs record of deploying quality changes and balancing and game features is not stellar – this smells like more of the same. This whole situation came about because of a BIG change to motherships to become supers. This is like a roundabout now.

For the love of god, instead of making all these changes do 1 or 2 like I suggest, see what happens. if it’s not enough in a month do another one, then another one. Half of why we hate you CCP is that you hype up all these big changes and they never deliver what was promised. Promise less, do more small things and keep your current players happy. You may be trying to grow the game but at this rate you wont grow faster than people will leave if you keep doing crazy wholesale changes that effect people with BILLIONS invested into your universe.

I don’t have a super but I’m not on the bandwagon of NERF THE SUPERS! just because I don’t have one. I want to aspire to one day have one on this toon and the way things are going there is nothing beneficial in “wanting more” out of this game. I might as well stop producing items, buying plexes and adding value to the game and just fly ceptors and cruisers because at least when you **** them up I won’t be throwing billions down the toilet.


+1

read this, CCP!!


Everything you proposed solves nothing.. They are useless changes that would make no difference at all. Only solution is to make SUPER CAPITALS useless against SUB CAPITALS..
FHM
Doomheim
#2060 - 2011-10-14 18:44:38 UTC  |  Edited by: FHM
wanking monkey girl wrote:
thread is going off track just a bit. lets start it up with this suggestion


ships costing so much in both isk and skill time ccp think about rewarding the hard work of you loyal eve fans and addicts

How to fix a titan by making them remote links stop working on them.
getting impunity for ewar means it should not get any form of help from remote links like tracking and sebo.

nurf changes
hp hit great but not the hel
DD fine
agro timer great

sc
let them have 20 fighter bombers and 20 fighters and a small drone bay with about 500m3 this will cut
if you go ahead with the changes listed then turn them in to advanced carrier and let them dock at lest their going to be used and made after the nurf.

as many have pointed out with the agro timer you will see many more die in the weeks and month that follow..

but also fix the self destruct add so ships in combat can not selfdestruck.

on a side note super carriers in combat cannot refill on stranded drones lock the function with the agro timer.
solo super carrier moving about will be able to deafened itself for a limited amount of time

if the planed changes are introduced allow them to dock and turn the super carriers in to advanced carriers.
LET SUPER CARRIERS DOCK


Again s00pid argument. Also letting them dock makes no sense.