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NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

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Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#441 - 2012-09-03 00:19:46 UTC
Why do people think High sec is a demographic.

Where a person lives in EVE matters little. What matters is what they care about.



I live in high sec space at this time. However, I don't care about missions, mining, incursions, trading, wars, industry.
I care about being able to sit at stations and watch people blow each other up. I enjoy doing that for hours (on the other hand, I don't enjoy the lack of pew pew ever since dec evasions were deemed not an exploit, hasn't been the same).
Would I be represented by what is usually meant by a HS rep? No.

When you all talk about representation, you should not be talking about location. Location means jack.
Its what you do that needs representation, not where you chose to be.



Sorry all, had to get that off my chest.
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#442 - 2012-09-03 00:20:08 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
betoli wrote:
Nexus Day wrote:
The community is represented by those whom represent themselves as part of the community.

In other words, if you don't speak up you usually don't get a vote.


Training GobShite and Arrogance to level 5 as we speak. Shocked


What's arrogant about what he said?
He's right...


Absolutely nothing.... I was tacitly agreeing with him.
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#443 - 2012-09-03 00:22:35 UTC
I just finished listening to the last CSM town hall meeting and I found it kind of disheartening that they spoke about the new player experience and other issues that affect players at my skill level for perhaps a total of 10 minutes tops, and when they did talk about it I felt like they were rushing through it so they could get back to what THEY were interested in, which not surprisingly was.... nullsec and how to get people into lowsec. After listening I believe now more than ever that there should be SOMEONE on the CSM who's sole duty is to represent the concerns and issues faced by people at lower skill levels, despite this actually being addressed by the CSM during the recording and the concensus being that it wasn't an issue.
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#444 - 2012-09-03 00:24:08 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Why do people think High sec is a demographic.

Where a person lives in EVE matters little. What matters is what they care about.



When you all talk about representation, you should not be talking about location. Location means jack.
Its what you do that needs representation, not where you chose to be.
.


Its a fair point. Though as different locations have different in-game rules, location has a bearing on what you do - conflict is different in 0.0 to 1.0.... fact. Thats why I put both locations *and* professions in my list earlier.

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#445 - 2012-09-03 00:30:33 UTC
betoli wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Why do people think High sec is a demographic.

Where a person lives in EVE matters little. What matters is what they care about.



When you all talk about representation, you should not be talking about location. Location means jack.
Its what you do that needs representation, not where you chose to be.
.


Its a fair point. Though as different locations have different in-game rules, location has a bearing on what you do - conflict is different in 0.0 to 1.0.... fact. Thats why I put both locations *and* professions in my list earlier.


Might have missed that list, looking back.

And thats fine, merging the two. Covers all the bases.

It just irked me that for so long people talk about HS, LS, and NS reps, whereas they should be talking about reps for different activities.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#446 - 2012-09-03 00:38:22 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Why do people think High sec is a demographic.

Where a person lives in EVE matters little. What matters is what they care about.



I live in high sec space at this time. However, I don't care about missions, mining, incursions, trading, wars, industry.
I care about being able to sit at stations and watch people blow each other up. I enjoy doing that for hours (on the other hand, I don't enjoy the lack of pew pew ever since dec evasions were deemed not an exploit, hasn't been the same).
Would I be represented by what is usually meant by a HS rep? No.

When you all talk about representation, you should not be talking about location. Location means jack.
Its what you do that needs representation, not where you chose to be.



Sorry all, had to get that off my chest.

it's funny that the highseccers accuse nullsec players of spreading an "us vs. them" mentality, when it's really them who espouse it so much.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#447 - 2012-09-03 00:46:42 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:

it's still only been four years...



My bad.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#448 - 2012-09-03 01:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Abel Merkabah
Corina Jarr wrote:
betoli wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Why do people think High sec is a demographic.

Where a person lives in EVE matters little. What matters is what they care about.



When you all talk about representation, you should not be talking about location. Location means jack.
Its what you do that needs representation, not where you chose to be.
.


Its a fair point. Though as different locations have different in-game rules, location has a bearing on what you do - conflict is different in 0.0 to 1.0.... fact. Thats why I put both locations *and* professions in my list earlier.


Might have missed that list, looking back.

And thats fine, merging the two. Covers all the bases.

It just irked me that for so long people talk about HS, LS, and NS reps, whereas they should be talking about reps for different activities.


I also think when people say Highsec player, nullsec player or lowsec god; they are referring to the mentality of the player, not their physical location in game (can it be physical in a virtual world?). You can take a "highsec player" and plop them in the middle of lowsec and they will still behave like a "highsec player"...same with a nullsec/lowsec player; there are unique play styles and mentalities to each area, and players that prefer one over the other are part of their respective group no matter where their home station is.

Edit: Reps for different activities would be closer to this; didn't notice that part of the post...sorry.

Edit x2: And no one has answered yet when CSM voting actually takes place... Straight

James315 for CSM 8!
Mal Ishos
Steecey's Industries
#449 - 2012-09-03 01:30:24 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
From what I've read EVE UNI isn't a carebear organization its more of a trainning ground/pet for NULL alliancess recruiting.
They seem to bemore of anorganization for pushing peeps into NULL . They have footholds in every sec space except in WH's don't they ?


It's most definitely a carebear organization. Miniscule tax rate, very little PVP and almost all of their assets and members exist solely in high sec space.

Their CEO even ran specifically on the "Highsec Carebear" ticket.

Just wondering what happened to him.

You hear all kinds of chatter from and about various other CSM members, but I can't remember anything the EVE UNI CEO has said or contributed since being elected.
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#450 - 2012-09-03 03:40:12 UTC
lol people say they will do a lot and not happen lol.

so i decided i may as well run for this specialy if my rl situation hasnt changed if the hi sec dwealing public wants this then look out for me you never know an angry scotsman telling the nullies to shutup and listen on occasion may fix a few things.
ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#451 - 2012-09-03 04:50:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ugh zug
with any representation system comes the inherent risk of your elected to turn around and do what they want not what their voters want, and regardless of where they came from they can always be turned into someones pet, everyone has a price.

high sec CAN have representation, is just that we don't want it enough, reason why nullsec members get elected is because they have an alliance behind them 9/10 or scam votes from people by misrepresentation and misinformation....

here's how to have high sec representation,

Step one create a high sec party.
Step two advertise for membership.
Step three poll members for what high sec needs.
Step four educate members on CSM elections.
Step five hold party elections.
Step six have members vote for party sanctioned member(s) in CSM election.
Step seven pray your elected candidate is not swayed by isk bids from null entities.

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co.
#452 - 2012-09-03 05:18:49 UTC
Jaques Cousteau Gemulus wrote:
Anslo wrote:
I do agree with his signature though...

EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about...



Cant argue with that.....


Actually you can... argue with your vote next time. All that those percentages show is that organization wins over chaos.

IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES:  " I drank WHAT?!"
Orzo Torasson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#453 - 2012-09-03 07:04:53 UTC
Platforms that nullsec CSM candidates run on:

-Tech rebalance
-Supercapital Rebalancing
-Fix Player Owned Stations


Platforms that highsec CSM candidates run on

-How can we make miners invincible?
-No, like, even more invincible
-More clothes in the NEX store
-How can we make boobs bigger in the character creator?


I don't know about you guys, but I am very happy we're in charge.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#454 - 2012-09-03 07:10:20 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Orzo Torasson wrote:
Platforms that nullsec CSM candidates run on:

BLAH BLAH BLAH...

Platforms that highsec CSM candidates run on

-How can we make boobs bigger in the character creator?


I don't know about you guys, but I am very happy we're in charge.



nOT ME I say bring in bigger NULL SEC BOOBs like yourself so we in HI can laugh more and refuse to let NULL become my beneveloent tyrant!
VOTE NULL'S BIGGER BUMS OUT WE NEED MORE HI SEC BOOBSBlink I perfer Eve more TOP heavy then bottom hheavy
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Frying Doom
#455 - 2012-09-03 08:34:14 UTC
betoli wrote:
So perhaps there are better questions to ask.

If the players (lets assume) are educated as much as possible.... but the player base is still not represented properly.

  • Should we have a CSM at all, if it presents a biased and unrepresentative view?

  • Is the CSM actually less effective because CCP know that its unrepresentative of the people who actually pay their bills?

  • If the CSM know that they badly represent HS, newer players etc - as they must as they can see the stats - why do they not appoint representatives of those communities? Such an appointee would obviously not be on the CSM itself, but would be a visible go-to person for people of that demographic. Surely this would be better than pretending to know and care about aspects of the game that they don't participate in.

  • As others have raised the 'election model', perhaps people should stand for posts rather than to be a part of the hegemony? Should we have a indy rep, a pvp rep, a HS rep, a LS rep, etc? Players can then see how well CSM members represent the cause they are supposed to, as well as see whether candidates are likely to represent that cause (Vote James315 for mining minister!!!!).


    • The CSM does appoint people to cover the various subjects, but appointing someone who does not do a specific thing in the game means that even though they know the mechanics of that part of the game they will not have the passion for it as Hans Jagerblitzen has shown over the last 18 months or more with his love of Faction Warfare.

    Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
    Frying Doom
    #456 - 2012-09-03 08:37:25 UTC
    Tippia wrote:
    Frying Doom wrote:
    How can it possibly be representative of the players when so many of the players are not represented
    Because location is not representation. Issues being brought to CCP's attention is representation. Are any issues left by the wayside?

    This has nothing to do with location as how can we know what a particular person wants or does not want if they do not speak up either on these forums or via voting. As to have any issues been left by the wayside again you or I have no clue we are not these people, so we have no idea their wants or gripes.

    Tippia wrote:
    Quote:
    The players need further education
    Unlikely given the massive response rate the election have already.

    Very likely given what I experienced in the last CSM election and the posts that have appeared on these forums.

    Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
    Frying Doom
    #457 - 2012-09-03 08:40:02 UTC
    Lord Zim wrote:
    Frying Doom wrote:
    You sound like a school teacher, we tried to educate them, but it didn't work so we gave up.

    CCP are covering literally all angles they can of making sure people know what the **** the CSM is, and why it should be in their interest to vote. I've seen absolutely no suggestion from you which would have any effect whatsoever over and beyond what CCP are already doing.

    Frying Doom wrote:
    As I have said over and over, trying to educate the masses does no harm to anyone but small interest groups.

    Yes, you keep saying "educate the masses", and we keep telling you that CCP have done virtually everything they can do, short of getting someone to punch them in the face repeatedly until they say "I understand what the CSM is".

    And there's something to be said for realizing when you're beating your head against an impenetrable wall of willful ignorance. You're advocating getting a headache.

    I agree they have done a lot of it and it needs to be done again this year and every year as there are always new players and CCP and the CSM should always be looking to involve more people into the CSM elections every year.

    Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
    Frying Doom
    #458 - 2012-09-03 08:40:55 UTC
    Lord Zim wrote:
    Why do you assume the CSM has a "biased view"?

    I personally do not but they can not have anything more than a minority view while only the minority is involved.

    Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
    Frying Doom
    #459 - 2012-09-03 08:46:05 UTC
    betoli wrote:


    Stop meta-debating. If you have no opinion STFU. I only asked questions, I did not make any assumptions or claims as to whether answering yes to any of them would help. I don't know whether its your intention or not, but your manner on these boards appears to suggest you want to stifle discussion, not participate in it or add meaningful contribution.

    One can not stop nor should they try for Lord Zim to express his views, he is an active member of one of the minorities involved with the CSM and like all minorities when their power is threatened they will accuse those that are trying to minimalize them of not caring, that they are racist, sexist etc just to hold on to that power.

    I must congratulate Lord Zim for not having stooped to these levels as he is sticking to the "they are educated track", I may not agree with his view but it is better than the actions of a lot of the minorities who have sunk so low in their thirst for power.

    That and this is a game, so there are not millions of dollars riding on this.

    Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
    Tippia
    Sunshine and Lollipops
    #460 - 2012-09-03 08:51:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
    Frying Doom wrote:
    This has nothing to do with location as how can we know what a particular person wants or does not want if they do not speak up either on these forums or via voting.
    …and again, the funny thing is that far more people are speaking up around here than pretty much anywhere else in the world of games. The general rule of thumb is that ~10% occasionally visit a forum for a game (not necessarily the official one and not necessarily to post) and that ~1% of the players are active on the official forums. 16.6% is a huge turnout and it means that those who have an interest in being heard are being heard — the representation is there already.

    Oh, and location most certainly has something to do with it since this supposed (but not actual) lack of representation is always painted in the light of “null is represented; highsec is not”… you know, the topic of the thread?

    Quote:
    Very likely given what I experienced in the last CSM election and the posts that have appeared on these forums.
    You mean the ones that indicate that people aren't interested in knowing more, because if they were, they would know?

    Quote:
    I personally do not but they can not have anything more than a minority view while only the minority is involved.
    Statistics don't agree with you.

    Quote:
    I agree they have done a lot of it and it needs to be done again this year and every year as there are always new players and CCP and the CSM should always be looking to involve more people into the CSM elections every year.
    You mean, exactly what they've been doing it since day 1?