EVE New Citizens Q&A

So I've recently trained up to being able to fly Gallente Cruisers and took the Thorax out for a spin yesterday in a Level 4 with some Corp buddies. I can't say I was really all that impressed with it and found myself really just wanting to hop in my Rifter or Thrasher instead. I can't really explain why, the Cruiser just didn't "feel right." Haven't gone out with it on a Roam or other PvP related activites, but I can't say I feel motivated to do so with it.

What I want to ask you folks though is if just sticking with Frigates and Destroyers (and their upgraded versions) is a good choice or am I hindering myself by not going on and training up beyond cruisers. I know there are such ships as Covert Ops and Interdictors that lay ahead for me should I go down this particular path. Is it worthwhile to do so though?

Before you answer, I'd like to share some of the experiences I've had thus far to see if they are the norm.

I had recently been a part of a Corp that was hanging out in null sec as part of an alliance of Corps, having joined it in the hopes of getting more PvP experience as the impression I was under was that more PvP would be happening out there.

Kinda... is the result I came up with.

What I found myself doing was acting as a scout for a small gang roam sometimes as I didn't have many skill points to be effective beyond being a suicide tackle. Not a complaint mind you, I rather enjoyed doing that recon job. We'd run into some folks sometimes, blow them up, maybe get blown up ourselves. Either case didn't quite happen as often as I'd like, but that's the nature of roaming around at random I suppose.

What was god awfully painful to sit through was the much larger engagements, where I also played a recon role by being a system over and reporting what was in it, and hear most of the Teamspeak going on about how the opposing Fleet Composition is to OP for the defenders to take, which then lead to the Fleet Commander telling everyone to dock up. There we'd sit for hours until the attackers became bored and left, which the Fleet Commander would then sound an all clear and everyone would just up and go their seperate ways. The actual fighting was little more than pot shots taken at various ships that strayed too far from their respective battle lines, which again was short-lived as typically the fleet I was in just docked up. Can't say that's at all what I signed up for, sitting in a station while there's a hostile force outside.

So there was some good and bad from my short time in Null-Sec. I've since joined another Corp that's based in High-Sec on the edge of Low-Sec with a short hop to Null-Sec for roams that they do.

I have been keeping up somewhat with Dust514 and am aware that there's supposed to be some kind of bonus involved with Destroyers and bombardment, and I do plan on playing Dust514.




To summarize, my interests are in PvP, Null-Sec (assuming my experience isn't the norm and it's more exciting), and flying smaller ships like Frigates and Destroyers. That brings me to the questions I'd like to pose:

• Are Frigates and Destroyers, Tech 1 and up, viable choices as career ships or just for particular situations (Examples: Piracy, Small Gang Roams, Gate Camps, etc.) or do they have a place in larger fleet warfare?


• Is the Null-Sec experience that I detailed above the norm?


• Can one make a lucrative career by flying Frigates and Destroyers, or are Corps/Alliances looking more often for larger ships to fill out their fleets as they're more skill intensive to acquire?

The more descriptive your answers, the better!

No one ever said to me that frigates have no place in pvp or nullsec, it's just been my observation from the larger fleet engagements that they tended to be absent. It's quite possible that they were fail fleet compositions as I can't say I'm familiar with what to put in an attack fleet, but that's why I'm asking the questions that I am.

But with your response in mind, do Frigates (or destroyers) fill only that tackle role? Can they do anything else?

Yes, look at my killboard on battleclinic. They have a place in fleet warfare (fleet being 50+ imo) but its limited and as you have experienced, boring. You cannot use them in gate camps for piracy, but they are super tacklers for wartargets and such on a gate.

Frigs and dessies are a valuable tool for piracy simply because you can catch pods, which are really the only thing worth ransoming.



Though a great deal of the community would probably disagree with me, yes, yes it is the norm. I have tried null a few times and it is simply a huge nap fest, imo. It does get different, as being in a larger ship you will actually get to participate in the not-as-rare-as-you-would-think gigantic (1000+) fleet battles. This is of course is sov null. NPC null is more kind to frigate based pvp.



Yes you can. I could answer this question a lot in detail but i don't feel up to writing all of it atm. Maybe hit me up in game sometime if you don't find your answers here

It really depends on what you want to do, so the first thing you need to do is decide on what interestes you. I know that is vague, but EVE is such a big sand box that you can almost do anything you want.

I most fleet fights you will see your role change if flying frigs or order small stuff.

Your damage is laughable but you will likely be one of the fastest ships on grid:

You will want to provide warp ins for the fleet around and off the grid where the fight is.

Dics in particular and HICs will want to use you to provide that needed warp in to extend the bubble trail without having to burn through 60km of enemy fire.

Providing a few warp ins for the primaries to get out of the hot seat without leaving grid is handy As well.

I short you become a mobility assist for the fleet. Make some safes etc.

I addition, from your new perchs you can zoom into pack by warping to wrecks and engage the enemy support. With the right wear modules you may even be asked to damp enemy ECM etc.

For staged fights around timers etc, you will often end up on the gates with the bubble team to eliminate enemy cyno ships and scouts.


When roaming your best role is as a floating scout, not necessarily just a +1;
You are fast enough to actually wander off the path of the main fleet and scout the systems with ds can etc.

Wensley wrote up a nice post about flying inties in large fights a while back but I can't seem to find it ATM :(

I do not PvP so keep that in mind while reading my advice.

What I have read about PvP from people who supposedly should know is that you should have your most experienced pilots running in scout positions. Also it would seem to me if you want PvP experience you have to commit to go out and loose your ship. You will learn nothing staying docked up. Beyond that there are corps that can teach you PvP like Agony Unleashed and Eve Uni and Red versus Blue ( meaning red alliance and blue alliance ). All in all it sounds like the situation that you were in was less than ideal for learning.

Also I've heard many people say the best way to learn PvP is get 100 rifters set up somewhere and commit to loosing them all. So one thing I've heard of people doing is setting their clone in the station where the rifters are and making sure there is a clone upgrade service in the station and then spend the weekend roaming around low sec try to loose all the rifters in the weekend.

Now on to the part where my advice is more from experience. You will need some way to make isk if you want to PvP. Some of the more common ways like missioning or running anoms in null are often done in Battleships. Most likely at some point you will get into battleships if you stick with the game. The problem with BSs is that they take a fairly high amount of skill points to be really effective. So I would avoid training for a battleship early on. You can also run anoms, complexs, level 4 or 5 missions and incursions all with tech 3 strategic cruisers.

Mining I would avoid training unless you like mining and are specifically training for that. Mining takes a lot of skill points also and more importantly they are skill points that don't help you in PvP where as most of the stuff you would train for mission running for example help with PvP.

If I were to recommend anything to you I would say focus on getting T2 fit first and focus on DPS before most other stuff. So for example if you like the rifter get T2 guns for it then T2 propulsion and tank mods. Once you feel good in the rifter you can decide if you want to go to T2 frigs or move towards medium sized weapon ships like cruisers, strategic cruisers and battlecruisers. Once you are good there then move on to Battleships, if you want.

Done listen to people that tell you that you can't make good isk unless you are running level 4's or 10/10s. Those sites have the most payout but also are the longest to complete. You can make good isk running level 3 missions or null sec belt ratting in BC. Also I've heard of corps that run level 5 missions in Bomber fleets and make crazy isk doing so. So if you want to stick with small sized ships, meaning frigs, destroyers and their T2 versions you totally can do that. Further getting to max skills on those ships does not take long at all. I've also run level 3 missions in Assault frigs with no problem. You can run pirate missions in null sec and those LP are worth a decent amount also and the level 2 and 3 missions in null pay decent LP.

Bottom line is that if your corp can't find a place to put you that you are of use then they aren't the right corp for you. One thing that I love about this game is that unlike WoW you can get in this game and day one be in fleet with 10 year old toons with over 100 million skill points and be of use and effective.

One more thing of note is that a ship is not just what it is. What I mean by that is there are many ships that I flew and did not like early on and later found a fit or with more skill points began to like the ship. It took me over two years of playing this game before I could actually come up with a decent fit but early on I just thought most ships sucked and did not realize that it was just that my fits were poor. Each ship has it's strengths and weaknesses as well as several different ways that it can be flown there is no best ship in game and no best fit for any given ship. You'll have to play around with various ships and find a style that works for you and a way to fit that also works with your style.

There is a lot to this game and 3 years into it I still learn how to become a better pilot everyday. The complexity of the game can be a lot of fun and keep things interesting for years to come. Just don't become overwhelmed in the begining. Take things as they come and enjoy the learning cliff.

There are corporations out there that make isk purely from PvP, be it mercs or pirates or what ever. I have no experience in that and you would need to find someone else if that was the path you chose.

My interests, as Do'Mai asked which I was pretty sure I had answered just prior to asking more detailed questions, are in PvP, Null-Sec, and flying Frigates and Destroyers and asked some questions relating to those. It's fantastic that there are so many iterations on what any particular thing I can do, but asking me to get more specific when saying that there's limitless potential for everything in EVE leaves me scratching my head. I thought I'd made it pretty clear what my interests were in this rather large, in-depth game.

Please note that I'm not asking for specifics on fits or the best way on how to do a thing as I'm confident I can figure that out and then put variation on theme to accomplish a particular task. For instance, you mention ISK flow in your previous post. Some of those activities I'm already engaging in. It's good information, but not what I was asking after.

What I am asking, from what I've observed thus far on this go 'round in EVE (played for a little bit back in 2004 with some friends, not for long though) is whether these things I've witnessed are the standard, what can I expect the reaction to be from others (Corporation Members or Independents) as I progress down this path I've chosen, and can it be a rewarding experience. So far I've gotten some pretty good, constructive answers w/ data behind them to see that I am most certainly on a strong path.

As the fights get bigger destroyers start to fill a more defensive/deterrent role, frigates become tacklers and scouts. Af's get used as faster heavy tackle and anti tackle. Intys are used as fast tackle. Dictors are always in demand and bombers make blobs cry when used properly.
the role of small ship is also up to the FC and he will make his calls based on fleet comp. it's best to have a few choices on hand if you expecting a fleet op, and even if you don't fly BC's often its good to have the skills to get into a decently fit one.

Quoted myself instead of editing. Sorry

Stealth Bomber, maybe? You can scout like a ************, and then when the fight starts you can decloak and blow people to kingdom come.

It's also not very SP-intensive to get it up to workable level (Torpedoes 4 since most fits can't support T2 launchers, covert ops 4 to get a decent chunk of the damage bonus, and you're good to go).

I mean, it's still a frigate so it's armored in toilet paper, bubble gum and prayer, but with the cloak you can pick your engagements so it's easier for a newer player to work with than some of the more dogfightey ships.

Though, all this said, nothing wrong with your T1 ships either, just because it's not the most damage in the fleet doesn't mean what it does won't help, even on a full T1 fit at low skills. Damage is damage, and if you blow up it's not like it hurts the rest of your fleet.