Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Misrepresent things much?

I have mostly been suggesting tracking bonuses because these precisely do not help at all in the big fleet stuff work where Amarr ships are best at. They help most where Amarr ships SUCK, namely dealing with smaller ships which is useful for soloing and small gang stuff. If you read the list I prepared, you would notice that I gave tracking bonuses to all ships currently considered "good" precisely for the above reason. No, the Armageddon or Oracle will not become overpowered with a tracking bonus. Fleet doctrine Zealot AHAC won't either because they already track their targets perfectly fine.

A damage bonus on the Maller, Prophecy, Legion drone & covert subsystems is not asking too much.

20% more dps on the Crusader and Retribution is not insane. We have rocket ships doing more than these nowadays. Even if you disagree, the actual bonus is something one can reasonably discuss because these ships are on the low end of the dps spectrum and they are not popular.

The only other ship I suggested a damage bonus was the Apocalypse. Why? Because I figured that we should be seeing a lot pulse Apocs with all the Drakes and Tengus around, if the ship was fine. For sniping, people overwhelmingly prefer rails and artillery.

Nowhere have I suggested an optimal bonus. The only armor resist bonus was on the Harbinger, as suggested by CCP Ytterbium in the CSM meetings. In fact I have been very careful to not make any of the good ships noticably better at what they're already good at.

As for whether the laser cap usage bonus is THE problem, I think the Maller & Prophecy & Legion subsystems have demosntrated that very well. The cap usage bonus bonus is not good enough to make people fit lasers on these ships. So I think it's clear that there is a problem and that's why I'm posting here. I want to know what CCP has planned to do.

PS: even with "incredibly powerful lasers", in 2011 Amarr ships were slightly below Gallente ships in pvp destruction as proven in this devblog: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3407
(now we're back to opinion & anecdote vs data)

Armageddon is not underpowered. Its not cap stable but not under powered.

Just fitting Dual Heavy Pulse Lasers II and one heat sink with perfect skills will have the Geddon run out of cap. Lasers in general with all the buffs to Hybrids and Projectiles aren't so good that it should be okay for that to be true.

And for comparison, lets say you do fit a cap booster. Every boost you use gets you less than it does on a Hybrid because the straight cap amount needed is so much more with lasers. Oh and because Amarr have small (expensive) ammo and cargo holds, you have less cap booster charges than other ships.

Other than getting rid of the cap use bonus, what replaces it I am less concerned with as it doesn't have to be something that bonuses straight damage or damage projection. But giving Amarr two useful bonuses on their ships does seem to be fair. Or how they make that possible and balanced. They could fix all the hulls to be viable with laser cap use or just change laser cap use.

And I'm posting in this thread cause they are balancing Amarr ships that still have the cap use bonus and no one from CCP has answered any of the threads about it. (That I know of, please link me something if I'm wrong.)

Slot layout looks good. Missile boats don't need much in the way of utilities usually because they're so far out.

The Breacher with Drones is OMGWTF. I Approve. :) This will be a sexy ride.

Seems like plenty of fitting space. I guess I really don't have much to say. Maybe a little more cargo space for the Cap Boosters for the Ancillary Shield booster?? :)

aside from the logi frig comments I am excited to try out the breacher. Kestrel seems great as well.

Stop trying to cram T2 missiles on everything and your problem is solved. Not every frigate should be able to fit point/web/mwd/ and the most hardcore launchers of its size.

Learn to prioritize like the other races do.

The Tristan could easily have its hybrid tracking bonus replaced with a 5% per level drone damage bonus and still be within the realms of frig damage.

No missile ship is a little disappointing but I do like the idea of new drone frigate (I do think the Tristan model looks really cool with rocket launchers though, shame), the bonuses look good but I am a little concerned over the fitting stats, give how much it has changed roles moving into a drone boat is potentially much more CPU intensive.

Given its current proposed CPU level you can pretty much right off many drone upgrades.

I tried to spec out how I might fit it and came up with this.

[Tristan, New]
Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier I

1MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Assuming my maths is correct Drone damage mod cannot be T2 due to CPU and Ions cannot be Neutrons due to CPU and Powergrid.

Yes you could use fitting mods but meta tackle and T2 damage mod seems a pretty basic request and this is before we try and create a kiting long point fit with rails and midslot drone upgrades. Drone rigs are also going to be tricky to fit and I really would have liked to make use of them on a ship like this.

114dps from drones

Ions give around with 72dps Navy Antimatter 57dps with Null.

I looked again and 75mm rails would free up cpu and given the tracking bonus is perhaps the intension.

75mm Rails add 46dps with Navy Antimatter and you can T2 the damage mod for 118drone dps

Even 3-4 more CPU would make a difference and allow a drone rig maybe.

no its going to be a logi frig... and there is going to be a tech II one too! (soon™)

Will the model for the Ishkur eventaully change, now there is no T2 Tristan Model?

CCP Fozzie Thanks for the constant updates, it’s really refreshing to have this amount of Dev involvement in the balancing threads. Please can you nudge Mr Ytterbium regarding his destroyer thread.

tbh you point is invalid ive setup a kestral with an mwd and its been stable and now it has more pwg i dont see prob here plus this now has extra base fireing distance and lock range even with old stats i had a kestral with 2.3k ms and over a 50k lock and fire range