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NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

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Frying Doom
#341 - 2012-09-02 11:06:07 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
How many alts you have and where they are has nothing to do with that statistic

that statistic has nothing to do with how people vote

But it does have something to do with the question "What is a Representative CSM?"

a representative csm represents the people who voted for it

as you have no idea what players where voted for who (because you have no data) let me help

all my characters were in highsec at the time and I didn't vote for a person 'from' highsec

yeah that's only one person - me

but it's the best indication of who voted for who from where you have so far

so by the data you have (now) the csm is perfectly representative of highsec dwellers

deal with it

I think you need to hide your Corp tag. People might start thinking you represent RvB

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#342 - 2012-09-02 11:11:48 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
No a representative CSM, should be a CSM decided by the majority of the players

And amazingly, it is.

18% is not a Majority.

And the remaining population have been informed of the CSM's existence, and have chosen to not give a vote.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#343 - 2012-09-02 11:13:02 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

I think you need to hide your Corp tag. People might start thinking you represent RvB

as the most senior member of rvb active in this thread I hereby give myself permission to make a swoosh sound

swooosh
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#344 - 2012-09-02 11:14:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:

Be that as it may, a perspective and voice of a high sec player isn't and shouldn't be discounted.


So they should vote then.






The problem is the large corp/alliances vote for their own interests and the majority of high-sec (NPC corps) don't really have anyone to vote for as they don't even know the candidates.


Just do away with the CSM, they don't represent the community anyway, mainly their own interests.
Frying Doom
#345 - 2012-09-02 11:29:24 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
No a representative CSM, should be a CSM decided by the majority of the players

And amazingly, it is.

18% is not a Majority.

And the remaining population have been informed of the CSM's existence, and have chosen to not give a vote.

Once again have they? They where told voting was open on a thing called the Council for Stellar Management but not what it is or what it does.

The only people who would be against educating the masses are those who would be better served if they remained non-voting peasants.

After all does it not serve us all as a population better to have a council that represents all of EvE, to make a better game for all of us to play in. Also if you predictions on the number of Null alts is correct you might actually get a huge chunk of the populous on your side to fix that smelly pit called Null.Smile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#346 - 2012-09-02 11:30:16 UTC
Sabrina Solette wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:

Be that as it may, a perspective and voice of a high sec player isn't and shouldn't be discounted.


So they should vote then.






The problem is the large corp/alliances vote for their own interests and the majority of high-sec (NPC corps) don't really have anyone to vote for as they don't even know the candidates.


Just do away with the CSM, they don't represent the community anyway, mainly their own interests.

Candidates are always welcomeSmile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#347 - 2012-09-02 11:39:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
Lord Zim wrote:

I'd postulate that we do have a clear statistic on "how many fools play eve": the exact number of people who didn't vote.


Not voting is also a form of expression. If you are in the minority, it doesn't matter who your representative is. In democracy only the majoritys opinion matters. Might as well not bother.

I dont believe CSM has much influence even in the best of cases though.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#348 - 2012-09-02 11:39:27 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Sabrina Solette wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:

Be that as it may, a perspective and voice of a high sec player isn't and shouldn't be discounted.


So they should vote then.






The problem is the large corp/alliances vote for their own interests and the majority of high-sec (NPC corps) don't really have anyone to vote for as they don't even know the candidates.


Just do away with the CSM, they don't represent the community anyway, mainly their own interests.

Candidates are always welcomeSmile



And who is going to vote for someone in an NPC corp when hardly anyone if anyone even knows that person/candidate?

The large alliances get representation because they have the numbers and have a vested interest in getting someone on the CSM so as to look out for their own corp/alliances interests. The fact is the majority of EVE players are not represented they have to rely on luck that the interests of the large corp/alliance candidates just happen to have the same view as them.

Which is why a lot don't even bother to vote because the whole voting system is a waste of time for the majority of players.


Just get rid of the CSMs!
Frying Doom
#349 - 2012-09-02 11:41:18 UTC
Sabrina Solette wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Sabrina Solette wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:

Be that as it may, a perspective and voice of a high sec player isn't and shouldn't be discounted.


So they should vote then.






The problem is the large corp/alliances vote for their own interests and the majority of high-sec (NPC corps) don't really have anyone to vote for as they don't even know the candidates.


Just do away with the CSM, they don't represent the community anyway, mainly their own interests.

Candidates are always welcomeSmile



And who is going to vote for someone in an NPC corp when hardly anyone if anyone even knows that person/candidate?

The large alliances get representation because they have the numbers and have a vested interest in getting someone on the CSM so as to look out for their own corp/alliances interests. The fact is the majority of EVE players are not represented they have to rely on luck that the interests of the large corp/alliance candidates just happen to have the same view as them.

Which is why a lot don't even bother to vote because the whole voting system is a waste of time for the majority of players.


Just get rid of the CSMs!


Anyone who made enough noise, provided that the voting rules do not change to something sane can get into the CSM, look at Darius III, if he made it into the CSM anyone can.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#350 - 2012-09-02 11:41:55 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Once again have they? They where told voting was open on a thing called the Council for Stellar Management but not what it is or what it does.

Yes, it's such a chore to go into evelopedia and type in either "CSM" or "Council of Stellar Management" and get one of these two links:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CSM
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Council_of_Stellar_Management

If people can't be arsed to do even this (and also manage to ignore literally every CSM-related thread both during election time, and all whine-threads outside of election time), then I'm going to just go to the point of calling them completely irrelevant, and to tell them to go **** themselves and vote next time.

Frying Doom wrote:
After all does it not serve us all as a population better to have a council that represents all of EvE, to make a better game for all of us to play in.

Last I checked, we did.

Frying Doom wrote:
Also if you predictions on the number of Null alts is correct you might actually get a huge chunk of the populous on your side to fix that smelly pit called Null.Smile

Last I checked, we did.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#351 - 2012-09-02 11:44:49 UTC
Nyla Skin wrote:
Not voting is also a form of expression.

That was the point. The thing about "not voting" when it comes to such things as the CSM, what you're really saying is "I don't give a **** about what changes come, do whatever you feel like".

Nyla Skin wrote:
If you are in the minority, it doesn't matter who your representative is. In democracy only the majoritys opinion matters. Might as well not bother.

Except in this case, "the minority" is what gets to affect things, because the majority doesn't give a ****.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#352 - 2012-09-02 11:46:25 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Anyone who made enough noise, provided that the voting rules do not change to something sane can get into the CSM, look at Darius III, if he made it into the CSM anyone can.




Voting for people that have no clue just because you can, or voting just because they're wearing a Quafe 'T' shirt. How would that help exactly?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#353 - 2012-09-02 11:47:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
And the remaining population have been informed of the CSM's existence, and have chosen to not give a vote.
Once again have they?
Yes. They would have had to go out of their way to avoid knowing what is going on, and that is their choice.

If you feel it's a problem, then go on a campaign spree and educate them and see if that helps — forcing people to “be interested” will only make them less interested… and annoyed. They have chosen already, and you're just not happy with the choice they've made.

…and again, what's the actual problem here? What's missing from the agenda? What would be the message to CCP if a “highsec rep” got on the council? Easier suicide ganks? Fewer industry slots? Gate taxes? There seems to be this very poorly founded assumption that all of highsec wants the same things…
Frying Doom
#354 - 2012-09-02 11:48:11 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

Yes, it's such a chore to go into evelopedia and type in either "CSM" or "Council of Stellar Management" and get one of these two links:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CSM
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Council_of_Stellar_Management

If people can't be arsed to do even this (and also manage to ignore literally every CSM-related thread both during election time, and all whine-threads outside of election time), then I'm going to just go to the point of calling them completely irrelevant, and to tell them to go **** themselves and vote next time.

Have you red that out dated crap. But anyway people may not be aware the CSM is relevant to them as I said they may believe that was an add for voting about someone corporation or they may just think the CSM is controlled by Null sec blocks looking out for them selves, either way educating them will do little harm and alot of good.

Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
After all does it not serve us all as a population better to have a council that represents all of EvE, to make a better game for all of us to play in.

Last I checked, we did.

We have no idea with only a minority voting, we don't know what a representative council is.

Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Also if you predictions on the number of Null alts is correct you might actually get a huge chunk of the populous on your side to fix that smelly pit called Null.Smile

Last I checked, we did.


Not really as it stands any fixes done to Null sec that do not benifit Hi-sec would be classed as a waste of developers time given what needs fixing. But if you had a majority of the populous, not the majority of a minority you might find it easier to get fixed.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#355 - 2012-09-02 11:50:30 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
But anyway people may not be aware the CSM is relevant to them as I said they may believe that was an add for voting about someone corporation or they may just think the CSM is controlled by Null sec blocks looking out for them selves, either way educating them will do little harm and alot of good.

In which case they're willfully ignorant and can go **** themselves.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#356 - 2012-09-02 11:51:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
And the remaining population have been informed of the CSM's existence, and have chosen to not give a vote.
Once again have they?
Yes. They would have had to go out of their way to avoid knowing what is going on, and that is their choice.

If you feel it's a problem, then go on a campaign spree and educate them and see if that helps — forcing people to “be interested” will only make them less interested… and annoyed. They have chosen already, and you're just not happy with the choice they've made.

There is no proof that they have been informed or that they have chosen not to vote, only that they havent voted and if you just played the game even with those couple of messages ealier this year you might have missed them or considered they were not relevant to you.

As I have said before with only 1/3 of 1% needed to win a seat more needs to be done to educate the voters as to the role and importance of the CSM.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#357 - 2012-09-02 11:52:22 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
But anyway people may not be aware the CSM is relevant to them as I said they may believe that was an add for voting about someone corporation or they may just think the CSM is controlled by Null sec blocks looking out for them selves, either way educating them will do little harm and alot of good.

In which case they're willfully ignorant and can go **** themselves.

At which point we end up with a minority player representative council and CCP really has no need to listen to that.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#358 - 2012-09-02 11:53:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Frying Doom wrote:
There is no proof
Yes there is. They have logged in. If they have, they have unavoidably been informed on numerous occasions.

In fact, I'd so so far as to bounce that one back at you: can you prove that, in spite of the blitz of CSM info that comes out from CCP and other players around voting time, people still manage to remain uninformed? If so, how do they manage that?
Frying Doom
#359 - 2012-09-02 11:53:57 UTC
Sabrina Solette wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Anyone who made enough noise, provided that the voting rules do not change to something sane can get into the CSM, look at Darius III, if he made it into the CSM anyone can.




Voting for people that have no clue just because you can, or voting just because they're wearing a Quafe 'T' shirt. How would that help exactly?

Voting, being part of YOUR player representative council would help. Deciding who speaks for you to CCP.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#360 - 2012-09-02 11:54:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
If you feel it's a problem, then go on a campaign spree and educate them and see if that helps

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO