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Customer Support lifting previous restrictions regarding war decs

First post First post First post
Author
GM Karidor
Game Masters
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2011-10-11 16:51:53 UTC
The reactions are mixed, as expected. However, lifting those rules is only the first step. We know that the current war mechanics leave a lot to desire (which is one reason those rules were set down in the first place), and there will be more to come in this regard. When exactly, this I sadly don't know, but lifting those rules will give us a better view on the various loopholes that exist within the mechanics (for both, attackers and defenders).

Having said that, if you have ideas on how to improve war mechanics and make them more sound and useful, it probably is a good time to create (or revive) according threads on the Features and Ideas Discussions forum in this regard.

GM Karidor | Senior Game Master

Iam Kikas
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#42 - 2011-10-11 17:09:08 UTC
Well, based upon the current calendar of events leading to this point now, we can expect resolution in 2014? Will be interesting to see if the slow death that Eve has been experiencing in the past year will be complete by then.
Jennifer Celeste
The Dark Horses.
#43 - 2011-10-11 17:45:23 UTC
so then if "allianc hopping" is allowed to AVOID a dec, surely I can join a corp while sitting in a target's mission and shoot him right?

Or is this still an exploit? If youre going to change one rule, you better sure as **** change all the rules.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
The Network.
#44 - 2011-10-11 18:12:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde
While I can appriciate the work load enforcing the old rule put on the GM department, releasing this ruling without ammending the game mechinics, or even releasing a concrete plan to do so, is a serious mistake in judgement.

You have single handidly killed gameplay for small merc corps and alliances.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

Viqer Fell
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2011-10-11 18:14:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Viqer Fell
Wow what an appalling choice.

Doesn't really impact on me anymore since I no longer run a merc alliance and play in 0.0 but it still makes me think that it's a **** choice.

As for reviving the "flogging a dead horse" posts regarding war decs there have been countless valid suggestions as to how to fix the mechanics over the years and none have been acted upon or even really developed since very early in the game's lifespan.

Removing the restrictions to allow you to find out what the loopholes are is a sadly, disingenious argument as we and you (assuming you haven't lived under a rock for five years) already know what the major issues are from both sides of the fence.

I'm not saying there is a quick win or a fix that will keep everyone happy but dropping the existing rules that were put in place for good reasons before there is even talk of an "answer" is just jaw-doppingly ill-conceived.
Renegade
The Reclaimators
TAXU
#46 - 2011-10-11 18:38:54 UTC
While I agree its a poor desicion I am not sure what it changes.

Everytime I have petitioned anyone doing this sort of thing I get the standard 'go away I can't be bothered dealing with this' reponse.

Business as usual as far as I see it.

ArmyOfMe
Teddybears.
Dead Terrorists
#47 - 2011-10-11 18:56:16 UTC
GM Karidor wrote:
The reactions are mixed, as expected. However, lifting those rules is only the first step. We know that the current war mechanics leave a lot to desire (which is one reason those rules were set down in the first place), and there will be more to come in this regard. When exactly, this I sadly don't know.

Then dont bloody change the mechanics before you have an idea how the new mechanics should beRoll

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.

RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2011-10-11 19:54:54 UTC
Oh wow is CCP trying to kill this game? Thats the only feeling im left with now after every decision they make these days.

Do you guys get together and say HOW can we make the game worse each day?

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **

The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
#49 - 2011-10-11 20:36:31 UTC
Being in a CORP -or- ALLIANCE shouldn't be a given ... if they dont want to be dec'd ... stay in an NPC corp Blink

PROBLEM SOLVED with out alienating anyone Bear

SniffSniffSniff
Doomheim
#50 - 2011-10-11 20:52:53 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
While I can appriciate the work load enforcing the old rule put on the GM department, releasing this ruling without ammending the game mechinics, or even releasing a concrete plan to do so, is a serious mistake in judgement.

You have single handidly killed gameplay for small merc corps and alliances.


Not really. Your targets have been evading you by dropping corp for a very long time. No more hisec POS bashes perhaps, but given your decs on all the major alliances, I suspect you have plenty to keep you entertained in 0.0.

The PitBoss wrote:
Being in a CORP -or- ALLIANCE shouldn't be a given ... if they dont want to be dec'd ... stay in an NPC corp Blink

PROBLEM SOLVED with out alienating anyone Bear

If you want to PvP go to 0.0 or losec. There! Problem solved.
Velora Nyleve
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2011-10-11 21:23:15 UTC
Dumb change.

Won't really impact anything, as this exploiting is already standard for many (particularly POS owners), but the message it conveys to those of us who play for "the sandbox" is terrible. EVE should always be a game of risk vs reward. Empire is far too safe already (break it up into small islands surrounded by lowsec, etc, yo).

If people don't want to deal with wars, they already have the "safe" option of sitting in an NPC corp. If they want the perks of a "real" corp (0% tax, pos anchoring, standing boosting, etc), then it's only right they expose themselves to a degree of risk (that they can't dodge with a couple of clicks), to compensate for their increased means to generate income.

I appreciate there may be further changes planned, etc, but I don't think legalising it was neccesary. There should already be mountains of information on the subject, given it never stopped.
TS5P
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2011-10-11 21:23:29 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Oh wow is CCP trying to kill this game? Thats the only feeling im left with now after every decision they make these days.

Do you guys get together and say HOW can we make the game worse each day?


Totally agree.

Quote:
There were definitely moments in recent history when I wish I would have listened more and taken a different path. Somewhere along the way, I began taking success for granted. As hubris set in, I became less inclined to listen to pleas for caution. CCP HELLMAR


But the poor decisions continue.
penifSMASH
ElitistOps
WE FORM V0LTA
#53 - 2011-10-11 21:31:57 UTC
someone explain to me in simple terms what this means, I am unfamiliar with empire wardec mechanics
Blackcamper
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2011-10-11 22:27:58 UTC
Well. I see ways that is can be done to serve the attacker and defender.

i will say to the player's that say " go to low or 0,0 if you want pvp " YOU MAD.
so the guy the get gank in a ice belt and lose his orca and macinaw. well no longer have the change to get back at the person the kill him or hire merc's to do the job.

I know that many corps in hi sec are just war dec to get easy kill's, but some of us like to help out the guy the got gank.

So when you get them to move out of hi sec and in low or 0,0. then i'l be out of the job as a merc.

And i have live in 0,0 and i know that it is carebare haven out there.



There Was NO WARNING Of Their ARRIVAL! They Had No MERCY! They Gave NO QUARTER!

http://screenshotuploader.com/s/1307gxodd

Viqer Fell
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2011-10-11 22:29:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Viqer Fell
It means that people or corps who persistently avoided wars by various mechanics and who would have been stopped from doing so under the previous "rules" now can freely avoid wars.

One impact for example is that this essentially makes all high sec pos's invulnerable for the corps who have a clue.

As eve has changed over the years Empire has more and more become a refuge for people with alts to earn isk safely and without risk whilst having their pvp character in 0.0.

Eve was never about being safe and it was never about making empire the area for alts and 0.0 for pvp. It was always about different types of pvp and different types of isk earning.

What we really risk here is the true formalising of the idea that empire is a safehaven (ignoring ganks) as it now gives carte blanche for people to simply avoid pvp if they don't fancy it and yes it's bad enough already (to the point where it's pathetic).

Whilst I acknowledge there were a lot of people using the war mechanics to try and beat up younger corps, before this became prevalent the war mechanic was a well used tool for people with grudges and for professional mercenary organisations. With no real solution or mechanic to replace what we have now the system truly becomes broken and today's announcement simply gives the broken mechanic a seal of approval.

This mechanic has been broken for longer than Capital Ships, longer than Factional Warfare's issues and longer than engine trails. Ok maybe that last one is a fib but it does show that the war dec system has needed reinforcing for a good 4-5 years and then some.

CCP should not endorse a paradigm shift from their original plans to ensure that "You should not be safe anywhere in EvE". This change is as close to that as they get and that to me is an ill-considered move.

With all the hoohah recently and with Hilmar's heartfelt letter to the community I would hope that someone somewhere may actually rethink this decision and ask themselves what benefit it offers. Either that or make a decision on how they want wars to work and implement it.

CCP spent almost 2 years equivocating about bookmarks before finally deciding to do something about it and suddenly the eureka moment of warp to 0 occured. We need similar focus on fixing this mechanic not another 2 years of flogging dead horse idea threads and lot's of arguments over why CCP made hi sec pos's quasi-unkillable.
pmota
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2011-10-11 22:40:15 UTC
Alex Tremayne wrote:
pmota wrote:
If you are war dec'd and you don't feel ok being in a war dec'd alliance, why would moving to another corp/alliance be considered a exploit in the first place... ?
I applaud CCP for finaly allowing the obvious. For those wannabee pseudo-pvp'ers who are crying about this change, come to 0.0 if you want to fight. Fighting is not ganking a hauler...



Oh good grief, not everything in EVE is about 0.0 and not everyone uses the war-dec mechanic for cheap indy kills.

Also: as a member of a 0.0 PvP alliance, are you *really* advocating that PvP be *consensual* even if it is in empire space?


Mate, I agree not everything in Eve is 0.0 and I don't know how you can read I advocate anything consensual regarding PvP (unless for my poor English)..
It is exactly because not everything in Eve is 0.0 that I agree that a player that wants to play it safe should have a way of doing so, in hi sec space. That's the whole reason for hi sec to exist imho.
Shade Millith
xHELLonEARTHx
Simple Farmers
#57 - 2011-10-11 22:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Shade Millith
So empire is now safe from Wardec's then?

There had damn well better be a massive overhaul of WD mechanics after this. I don't even live in empire and this upsets me. This is not supposed to be a safe game, and WD's was one of the things that prevented Empire being 'happy carebear land'.

Stop this slope of making empire the land of protected. It's getting worse and worse.

Also is this going to effect leaving and rejoining wardec corps to 'gank then leave'? Or are you going to leave THOSE restrictions in place, and **** it over completely?

pmota wrote:
It is exactly because not everything in Eve is 0.0 that I agree that a player that wants to play it safe should have a way of doing so, in hi sec space. That's the whole reason for hi sec to exist imho.


Highsec is SAFER, not SAFE.
Lady Go Diveher
Doomheim
#58 - 2011-10-11 22:46:00 UTC
Beyond stupid. I haven't the words. Can we hear from a dev on this? DO YOU EVEN REALISE WHAT THIS MEANS?

* Every POS in highsec is now immune. Hooray for that. Shall I go to lowsec and resea... NO! Not when I have an immune highsec POS!
* Every corp can avoid all wars, with a hugely disproportionate cost of even TRYING to chase that war
* You have just made PVP opt in ... OPT IN(!!!!!!!!) in a game that is meant to be a ******* sandbox.

The only people you can now declare war on, are people who don't know how to protect themselves, or can't afford to setup alliances.

Well done CCP, you've protected carebears so they can grind in peace, whilst ensuring every ACTUAL highsec wardec is against noobs.

HOW
*******
STUPID
Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#59 - 2011-10-11 22:52:06 UTC
Man... talk about two steps forward (supers) and one step back (wardecs)...

So why even have the wardec mechanic at all if there's a fairy land region in eve. Nobody cares about wardecs in null or lowsec really... they just go to war. War decs were DESIGNED for empire... and now a war dec is a 24 hour inconvenience?

Whatever. What?

Signatures should be used responsibly...

sukmanobov
Apollyllon
#60 - 2011-10-11 22:53:00 UTC  |  Edited by: sukmanobov
pmota wrote:
Alex Tremayne wrote:
pmota wrote:
If you are war dec'd and you don't feel ok being in a war dec'd alliance, why would moving to another corp/alliance be considered a exploit in the first place... ?
I applaud CCP for finaly allowing the obvious. For those wannabee pseudo-pvp'ers who are crying about this change, come to 0.0 if you want to fight. Fighting is not ganking a hauler...



Oh good grief, not everything in EVE is about 0.0 and not everyone uses the war-dec mechanic for cheap indy kills.

Also: as a member of a 0.0 PvP alliance, are you *really* advocating that PvP be *consensual* even if it is in empire space?


Mate, I agree not everything in Eve is 0.0 and I don't know how you can read I advocate anything consensual regarding PvP (unless for my poor English)..
It is exactly because not everything in Eve is 0.0 that I agree that a player that wants to play it safe should have a way of doing so, in hi sec space. That's the whole reason for hi sec to exist imho.



Its Funny the cry's from 0.0 alliances doing the "come to 0.0"
Tell you what i challenge to look at Battleclinic and see my stats on kills you'll see that BS is my highest kills after PODS. I have 0 intrest in haulers because they won't fight back.

Everytime a 0.0 alliance fight back with us its ALWAYS in stupidly large blobs because you can fight with even numbers. I sure even people that we hard wars with i.e. moar tears would agree with my statment! 0.0 players suck at 1v1 oh wait i should calculator because im sure the think 1v1 = 5v1 or 100v20. Hide behined you CCP sheild we'll still be alive and decing you all.