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Incarna/WiS Disappointment

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Pipa Porto
#1281 - 2012-08-31 14:15:36 UTC
Piter Bakunin wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Consequences? They are highly overestated. Players only like the consequences that others suffer, but do whatever is in their hands to avoid consequences themselves and boast on how the consequeces they suffer are more than enough. Roll

Everyone is a minmaxer in a win/loss scheme, but then win/loss is not the only way to play.


Inflicting consequences on other players whilst attempting to avoid consequences being inflicted on oneself, sounds like actual gameplay, EVE gameplay. Finally a suggestion for WIS I can get behind. Big smile


Couldn't have said it better myself.


Consequences breed Competition. Competition is what EVE is all about.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1282 - 2012-08-31 16:51:34 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Buylow Sell-High wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Oh, and threads like these become repetitive because the Multiplayer CQ guys keep refusing to specify what actual gameplay a multiplayer CQ will add. And "it'll improve the 'social aspect' of the game" is not an answer.

How dare you imply that simple social interaction isn't gameplay for people. This notion that "actual" or "meaningfull" has to involve some sort of ganking/looting/pvp is absolute bull ****, and only serves the people who want to stall and delay WiS.


Social interaction is facilitated by talking to people. I've seen no evidence that having an avatar to wear in any way facilitates that. If it did, don't you think you'd see people using IMVU instead of TS3/Mumble?

Quote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Again, the Dungeon crawling adventures that Team Avatar has been working on are awesome.

Really? They are? Please tell us about what they look like, and how awesome they are. Oh, and while you are at it, tell CCP,
because I dont think even they know what the duce you are talking about.

Seriuosly, just like every other anti-WiS poster you are just speaking nonsense and spreading lies and half truths, rather than adding some constructive input as to what the future could hold for EVE.

You're just another emote-o-phobic naysayer.


Ummm... here's CCP t0rfifrans's presentation (in Germany, Ghazu sniped me with the Russian one) on the dungeon crawling that they've been working on. Do try to keep up with the thread before trying to call people out.

Locking other people inside and welding the door shut. That's actual, consequential gameplay. Walking around in an empty room with nothing to do but talk to each other (or other actions better done through extant interfaces) is not adding consequential gameplay. It's IMVU in space. Which isn't worth Dev time.

So, I'm anti WIS because I actually want it to succeed instead of launching another installation of "so, what do we do with this empty room" failure. Alrighty...



it is what you think is or is not worth Dev time

You and Ghazu or any other Mittens tool can come up with the same boring routine ,but you are not gonna change the minds of those who want some social structure in EvE

that said ,i am aware that WIS has the potential for removing the only true safe place in EvE ,but only for those who are wardecced and are red for some reason in high so docking games is something from the past
In low and 0.0 it must be easier to shoot someone ,but still within some minor rules ,so at least you have a change to open that keyless door.
So yes in some cases some aggresion in station could be better for EvE.

So for those who don,t want aggression in station ,live by the rules and for those who don,t want social ,sad for you



R.S.I2014
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1283 - 2012-08-31 23:07:02 UTC
I have like the idea of being able to hit those that have an effect. If you are playing with my local markets Ishould be able to pd you,,, though it may cost me a lot and a lot of effort but it will be worth it

Being able to infiltrate a red station via covert ops would be interesting. Climbing through the ducts, bribibing, or charming the guards or killing them quitely. May take me 6 hours and 1bill in isk but I will fill satisfied podding that 4 week old noobs that just won't shut up in local

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Selinate
#1284 - 2012-09-01 00:02:32 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:


I don't really care about WiS that much. But if they do finish it, they had better wait at this point until they have something useful to add, like shops etc.


If memory serves me correctly, WiS would have served to...

A) Provide some minigame content that couldn't have necessarily been employable in the station hangar (they were basically board games and other gambling incentives, if I remember right).

B) Provide players with a way to set up NPC's who can give out some sort of mission or something.

My memory is hazy, but I remember both or something similar to both in older videos showcasing WiS. I'm sure someone can find them. I found both intriguing, not to mention the concept of owning your own bar where you can set the aforementioned stuff up quite easily.

It was also meant to provide some form of co mingling with the Dust players. This in addition to war rooms and what not for corporations/alliances. Am I wrong on this? While I suppose some of these things can be added without WiS, I'm not sure if I'd want it to be. They'd just be more windows thrown into an already window-cluttered eve. WiS had some promise to get us away from the window clutter...

I know this is like 60 pages behind, but I just wanted to comment.
Pipa Porto
#1285 - 2012-09-01 04:25:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
it is what you think is or is not worth Dev time

You and Ghazu or any other Mittens tool can come up with the same boring routine ,but you are not gonna change the minds of those who want some social structure in EvE

that said ,i am aware that WIS has the potential for removing the only true safe place in EvE ,but only for those who are wardecced and are red for some reason in high so docking games is something from the past
In low and 0.0 it must be easier to shoot someone ,but still within some minor rules ,so at least you have a change to open that keyless door.
So yes in some cases some aggresion in station could be better for EvE.

So for those who don,t want aggression in station ,live by the rules and for those who don,t want social ,sad for you



So now you're going with "well, that's just your opinion, so shut up?" Well, of course it's my opinion. Otherwise I wouldn't be saying it, would I? That said, I've explained why I hold that opinion, and what it would take to change my mind (some evidence that multiplayer CQ* would provide some new consequential gameplay). You've decided to retort "well, that's just your opinion," which is a terrible retort because, unless you can show some reason for your own exceptionalism, it applies to your own opinions with equal force.

If adding multiplayer CQ allowed people to shank each other in stations, I would be all for that. I think one of the first posts I made in this thread mentioned that a room with 2 people in it was unacceptable due to lack of consequential gameplay, but a room with 2 people and a knife was perfectly fine, due to that knife providing opportunities for consequential gameplay whether it's used every time or not.

But that's not what's been proposed by the Multiplayer CQ guys. They keep insisting that multiple avatars in one room is a worthy goal in its own right, without the knife or gun that makes that provides the consequential gameplay. In fact, I think this might be the first time you've mentioned aggression in stations.

Yet again, you've failed to show anything to suggest that adding a multi user CQ does anything to encourage socialization. Socialization is talking to other players. Right now, I can talk to any player I want using EVE Voice or Text chat. Multiplayer CQs mean you can talk to only those players you currently happen to share a station with using that tool. Or are you going to claim that a phone call isn't a example of socializing (in which case, I've got an army of teen girls and psychologists who'll tell you that you're full of it).

tl;dr, you're changing your argument to agree with me. Then yelling at me for disagreeing with you. Good job.


*Again, the Space Dungeons Team Avatar's working on look awesome, so I don't think we're disagreeing about those.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ghazu
#1286 - 2012-09-01 04:34:21 UTC
Nowhere is completely safe in eve oldbut,
If you want ensured safety, stay in the cq, exiting the cq is the equivalent of pressing undock.

I don't understand why people think they are entitled to emote each other with impunity 100% safety.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1287 - 2012-09-01 05:29:35 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
....Or are you going to claim that a phone call isn't a example of socializing (in which case, I've got an army of teen girls and psychologists who'll tell you that you're full of it).....


Quit acting so ignorant.

We all know that any person will choose a face to face phone call vs an out dated voice only call
every time, given the choice. Heck, people(especially young people) will and do text with *gasp* .."emotes".. far more
often then they ever do actually make an old school phone call.

What seem to fail to recognize(or admit) is that you are arguing that EVE stay stuck in the past with it's social
interface rather than take advantage of current technology that clearly most people would embrace.
Pipa Porto
#1288 - 2012-09-01 05:38:47 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
....Or are you going to claim that a phone call isn't a example of socializing (in which case, I've got an army of teen girls and psychologists who'll tell you that you're full of it).....


Quit acting so ignorant.

We all know that any person will choose a face to face phone call vs an out dated voice only call
every time, given the choice. Heck, people(especially young people) will and do text with *gasp* .."emotes".. far more
often then they ever do actually make an old school phone call.

What seem to fail to recognize(or admit) is that you are arguing that EVE stay stuck in the past with it's social
interface rather than take advantage of current technology that clearly most people would embrace.



Which is why the Videophone (first introduced in 1936) is a household item, and voice only phone calls no longer exist.

Oh... wait....

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1289 - 2012-09-01 06:02:45 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Soulpirate wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
....Or are you going to claim that a phone call isn't a example of socializing (in which case, I've got an army of teen girls and psychologists who'll tell you that you're full of it).....


Quit acting so ignorant.

We all know that any person will choose a face to face phone call vs an out dated voice only call
every time, given the choice. Heck, people(especially young people) will and do text with *gasp* .."emotes".. far more
often then they ever do actually make an old school phone call.

What seem to fail to recognize(or admit) is that you are arguing that EVE stay stuck in the past with it's social
interface rather than take advantage of current technology that clearly most people would embrace.



Which is why the Videophone (first introduced in 1936) is a household item, and voice only phone calls no longer exist.

Oh... wait....

Who said anything about voice only no longer existing?

Fact is video phones ARE a household item, and have been for the better part of a decade now. Better yet,
they are a pocket held mobile item. I dont think I know a person under the age of 30 that doesn't use some form
of "face time" on their mobile daily. But I guess if we had it your way, we would have to use the postal service to
socialise in EVE, because clearly it must be supeior to new technology, because old people still use it. Roll
Pipa Porto
#1290 - 2012-09-01 06:40:16 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Soulpirate wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
....Or are you going to claim that a phone call isn't a example of socializing (in which case, I've got an army of teen girls and psychologists who'll tell you that you're full of it).....


Quit acting so ignorant.

We all know that any person will choose a face to face phone call vs an out dated voice only call
every time, given the choice. Heck, people(especially young people) will and do text with *gasp* .."emotes".. far more
often then they ever do actually make an old school phone call.

What seem to fail to recognize(or admit) is that you are arguing that EVE stay stuck in the past with it's social
interface rather than take advantage of current technology that clearly most people would embrace.



Which is why the Videophone (first introduced in 1936) is a household item, and voice only phone calls no longer exist.

Oh... wait....

Who said anything about voice only no longer existing?

Fact is video phones ARE a household item, and have been for the better part of a decade now. Better yet,
they are a pocket held mobile item. I dont think I know a person under the age of 30 that doesn't use some form
of "face time" on their mobile daily. But I guess if we had it your way, we would have to use the postal service to
socialise in EVE, because clearly it must be supeior to new technology, because old people still use it. Roll


Soulpirate wrote:
We all know that any person will choose a face to face phone call vs an out dated voice only call


Since any person will chose a face to face phone call over a voice only call, why aren't video phones a household item? And as the number of people who use the Video Chat functions of their smartphones is expected to reach 29 million worldwide by 2015*, I think it's safe to say in a world of ~6 billion people (or heck, put all 30 million facetime users in the US and get a 10% market penetration), face to face mobile communication is not a household item.

Even if it were, we're not talking about adding videoconferencing to EVE, we are talking about a multiplayer version of CQ. Which is decidedly different. So, even if you weren't wrong on the facts, talking about videoconferencing is a red herring.

*Quote from the press release: "Percentage of smartphone users adopting video calling to remain below 10% by 2015 in all markets"

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ghazu
#1291 - 2012-09-01 06:43:23 UTC
That's a lot of words for I want to IMVU in EVE.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1292 - 2012-09-01 07:48:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Ghazu wrote:
That's a lot of words for I want to IMVU in EVE.

"I want to pay a subscription to CCP to use something that's already available for free on other platforms. Furthermore, I want CCP to divert development resources away from other areas of the game to build this subscription-based clone of the f2p option already on the market.

I hate it when CCP innovate, why can't they just copy other people?"

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1293 - 2012-09-01 17:53:57 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
Nowhere is completely safe in eve oldbut,
If you want ensured safety, stay in the cq, exiting the cq is the equivalent of pressing undock.

I don't understand why people think they are entitled to emote each other with impunity 100% safety.


You must have some braindamage , a leftover from that shipspinning sessions

Did i ever say ,i want complete safety in station ?

R.S.I2014
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1294 - 2012-09-01 17:59:37 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
it is what you think is or is not worth Dev time

You and Ghazu or any other Mittens tool can come up with the same boring routine ,but you are not gonna change the minds of those who want some social structure in EvE

that said ,i am aware that WIS has the potential for removing the only true safe place in EvE ,but only for those who are wardecced and are red for some reason in high so docking games is something from the past
In low and 0.0 it must be easier to shoot someone ,but still within some minor rules ,so at least you have a change to open that keyless door.
So yes in some cases some aggresion in station could be better for EvE.

So for those who don,t want aggression in station ,live by the rules and for those who don,t want social ,sad for you



So now you're going with "well, that's just your opinion, so shut up?" Well, of course it's my opinion. Otherwise I wouldn't be saying it, would I? That said, I've explained why I hold that opinion, and what it would take to change my mind (some evidence that multiplayer CQ* would provide some new consequential gameplay). You've decided to retort "well, that's just your opinion," which is a terrible retort because, unless you can show some reason for your own exceptionalism, it applies to your own opinions with equal force.

If adding multiplayer CQ allowed people to shank each other in stations, I would be all for that. I think one of the first posts I made in this thread mentioned that a room with 2 people in it was unacceptable due to lack of consequential gameplay, but a room with 2 people and a knife was perfectly fine, due to that knife providing opportunities for consequential gameplay whether it's used every time or not.

But that's not what's been proposed by the Multiplayer CQ guys. They keep insisting that multiple avatars in one room is a worthy goal in its own right, without the knife or gun that makes that provides the consequential gameplay. In fact, I think this might be the first time you've mentioned aggression in stations.

Yet again, you've failed to show anything to suggest that adding a multi user CQ does anything to encourage socialization. Socialization is talking to other players. Right now, I can talk to any player I want using EVE Voice or Text chat. Multiplayer CQs mean you can talk to only those players you currently happen to share a station with using that tool. Or are you going to claim that a phone call isn't a example of socializing (in which case, I've got an army of teen girls and psychologists who'll tell you that you're full of it).

tl;dr, you're changing your argument to agree with me. Then yelling at me for disagreeing with you. Good job.


*Again, the Space Dungeons Team Avatar's working on look awesome, so I don't think we're disagreeing about those.




yes indeed WIS is about opinions right now

or you like it or you don,t

You and your ghazu friend are trying a bit to hard to press on your opinion on WIS on the wislovers


You want to discuss fine ,stop with the barbie and emoting and we discuss WIS

R.S.I2014
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1295 - 2012-09-01 18:47:54 UTC
I am currently reading eve - the burning life.

after the body mod expo scene I have changed my mind and want CCP to focus heaps of development power towards giving me moving tattoos and transparent skin
Ghazu
#1296 - 2012-09-02 03:50:31 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
it is what you think is or is not worth Dev time

You and Ghazu or any other Mittens tool can come up with the same boring routine ,but you are not gonna change the minds of those who want some social structure in EvE

that said ,i am aware that WIS has the potential for removing the only true safe place in EvE ,but only for those who are wardecced and are red for some reason in high so docking games is something from the past
In low and 0.0 it must be easier to shoot someone ,but still within some minor rules ,so at least you have a change to open that keyless door.
So yes in some cases some aggresion in station could be better for EvE.

So for those who don,t want aggression in station ,live by the rules and for those who don,t want social ,sad for you



So now you're going with "well, that's just your opinion, so shut up?" Well, of course it's my opinion. Otherwise I wouldn't be saying it, would I? That said, I've explained why I hold that opinion, and what it would take to change my mind (some evidence that multiplayer CQ* would provide some new consequential gameplay). You've decided to retort "well, that's just your opinion," which is a terrible retort because, unless you can show some reason for your own exceptionalism, it applies to your own opinions with equal force.

If adding multiplayer CQ allowed people to shank each other in stations, I would be all for that. I think one of the first posts I made in this thread mentioned that a room with 2 people in it was unacceptable due to lack of consequential gameplay, but a room with 2 people and a knife was perfectly fine, due to that knife providing opportunities for consequential gameplay whether it's used every time or not.

But that's not what's been proposed by the Multiplayer CQ guys. They keep insisting that multiple avatars in one room is a worthy goal in its own right, without the knife or gun that makes that provides the consequential gameplay. In fact, I think this might be the first time you've mentioned aggression in stations.

Yet again, you've failed to show anything to suggest that adding a multi user CQ does anything to encourage socialization. Socialization is talking to other players. Right now, I can talk to any player I want using EVE Voice or Text chat. Multiplayer CQs mean you can talk to only those players you currently happen to share a station with using that tool. Or are you going to claim that a phone call isn't a example of socializing (in which case, I've got an army of teen girls and psychologists who'll tell you that you're full of it).

tl;dr, you're changing your argument to agree with me. Then yelling at me for disagreeing with you. Good job.


*Again, the Space Dungeons Team Avatar's working on look awesome, so I don't think we're disagreeing about those.




yes indeed WIS is about opinions right now

or you like it or you don,t

You and your ghazu friend are trying a bit to hard to press on your opinion on WIS on the wislovers


You want to discuss fine ,stop with the barbie and emoting and we discuss WIS

So top talking about emoting and barbie dressups lol and lets talk about some actual wis gameplay.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1297 - 2012-09-02 04:05:14 UTC  |  Edited by: oldbutfeelingyoung
Ghazu wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
it is what you think is or is not worth Dev time

You and Ghazu or any other Mittens tool can come up with the same boring routine ,but you are not gonna change the minds of those who want some social structure in EvE

that said ,i am aware that WIS has the potential for removing the only true safe place in EvE ,but only for those who are wardecced and are red for some reason in high so docking games is something from the past
In low and 0.0 it must be easier to shoot someone ,but still within some minor rules ,so at least you have a change to open that keyless door.
So yes in some cases some aggresion in station could be better for EvE.

So for those who don,t want aggression in station ,live by the rules and for those who don,t want social ,sad for you



So now you're going with "well, that's just your opinion, so shut up?" Well, of course it's my opinion. Otherwise I wouldn't be saying it, would I? That said, I've explained why I hold that opinion, and what it would take to change my mind (some evidence that multiplayer CQ* would provide some new consequential gameplay). You've decided to retort "well, that's just your opinion," which is a terrible retort because, unless you can show some reason for your own exceptionalism, it applies to your own opinions with equal force.

If adding multiplayer CQ allowed people to shank each other in stations, I would be all for that. I think one of the first posts I made in this thread mentioned that a room with 2 people in it was unacceptable due to lack of consequential gameplay, but a room with 2 people and a knife was perfectly fine, due to that knife providing opportunities for consequential gameplay whether it's used every time or not.

But that's not what's been proposed by the Multiplayer CQ guys. They keep insisting that multiple avatars in one room is a worthy goal in its own right, without the knife or gun that makes that provides the consequential gameplay. In fact, I think this might be the first time you've mentioned aggression in stations.

Yet again, you've failed to show anything to suggest that adding a multi user CQ does anything to encourage socialization. Socialization is talking to other players. Right now, I can talk to any player I want using EVE Voice or Text chat. Multiplayer CQs mean you can talk to only those players you currently happen to share a station with using that tool. Or are you going to claim that a phone call isn't a example of socializing (in which case, I've got an army of teen girls and psychologists who'll tell you that you're full of it).

tl;dr, you're changing your argument to agree with me. Then yelling at me for disagreeing with you. Good job.


*Again, the Space Dungeons Team Avatar's working on look awesome, so I don't think we're disagreeing about those.




yes indeed WIS is about opinions right now

or you like it or you don,t

You and your ghazu friend are trying a bit to hard to press on your opinion on WIS on the wislovers


You want to discuss fine ,stop with the barbie and emoting and we discuss WIS

So top talking about emoting and barbie dressups lol and lets talk about some actual wis gameplay.



Ok lets keep the social aspect of WIS on the background on this one

The idea of exploring outside your ship Team Avatar had ,could be a good addition to this game
But why leave it by only that? what if you or some remote controlled clone could enter a players shipwreck to get some extra high value item or even kill the poor one after an pod malfunction and he is trapped in the wreck for lets say 2 minutes

PvP in station?

Can be done ,but in an controlled manner

You can do this to divide every station in parts with his own sec level

or link this to the sec level of the system you are currently in

and when wardecced or aggressed your opponent can kill you ,the moment he sees you in station


edit : do it in a controlled manner so you have a change to get out the cq without getting a headshot the moment you touch that door button ,even in low or 0.0

R.S.I2014
Ghazu
#1298 - 2012-09-02 04:34:42 UTC
The drone idea has already been posted, I don't like it.
Killing in wis should be in a controlled manner I agree, rules according to sec status and etc. Killing should mean something, should mean more than a kill in space, because it is much more personal. A kill in in wis should be as rare and as rewarding as hitting a double eagle in golf.



http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1299 - 2012-09-02 05:14:56 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
The drone idea has already been posted, I don't like it.
Killing in wis should be in a controlled manner I agree, rules according to sec status and etc. Killing should mean something, should mean more than a kill in space, because it is much more personal. A kill in in wis should be as rare and as rewarding as hitting a double eagle in golf.






i don,t like the drone either ,but it was mentioned somewhere
thats why i said "you or some clone"

So how do we make a kill outside the ship a rare and most of all a rewarding event?
what kind of mechanics would allow that?



this is not actual gameplay ,but if one day it is possible to walk around your ship very close or fly around it in hanger to get a feel how big a ship really is ,pls do it ccp




R.S.I2014
Ghazu
#1300 - 2012-09-02 05:23:53 UTC
You say hey let's go make a deal in this dark corner to save on the tax money.
You cut the guy's throat and loot his nex clothes (if he has any)
You cut off the guy's head so you can take out the implants (if he has any) to resell.
But you have to get out of there alive before the cops kill you dead beside the victim.

There might be a need to introduce skills and mechanics, such as hacking where you can disable security cameras or whatever for 10 seconds, then the head surgery skill so you can extract the implants.

Also blowing up a guy's ship while he is in an exploration site is funny as hell, it would be like being trapped in a WH, either get his corpmate to scan the same site down and pick him up or suicide clone out.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984