EVE General Discussion

I disagree. EVE has, since its creation, been predicated on the concept that nowhere is "safe" and PvP is primarily non-consensual.

Hisec should be "safer" certainly, but the only place you should be safe from a war-dec is a noobcorp. This is no longer the case.

I second the call for a blue tag response on this thread. And for that matter, I'd like to see what the CSM have to say.

The effect of sanctioning war dec work around previously acknowledged as exploits, no matter how spotty enforcement was, radically changes risk/reward in empire and deeply impacts mercenaries, vengeful carebears, and anyone who just plain hates each other.

If this was not run by the CSM, it sounds like Hilmar's letter is just a thrown bone and the march to hollow out EVE's essential characteristics continues. If they DID run it by them, seriously what the ****?

Effectively: Alliance hopping and Dec shields are now OK.

I understand the reasoning for wanting the mechanics to take primacy, rather than judgement calls by GMs.

However, legitimising alliance hopping has now made hisec POSes effectively invulnerable. CCP should fix the mechanics to make wardecs stick to corps, regardless of joining and leaving alliances, or the combination of an alliance hop and a long stront timer will 100% protect any hisec POS. And CCP should do this before legitimising alliance hopping.

Dec shields are another matter - the effect now is that large alliances that can afford to maintain a dec shield are protected from decs from small griefer organisations. There is a value to this, but it is effectively diluting the "non-consensual" part of the sandbox and is heading in a direction I don't like.

About as fun as waiting to bridge into low-sec on a caracal ...

The mechanic you are referring, as far as i know. to is aggress the tower continuously for up to 18 hours before being able to shoot it out of RF with whatever chars still had aggression. On a scale of 1-10, how reasonable would you say that way is?

And you reply does not address the other issues created by this ruling. I would like to see comments from beyond the GM department for more information.

Now you're trying to have your cake and eat it too ...

As I see it .. it falls under the same category as 'Log-Offski' ...

Now considering war decs ... i am allowed to move freely between corps to avoid the war ... the burden of proof is now on you to prove i was corp hopping to 'suprise' war targets ...



... OR IS IT ???



Enlighten us WITHOUT creative work arounds stretching game mechanics ...

You're right, the current war mechanics do leave a lot to be desired. You can't possibly think that forcing small mercenary and pirate outfits to pay hundreds of millions per week to declare wars on fat, multi-hundred-member alliances (who essentially lose nothing when employing properly-managed dec-shields) is rational, can you?

Okay, have it your way. I made a writeup in a new post here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=20581 that outlines proposed changes to the war system, both new and old.

Exactly!

It would be even better if CCP could implement the ability to join what ever NPC corp you wanted.

In reality this war deck avoidance option has been around for a good while. In all reality whole alliances could continue, albeit in a cumbersome manner, to operate at similar levels, via private chat rooms, voice coms, etc. while completely avoiding war decks. High sec aggression mechanics are a problem but the only real solution is to revert to the colder days of EVE where people truly had to be responsible for their actions/stuff. Unfortunately going back to the pre-CONCORD days would kill EVE just as fast or faster possibly.


Slade

Looks like a field repair to me.

What's the ratio of high-sec wardecs for the goal of griefing noob corps to wealthy high-sec corps escaping challenges to their position?


The general idea of the war declaration is to pay off CONCORD to get the rights to blow up some other organizations assets for what purpose? I suspect the intended idea was leverage. If you want to mine all the ore and ice, but someone who is better at it is doing it in the same space you want to do it, you kill them.

Fair enough. That's Eve.


But what is the statistic of high-sec corps being war decced actually being such organizations in a dominating position?

How many are small noob corps simply getting decced so some ass-hats who can't handle low-sec or afford 0.0 rent can pad their killboards?

This reminds me of the hunting rules in the USA. Most of these rules seem dumb and redundant, like not being able to use a high-capacity magazine - but the rules exist because: "Some moron already did something dumb so now there's a rule for it".

So while the concept of the war dec is sound based on the original reason, the USE of the war dec as a utility for griefers has pretty much ruined it for everybody.


So y'all abused the toy and fought over it, now mommie's taking it away.

Have you ever heard the expression, “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink”? The fundamental issue here is that some people just don’t want to fight. The devs and GMs and mercenaries may wish otherwise and may seek to find ways to force the issue, but those efforts are doomed to failure.

If a dec mechanic locked a corporation into an alliance (or out of one) and locked every single member into that corporation for the duration of the war, it would only lead to people leaving the game. The only result of a push to force people to PvP is that there will be no PvP from those people. It’s just not going to happen. Just like its not happening now, just like it hasn’t been happening for years. This ruling changes nothing in practice. Those people were always avoiding the decs. The only people affected by hisec wardecs are those with an attachment to their corp name, those with a POS that can’t be taken down quickly, and those who don’t know better. That’s it.

CCP should spend a little time gathering information from those players about why they don’t want to fight. Or under what conditions they would.

At the end of the day, this is what we’re really talking about when we’re talking about wardec shields and evasion. Like it or not, you can lead a carebear to war, but you can’t make him fight.