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NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

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Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#241 - 2012-09-02 05:03:21 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
The only people who do not know what it is or what function it performs in the player community are those who, by choice, segregate and isolate themselves from that community. As such they automatically lose the right to take part in even the most basic decisions regarding the future of the game they play.

No, they always support the claim of whoever is posting at the time.

ie: They want more nerfs to ganking, I guess?



What? I'm not sure you read what I wrote.

Or were you being funny? Please clarify in case I need to clarify my statement for you.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#242 - 2012-09-02 05:19:39 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
The only people who do not know what it is or what function it performs in the player community are those who, by choice, segregate and isolate themselves from that community. As such they automatically lose the right to take part in even the most basic decisions regarding the future of the game they play.

No, they always support the claim of whoever is posting at the time.

ie: They want more nerfs to ganking, I guess?

What? I'm not sure you read what I wrote.

Or were you being funny? Please clarify in case I need to clarify my statement for you.

Nah, I'm poking fun at the many posts where they make unsubstantiated claims that all the highsec people agree with them.

Hope that isn't a habit of anyone here...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#243 - 2012-09-02 06:24:35 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Given that the majority of this game do not use the forums, let alone all the sites the CSM is mentioned on their ability to perceive the existence of the CSM is only in-game.


Thank you for proving my point for me. That is a choice. One people make consciously.

Frying Doom wrote:

On this I completely disagree, from your argument I could use the case that you don't seem to have posted in the Test Server Feedback threads and so you should there for not be eligible to vote. You seem to have segregated your self from part of the EvE community by not posting there, why should you be allowed to vote if others who don't read things external to the game should not be educated?


Because the Test Server is NOT an integral part of the game. It is NOT what our subscription fee covers. It may also be worth you noting that the CSM is involved much further up the chain than just waiting for new content/changes to hit the test server. They are now trialling CSM involvement in the ideas stage. I should also point out that my lack of posting in any particular section of the forums does not mean that I do not read them.

Frying Doom wrote:

Oh nice scare tactics, you might have tried "People who do not Vote for the CSM are causing Global warming"
More shock but about the same amount of truth.Lol


I am not even certain how to respond to this without sounding derogatory, so I shall just pass on it.

In summation, you have zero idea what you are arguing about.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Frying Doom
#244 - 2012-09-02 06:45:44 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:


Thank you for proving my point for me. That is a choice. One people make consciously.

Or they have real lives and don't have the time to read the forums or are unaware that anything useful is actually on them.

Cutter Isaacson wrote:

Because the Test Server is NOT an integral part of the game. It is NOT what our subscription fee covers. It may also be worth you noting that the CSM is involved much further up the chain than just waiting for new content/changes to hit the test server. They are now trialling CSM involvement in the ideas stage. I should also point out that my lack of posting in any particular section of the forums does not mean that I do not read them.

Peoples subscription to the game strangely covers the game, every thing else is an extra, your ability to post on the forums or log into SiSi are both an extra. Yes I am aware that the CSM is trialing being further up the development chain as pointed out in the minutes and subsequent comments by CSM members. While SiSi in an integral part of that chain where we the players get to see and comment on changes before they become part of the game.
The fact that you are making a choice not to use SiSi could as easily be used for why you should not be able to vote in the CSM as your argument about people who do not read the forums. Both are extras and not what your subscription pays for.

Cutter Isaacson wrote:

In summation, you have zero idea what you are arguing about.

What I am arguing for is every persons right to be able to make an informed choice about whether or not to vote by being given information in game or directly routed from within the game about the CSM and what it does. Not as you propose to silence people because they are not interested in the meta game.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Josef Djugashvilis
#245 - 2012-09-02 07:27:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:

Be that as it may, a perspective and voice of a high sec player isn't and shouldn't be discounted.


So they should vote then.




I spend most of my time in hi-sec, and voted, for Seleene.

My vote counted for more than the 10,058 mittens threw awaySmile

I find null seccers arrogant assumption that thay 'care' more about Eve that I do, amusing.

But of course, living in 0.0 means you can read other folks minds, right?

This is not a signature.
Frying Doom
#246 - 2012-09-02 07:29:54 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:

Be that as it may, a perspective and voice of a high sec player isn't and shouldn't be discounted.


So they should vote then.




I spend most of my time in hi-sec, and voted, for Seleene.

My vote counted for more than the 10,058 mittens threw awaySmile

I find null seccers arrogant assumption that thay 'care' more about Eve that I do, amusing.

But of course, living in 0.0 means you can read other folks minds, right?

I just thought it was the power to tell everyone what they think.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Ghazu
#247 - 2012-09-02 07:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghazu
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:

Be that as it may, a perspective and voice of a high sec player isn't and shouldn't be discounted.


So they should vote then.




I spend most of my time in hi-sec, and voted, for Seleene.

My vote counted for more than the 10,058 mittens threw awaySmile

I find null seccers arrogant assumption that thay 'care' more about Eve that I do, amusing.

But of course, living in 0.0 means you can read other folks minds, right?


Good choice, mind telling us why as a highsec dweller you didn't vote for issler 'open the door' dainze?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#248 - 2012-09-02 07:34:06 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Or they have real lives and don't have the time to read the forums or are unaware that anything useful is actually on them.


Then they need to make time. Anything else is an excuse.

Frying Doom wrote:

Peoples subscription to the game strangely covers the game, every thing else is an extra, your ability to post on the forums or log into SiSi are both an extra. Yes I am aware that the CSM is trialing being further up the development chain as pointed out in the minutes and subsequent comments by CSM members. While SiSi in an integral part of that chain where we the players get to see and comment on changes before they become part of the game.
The fact that you are making a choice not to use SiSi could as easily be used for why you should not be able to vote in the CSM as your argument about people who do not read the forums. Both are extras and not what your subscription pays for.


Incorrect, I suggest you read the EULA you signed. To be nice, I shall copy and paste the relevant section for you here:

EVE ONLINE EULA:

B. License to Access the System to Play the Game

Upon establishing a valid Account, and subject to your continued compliance with the EULA, CCP grants you a limited, non-exclusive, revocable license to access the System, and to access and use the Game Content and User Content (each as defined below), in order to play EVE online. You may download (and, to the extent permitted by the System, make a single copy for your own purposes in playing the Game) and exchange Game Content and User Content exclusively via a valid Account, solely to play the Game, for purposes permitted by, and in a manner consistent with, the EULA.

Note the section I bolded and underlined, here is the first paragraph of the section to which that comment pertains:

The System may allow you to communicate information, such as by posting messages in chat rooms, on bulletin boards and other user-to-user areas (collectively, "User Content").

So you see, the forums are an integral part of the game and are covered by your subscription fee, unlike the test server. Please stop using it as a prop for your ill thought out argument.

Frying Doom wrote:

What I am arguing for is every persons right to be able to make an informed choice about whether or not to vote by being given information in game or directly routed from within the game about the CSM and what it does. Not as you propose to silence people because they are not interested in the meta game.


They HAVE that choice. The forums are even accessible, though in a limited fashion, without actually having to subscribe to the game. As I said, if people choose not to make use of the facilities provided for by their subscription fees, then that is up to them. I have at no point indicated that I wish for people to be silenced, that is an argument entirely of your own making.



"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#249 - 2012-09-02 07:41:51 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I spend most of my time in hi-sec, and voted, for Seleene.

So you voted for the former CCP developer who was the lead developer responsible for the dominion sov system and the supercaps buff we're still left with today.

:golfclap:

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Josef Djugashvilis
#250 - 2012-09-02 07:50:00 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:

Be that as it may, a perspective and voice of a high sec player isn't and shouldn't be discounted.


So they should vote then.




I spend most of my time in hi-sec, and voted, for Seleene.

My vote counted for more than the 10,058 mittens threw awaySmile

I find null seccers arrogant assumption that thay 'care' more about Eve that I do, amusing.

But of course, living in 0.0 means you can read other folks minds, right?


Good choice, mind telling us why as a highsec dweller you didn't vote for issler 'open the door' dainze?


Most of the candidates seemed to to have something to offer, including the delightful mittens.

I did not vote for mittens - despite the fact that he had many good policies which I agreed with - as his army of goon forum posters came across as childish, arrogant and needlessly insulting to the other candidates.

And, lets be honest about it, mittens does have an 'ego problem'

I went for Seleene as he seems to be a mature, knowledgable, sensible chap who has the interests of ALL of Eve at heart and not just his particular play style.

I did consider voting for Issler, (with a smile on my face) but it would have been mainly to annoy the null seccers - and I wanted my vote to be 'for' something rather than against a player group.

We all pay for, and play Eve, we should stick together instead of all the nonsensical - you don't play my way, so I am better than you - rubbish I see in the forums.

This is not a signature.
Josef Djugashvilis
#251 - 2012-09-02 07:51:04 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I spend most of my time in hi-sec, and voted, for Seleene.

So you voted for the former CCP developer who was the lead developer responsible for the dominion sov system and the supercaps buff we're still left with today.

:golfclap:


Dear Lord Dim, please ignore my posts.

This is not a signature.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#252 - 2012-09-02 07:53:45 UTC
To Josef and Zim, can we try and keep the childish stuff out of here? I would like to see where this thread goes, not have it locked.


Many thanks and kind regards.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Josef Djugashvilis
#253 - 2012-09-02 07:57:45 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
To Josef and Zim, can we try and keep the childish stuff out of here? I would like to see where this thread goes, not have it locked.


Many thanks and kind regards.


A little bit of fun goes a long way

This is not a signature.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#254 - 2012-09-02 07:58:33 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
To Josef and Zim, can we try and keep the childish stuff out of here? I would like to see where this thread goes, not have it locked.

Many thanks and kind regards.

I didn't realize saying that Seleene was the lead developer at the time dominion was developed was childish.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#255 - 2012-09-02 08:01:02 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Or they have real lives and don't have the time to read the forums or are unaware that anything useful is actually on them.


Then they need to make time. Anything else is an excuse.

Other than that is pathetic, I really have no way of responding to that. This is a game real life must by its nature take precedence.



Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Incorrect, I suggest you read the EULA you signed. To be nice, I shall copy and paste the relevant section for you here:

EVE ONLINE EULA:

Note the section I bolded and underlined, here is the first paragraph of the section to which that comment pertains:

The System may allow you to communicate information, such as by posting messages in chat rooms, on bulletin boards and other user-to-user areas (collectively, "User Content").

So you see, the forums are an integral part of the game and are covered by your subscription fee, unlike the test server. Please stop using it as a prop for your ill thought out argument.

So SiSi is not a user to user area then? funny being as I have talked to people on it.

Cutter Isaacson wrote:

They HAVE that choice. The forums are even accessible, though in a limited fashion, without actually having to subscribe to the game. As I said, if people choose not to make use of the facilities provided for by their subscription fees, then that is up to them. I have at no point indicated that I wish for people to be silenced, that is an argument entirely of your own making.

Actually you are making the distinction between people who spend time on the forums and other sites compared to those who only want to play the game. As I have stated if you start making distinctions like that it is easy to justify anything.
This conversation feels like I have gone back in time.

The people in this game who do not currently know what the CSM is have the right to be educated and then make up there own mind as to whether or not they want to vote. Rather than people just saying that they had the ability to read about the CSM, but why would you want to if you did not know what it was or even that it exists.

Leaving over 80% of the population out of the voting process makes no sense considering it would be rather easy to know how many are apathetic and how many just don't know.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#256 - 2012-09-02 08:02:48 UTC
Voting for a candidate because they are "hisec" or"0.0" or whatever is simply stupid.

Vote for a candidate because they have game knowledge and a conception of the game that impresses you, not because one character on one of their accounts spends some of its time in the same type of space as one of yours does. If I ran for the CSM on my cyno alt would that make me suddenly a losec candidate? (Maybe I should; shes prettier than Malc)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Josef Djugashvilis
#257 - 2012-09-02 08:04:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Lord Zim wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
To Josef and Zim, can we try and keep the childish stuff out of here? I would like to see where this thread goes, not have it locked.

Many thanks and kind regards.

I didn't realize saying that Seleene was the lead developer at the time dominion was developed was childish.


Lord Zim, you make a fair point, but then none of the candidates were 'perfect' I just went with the one I thought seemed to be the best overall candidate.

This is not to criticize any of the others, many of them were worthy folk, Two Step etc and I am pleased to see them on the CSM.

This is not a signature.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#258 - 2012-09-02 08:06:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Frying Doom wrote:
The people in this game who do not currently know what the CSM is have the right to be educated and then make up there own mind as to whether or not they want to vote. Rather than people just saying that they had the ability to read about the CSM, but why would you want to if you did not know what it was or even that it exists.

Tell us how people who can't even read the splash screen (which was there for a long time), get curious and try to figure out what this "vote for CSM" thing which has been on the splashscreen for WEEKS is, and why it should matter to them ... don't "have the right to be educated".

Frying Doom wrote:
Leaving over 80% of the population out of the voting process makes no sense considering it would be rather easy to know how many are apathetic and how many just don't know.

Tell us how people who can't even read the splash screen (which was there for a long time), get curious and try to figure out what this "vote for CSM" thing which has been on the splashscreen for WEEKS is, and why it should matter to them ... are being "left out of the voting process".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#259 - 2012-09-02 08:09:12 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Leaving over 80% of the population out of the voting process makes no sense considering it would be rather easy to know how many are apathetic and how many just don't know.


They're not being left out. They're blatantly being asked to participate and they choose to ignore it.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Frying Doom
#260 - 2012-09-02 08:12:40 UTC
Andski wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Leaving over 80% of the population out of the voting process makes no sense considering it would be rather easy to know how many are apathetic and how many just don't know.


They're not being left out. They're blatantly being asked to participate and they choose to ignore it.

Already been over the Banners on login ect.. Andski.

If people do not know what a CSM is how do they know what they are not voting for.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!