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NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

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Frying Doom
#361 - 2012-09-02 11:55:11 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
There is no proof
Yes there is. They have logged in. If they have, they have unavoidably been informed on numerous occasions.

No they have been informed over a 2 week period earlier this year that voting for a CSM that has something to do with incursions or maybe a player corp occurred, that's about it.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#362 - 2012-09-02 11:56:21 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Tippia wrote:
If you feel it's a problem, then go on a campaign spree and educate them and see if that helps

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO

Smile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2012-09-02 11:56:27 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
There is no proof that they have been informed or that they have chosen not to vote

Except they're informed every time they check a myriad of forums, every time they log in, and every time they read a ton of various gaming sites. They have to literally work at not being informed.

Frying Doom wrote:
As I have said before with only 1/3 of 1% needed to win a seat more needs to be done to educate the voters as to the role and importance of the CSM.

They are already as educated as they want to be.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#364 - 2012-09-02 12:00:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Frying Doom wrote:
No
Prove it. How can they not be informed in spite of the multi-prong media blitz?

And no, choosing not to bother to read up is not to be uninformed — it's choosing not to care and not to be represented. They have been informed, and the result is an abstain vote in absentia. They get exactly the representation they wish for.

If they log in during voting month, they have been informed. If they choose not to vote, then that's their choice. There's really no two ways about it.
Frying Doom
#365 - 2012-09-02 12:07:14 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
There is no proof that they have been informed or that they have chosen not to vote

Except they're informed every time they check a myriad of forums, every time they log in, and every time they read a ton of various gaming sites. They have to literally work at not being informed.

Yes they are inundated with stuff with the new launcher but people probably pay as much attention to that as the blizzard or sims 3 launcher...bugger all.
As to the rest maybe they don't read those sites or maybe the reporting is so god damn awful you don't want to read it.

Either way around the only way to know if they are educated is to educate them.

Frying Doom wrote:
As I have said before with only 1/3 of 1% needed to win a seat more needs to be done to educate the voters as to the role and importance of the CSM.

They are already as educated as they want to be.[/quote]
Apparently not or more than 16.63% would actually be voting if they knew what the CSM was for.

I think the figures speak for them selves. You cannot claim they are educated with such a poor turn out. Its not like it is a local government election this is importantLol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#366 - 2012-09-02 12:09:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes they are inundated with stuff with the new launcher but people probably pay as much attention to that as the blizzard or sims 3 launcher...bugger all.
…and if that's their choice, then guess what: they've chosen not to vote. It's that simple.

Quote:
I think the figures speak for them selves.
Yes. Most people don't care enough to vote. Oh, and you'll notice that CSM7 have a larger turnout than some of the U.S. primaries, so yes, people care more about this than real politics.
Frying Doom
#367 - 2012-09-02 12:12:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
No
Prove it. How can they not be informed in spite of the multi-prong media blitz?

And no, choosing not to bother to read up is not to be uninformed — it's choosing not to care and not to be represented. They have been informed, and the result is an abstain vote in absentia. They get exactly the representation they wish for.

If they log in during voting month, they have been informed. If they choose not to vote, then that's their choice. There's really no two ways about it.

The media blitz as you call it was a couple of banners and a little sign. Oh and the banners were once off by memory.

One talked about voting for getting rid of incursions or some rubbish and the other was to vote for the council of stellar management, what ever that might be, considering it gave no indication of it function.

As I have said making sure they are educated hurts no one but small interest groups, while educating them leads to a more representative CSM.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#368 - 2012-09-02 12:14:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes they are inundated with stuff with the new launcher but people probably pay as much attention to that as the blizzard or sims 3 launcher...bugger all.
…and if that's their choice, then guess what: they've chosen not to vote. It's that simple.

Quote:
I think the figures speak for them selves.
Yes. Most people don't care enough to vote. Oh, and you'll notice that CSM7 have a larger turnout than some of the U.S. primaries, so yes, people care more about this than real politics.

I have no real idea about US politics other than there is an elephant involvedLol

I know some things but not enough to talk about your election or primaries.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2012-09-02 12:19:22 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
As I have said making sure they are educated hurts no one but small interest groups, while educating them leads to a more representative CSM.

They are as educated as they care to be. Expending more time and energy to try to educate them further will yield absolutely nothing.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#370 - 2012-09-02 12:22:11 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
As I have said making sure they are educated hurts no one but small interest groups, while educating them leads to a more representative CSM.

They are as educated as they care to be. Expending more time and energy to try to educate them further will yield absolutely nothing.

Actually in last years elections, I had quite a few people ask me what the CSM was or they told me it was a Null sec thing.

So no there are those who are not educated and the education of the 80% will at least yield a guarantee that they have been educated.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#371 - 2012-09-02 12:24:35 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
The media blitz as you call it was a couple of banners and a little sign.
…that got repeated on numerous occasions, on top of local lighting up with it, on top of every eve-related media outlet talking about it. If you actually have any interest in EVE whatsoever, you hear about it. Again, they have been informed; they just don't care, much like with real-life elections. Frankly, the turn-out is surprisingly big as it is — conventional wisdom puts player engagement of this kind at somewhere in the region of 5–10%.

Quote:
As I have said making sure they are educated hurts no one but small interest groups, while educating them leads to a more representative CSM.
You cannot force people to “educate” themselves about something they do not care about, and you have yet to show that the representation is problematic, either in the issues being brought up or in that it doesn't represent the population.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#372 - 2012-09-02 12:32:01 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Actually in last years elections, I had quite a few people ask me what the CSM was

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=eve+online+CSM

Frying Doom wrote:
or they told me it was a Null sec thing.

Ah, yes, the people who will just claim you're a nullsec alt if you try to tell them it isn't. Again, willful ignorance.

Frying Doom wrote:
So no there are those who are not educated and the education of the 80% will at least yield a guarantee that they have been educated.

They have been educated right now.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#373 - 2012-09-02 12:33:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Quote:
As I have said making sure they are educated hurts no one but small interest groups, while educating them leads to a more representative CSM.
You cannot force people to “educate” themselves about something they do not care about, and you have yet to show that the representation is problematic, either in the issues being brought up or in that it doesn't represent the population.

No but you can force them to actively abstain. Like I have said if you give them a nice blurb with a note on the bottom

*Note: CSM Candidates are permitted to scam you out of your vote, if a player is offering you a plex or isk for your vote chances are you are being scammed.

Something like that.

Then that way they have actively chosen not to vote rather than passively.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#374 - 2012-09-02 12:35:51 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
No but you can force them to actively abstain.
Annoying people only ever leads to more of them skipping it, so that won't do the numbers much good…

…and it doesn't address the supposed issue of representation in the slightest.
Frying Doom
#375 - 2012-09-02 12:38:07 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Actually in last years elections, I had quite a few people ask me what the CSM was

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=eve+online+CSM
That was nice maybe you can do something like that up for the peasants.

Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
or they told me it was a Null sec thing.

Ah, yes, the people who will just claim you're a nullsec alt if you try to tell them it isn't. Again, willful ignorance.

Again attempt to educate, failing that call them peasants and ignore them. But always educate the first.

Lord Zim wrote:

They have been educated right now.

They might have been educated there is currently no guarantee of that. So we educate them all.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#376 - 2012-09-02 12:38:50 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
No but you can force them to actively abstain.

Which means you'll have to spend coder time making the mechanic, you'll annoy people more, and end up with exactly the same result, because the people who didn't vote, didn't care.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#377 - 2012-09-02 12:40:14 UTC
…and regardless, the fundamental question remains: what's the problem with the current representation?
Frying Doom
#378 - 2012-09-02 12:40:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
No but you can force them to actively abstain.
Annoying people only ever leads to more of them skipping it, so that won't do the numbers much good…

…and it doesn't address the supposed issue of representation in the slightest.

It increases their education as to the role of the CSM if they choose not to read it there is nothing that can be done for them and may BoB have mercy on their souls.

As to Annoying them it would be about 1 minute in a year so not a huge loss of time. Actually i cannot think of anything that only costs me 1 minute in a year.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#379 - 2012-09-02 12:40:52 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
That was nice maybe you can do something like that up for the peasants.

It's already there, there's nothing to be done.

Frying Doom wrote:
Again attempt to educate, failing that call them peasants and ignore them. But always educate the first.

They have been.

Frying Doom wrote:
They might have been educated there is currently no guarantee of that. So we educate them all.

They have been.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#380 - 2012-09-02 12:42:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…and regardless, the fundamental question remains: what's the problem with the current representation?

It is not representative, it cannot be given such a small percentage of voters and when a 3% block is considered the largest power block or that you only need 1/3 of 1% of the populous to get someone on the CSM.

That really does not sound representative to me.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!