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Why no support for solo PvE players?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#121 - 2012-08-15 01:02:10 UTC
Ensign X wrote:
Yes.
I'm sorry, we're talking about TQ here, no sisi, so yes. Yes they do. You cannot do any of those without competing with other players. It's inherent in how EVE works on a fundamental level.

There is no “may” about it.
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#122 - 2012-08-15 01:03:08 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

Which of those 5 allow you to do anything without competing with other players?

Missions - Each LP or ISK you earn reduces the value of everyone else's LP/ISK
Mining - Each rock you mine is unavailable to other miners, and each mineral you mine reduces the value of everyone else's minerals.
Exploration - Competition for Sites, and Loot you pick up reduces the value of everyone else's loot.
Wormholes - The above + Shooting each other
Industry - Market Competition.

Every single one puts you in direct competition with other players.

There's an argument to be made there, but I wonder how many highsec PvE players recognize that their actions affect others.

MinerBumping.com
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#123 - 2012-08-15 01:10:10 UTC
James 315 wrote:
There's an argument to be made there, but I wonder how many highsec PvE players recognize that their actions affect others.
Considering how often some variation of “I'm not messing with you so why are you messing with me?” comes up as an argument from that camp…

Three?
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#124 - 2012-08-15 01:12:18 UTC
Darth Snuggles wrote:
Pip Mayo wrote:
I am sorry if I have wasted anyone's time with this question. If anyone develops a game similar to EVE that supports PvE players, please let me know. For now, I guess I will have to suffer less evolved games.


SW:ToR is that way --------------------------------->


This is especially hilarious as it is pointing to my roommates computer on my screen.

He worked on TOR.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#125 - 2012-08-15 01:12:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
James 315 wrote:
There's an argument to be made there, but I wonder how many highsec PvE players recognize that their actions affect others.
Considering how often some variation of “I'm not messing with you so why are you messing with me?” comes up as an argument from that camp…

Three?


Don't tar all of us with that brush, PvP is like a kitten, it can happen to anyone.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ensign X
#126 - 2012-08-15 01:15:19 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ensign X wrote:
Yes.
Yes they do.


Then we're in agreement.
Xion Martinus
Doomheim
#127 - 2012-08-15 01:18:12 UTC
Jim Era wrote:
Pip, its because of the design of EVE. its designed to be a 'real' universe...where anything can happen.
Yes some may cause you dismay at not being able to do whatever you may be doing, but that is 'life' and that is how EVE is intended to be.
You can always pay,hire,recruit etc someone to get rid of the players that are hindering you.


^This... This makes the game very realistic imho. You are never truly safe in RL, so it adds an element of realism when you are not safe in EVE as well...

Epeen:  Behavior quite commonly found on online discussion boards or similar, where some loser tries to establish his superiority - and thus the merit of his or her opinion - by stating how skilled and awesome he or she is, rather than forming a sound argument. Generally also used to condescendingly refer to someones ego.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2012-08-15 01:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Pipa Porto wrote:

Missions - Each LP or ISK you earn reduces the value of everyone else's LP/ISK - Only if the LP is used, there are those who have millions of LP for lack of knowing what to spend it on or just not wanting to which has no influence on the value of other LP
...
Exploration - Competition for Sites, and Loot you pick up reduces the value of everyone else's loot. - Only if sold, but merely completing/looting sites does prevent others from being able to do them until they respawn

Boredom induced nitpicking
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#129 - 2012-08-15 01:30:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ensign X wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Ensign X wrote:
Yes.
They always put you into competition, yes.
Then we're in agreement.
We agree that you cannot avoid the competition, yes. There is no “may” about it since it's built into the very foundation of the game and it's nice of you to admit that the word doesn't belong there.
Pipa Porto
#130 - 2012-08-15 01:46:44 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Which of those 5 allow you to do anything without competing with other players?

Missions - Each LP or ISK you earn reduces the value of everyone else's LP/ISK
Mining - Each rock you mine is unavailable to other miners, and each mineral you mine reduces the value of everyone else's minerals.
Exploration - Competition for Sites, and Loot you pick up reduces the value of everyone else's loot.
Wormholes - The above + Shooting each other
Industry - Market Competition.

Every single one puts you in direct competition with other players.

There's an argument to be made there, but I wonder how many highsec PvE players recognize that their actions affect others.


Recognized or not, it's there.

I think there's also a DSM-IV-TR diagnoses for not realizing your actions affect others.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#131 - 2012-08-15 01:49:01 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Missions - Each LP or ISK you earn reduces the value of everyone else's LP/ISK - Only if the LP is used, there are those who have millions of LP for lack of knowing what to spend it on or just not wanting to which has no influence on the value of other LP
...
Exploration - Competition for Sites, and Loot you pick up reduces the value of everyone else's loot. - Only if sold, but merely completing/looting sites does prevent others from being able to do them until they respawn

Boredom induced nitpicking


Even if you don't use LP, you still gain ISK, and still consume materials (or Manufacturing slots if you built every single thing you use from materials you collected yourself).

Completing them prevents others from completing them. That's what I mean by competition for sites. And again, you consume materials.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2012-08-15 01:54:34 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Missions - Each LP or ISK you earn reduces the value of everyone else's LP/ISK - Only if the LP is used, there are those who have millions of LP for lack of knowing what to spend it on or just not wanting to which has no influence on the value of other LP
...
Exploration - Competition for Sites, and Loot you pick up reduces the value of everyone else's loot. - Only if sold, but merely completing/looting sites does prevent others from being able to do them until they respawn

Boredom induced nitpicking


Even if you don't use LP, you still gain ISK, and still consume materials (or Manufacturing slots if you built every single thing you use from materials you collected yourself).

Completing them prevents others from completing them. That's what I mean by competition for sites. And again, you consume materials.

Was agreeing with you on the point about completing sites. Isk also, when generated through means like bounties, only becomes a competitive factor once used, though it would be hard to go for any significant time without some market interaction.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#133 - 2012-08-15 01:58:26 UTC
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:
Anslo wrote:
People wrote:
stuff about my losses


So? I had fun tossing Archons around like no bodies business. Isn't that the point? Go pew and have fun? If you loose something, d'oh well!

At least I have the balls to run around with a carrier. Don't fly what you can't afford to loose? Well...I can afford to loose a LOT :3



Inmates love qualities like that.


This unfortunate condition is sometimes referred to as More Isk Than Brains Syndrome. Its worst manifestations can be seen in Jita. For example, when under a wardec, a player may undock with a Slave set and 4B in cargo or a faction-fit Paladin...or both, on the same day.

The etiology off MIT-BS is unknown. Genetic predisposition has been shown to play a role in at least two uncontrolled studies; but environmental contamination and prion mutations have not been ruled out.

Victims most likely to succumb to the disorder range in age between 14 and 21. Interestingly enough, the second most commonly affected demographic is 40 to 50 years of age, or otherwise may be in mid-life or menopausal crisis.

Shunned by players for throwing away Isk, most victims reside in NP Corporations. Generally, though, this often carefree lot gains a following of fans, including: pirates, km whores, assertive PvPers, beggars, and class clowns.



Actually I was referring to his liberal use of the word loose instead of lose yo.

yeah

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Ensign X
#134 - 2012-08-15 01:59:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ensign X
Tippia wrote:
Ensign X wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Ensign X wrote:
Yes.
They always put you into competition, yes.
Then we're in agreement.
We agree that you cannot avoid the competition, yes. There is no “may” about it since it's built into the very foundation of the game and it's nice of you to admit that the word doesn't belong there.


Then it's a philosophical difference of opinion and we can agree to disagree.

I believe that PVE does exist in EVE and while it might not be prudent or financially advantageous it is possible to avoid competition if not wholly then at least partially in most of the activities in EVE that would conventionally be considered "PVE".

I also believe it's possible to enjoy EVE without a second thought about the ramifications of how the way you play it affects others. Some people shoot rats. Some people shoot rocks. Some people shoot other people. Some people just fly space ships. Labels don't matter. It's just EVE. Peace, Love and Spaceships, Brother. Big smile

edit: added smiley.
Myxx
The Scope
#135 - 2012-08-15 02:00:11 UTC
Pip Mayo wrote:
Why is this game built on a PvP environment? There appears to be no place for PvE-only players. Even when joining a corp for support, there has to be PvP elements to prevent PvE activities from being disrupted by PvP players. I am not talking about PvE missions or DED space. I am talking about PvE merchants and miners. Is there such a thing?? Can a player expand as a courier or a miner without PvP support? So far, I cannot find a way to do it.

Everyone with whom I have had contact seems to feel this game is both PvE and PvP, yet they always stipulate you must protect yourself, you must not risk more than you are willing to lose, you should join a corp for protection, etc. Where in there lies a PvE game?

The game seems handicapped for solo PvE play. I guess maybe there are not enough solo PvE players to make a difference. Can anyone say different?

You're doing it wrong. EVE may not be the right fit for you. I'd suggest WoW or SWTOR instead. There is no PVE-only play. If you want to have NO interaction with PVP whatsoever, you cannot log in and do anything but stay docked. Even market trading is a form of PVP.
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2012-08-15 02:16:22 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
[quote=THE L0CK][quote=Anslo][quote=People] stuff about my losses


Actually I was referring to his liberal use of the word loose instead of lose yo.

yeah


The reply wasn't about you. It should be obvious from the quoted parts and content but I'll fix the quote hiccup.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#137 - 2012-08-15 02:18:46 UTC
Ensign X wrote:
I believe that PVE does exist in EVE and while it might not be prudent or financially advantageous it is possible to avoid competition if not wholly then at least partially in most of the activities in EVE that would conventionally be considered "PVE".
I'll post my standard copypasta for when people ask for some kind of PvP-toggle just for reference:

A "no PvP" switch in EVE would have to have at least the following restrictions:
· You can obviously no longer lock any player ship.
· You can no longer activate any kind of AoE weaponry or module.
· You can no longer use the market, contracts or the trading window.
· You can no longer access or manage POSes and their services.
· You can no longer mine.
· You can no longer shoot rats.
· You can no longer open any kind of container in space.
· You can no longer use the on-board scanner or scan probes.
· You can no longer be in a fleet.
· You can no longer use salvagers.
· You can no longer access the industry interface.
· You can no longer access player-sovereign systems.
· You can no longer access free-floating permanent sites in space.
· You can no longer see local.
· You no longer show up in local.
· You can no longer see other player ships on the overview.
· You no longer show up on other player's overviews.
· You can no longer join a player corp.

Some of those aren't entirely relevant here since they're there to highlight things in which you'd be able to abuse a no-PvP switch, which is a different issue entirely, but that's the nature of copypasta. The point here is: any time you gain any kind of resource — and this includes such abstract things as “a spot in space” (for your POS) — you ensure that someone else is not getting that resource. It is now yours and yours alone and it has been denied everyone else (unless and until they blow you up and take it). The instant you go on the market and there is already an order for the same item you're trading in, you're competing with that other player for the best price (lowest or highest depending on which side of the equation you are) and for the item or ISK you're after.

There is one exception to all this: missions, and in that particular case the exception only extends to the actual mission itself. No-one can stop you from clicking the “request mission” button to spawn a new one, and no-one can stop you form clicking the “complete mission” button (but they can occasionally keep you from having the assets required to do so) and thereby cash in any outstanding rewards — those two actions are completely without competitive elements… but then you have to do something with those rewards and you're straight back into competition territory. And anything inbetween those two clicks is something where other players are out to get you and nick your stuff.

Quote:
I also believe it's possible to enjoy EVE without a second thought about the ramifications of how the way you play it affects others.
This is true. it's just doesn't remove the simple fact that there are such ramifications and it just means you've got blinders on. Ignorance and nonchalantness is always possible. It still doesn't make it PvE — it's more a player vs. wilfully-induced-filter-of-things-that-go-on-in-the-world-around-you… but I don't think PvWIFOTGOITWAY is an industry-standard concept. P
Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
#138 - 2012-08-15 02:21:05 UTC
Even as a PvE game, it's still among the more strategic MMOs out there if not one of the most challenging.

For that reason, I think PvE players should get some love.
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2012-08-15 02:23:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
[ It still doesn't make it PvE — it's more a player vs. wilfully-induced-filter-of-things-that-go-on-in-the-world-around-you… but I don't think PvWIFOTGOITWAY is an industry-standard concept. P


I may not agree with all of what you've said, though have no argument with most of it.

BUT...

This is some savory linguistics here. May I quote you? :)
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#140 - 2012-08-15 02:24:28 UTC
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
[quote=THE L0CK][quote=Anslo] stuff about my losses


Actually I was referring to his liberal use of the word loose instead of lose yo.

yeah


The reply wasn't about you. It should be obvious from the quoted parts and content but I'll fix the quote hiccup.



Well that's just rude. It's like staring at the person but your actually holding a conversation through your blutooth.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?