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New dev blog: Ship Balancing: Mining Barges

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Mozno Nelson
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#181 - 2012-08-04 12:04:00 UTC
Just a quick question, do you still need Industry V to learn Mining Barges?

As an aspiring Miner those 5 days for a useless skill (at least for me at this point) are a pain in the... you know what :)
Carola Kessler
Lost Sisters Of New Eden
#182 - 2012-08-04 12:25:51 UTC
Mozno Nelson wrote:
Just a quick question, do you still need Industry V to learn Mining Barges?

As an aspiring Miner those 5 days for a useless skill (at least for me at this point) are a pain in the... you know what :)



Does it matter? Really? Doesn't the Change show you how much CCP is liking the Miners......'Not' !

Doesn't it allready show yours in whose favor the changes have been taken back to the Level as they are yet after bulks of Gankers screamed out to CCP 'Foul...foul!' after the first changes hit Sisi?

To be absolute honest, for me it slowly shows only thing, CCP is hardly working on it to get mining beeing the really worsest job within Eve and to make the barrel full, they again showed their favoritismn towards gankers and such so Miners are again slapped straigth in their face.

So why even bother anymore.....just learn for something more fun and don't start to break your brain about the prerequisites needed for a Mining Barke / Exhumer...soon we're getting to a point CCP is going to render the ships needed straigth out of the NPC's Agents butts and no industrial players will be needed again so the PvPlers and others can happyly shooting each other without even to fear they will run out of supply. *end of rant*

sincerly

Carola Kessler Evil
Mozno Nelson
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#183 - 2012-08-04 13:03:50 UTC
Thank you very much for your whine, but that was not an answer ;)

If you don´t like something in a game, switch to another professsion that suits you more, i welcome the changes. Just play what you like doing.

Back to my question does anyone knows if you need Industry V for the Minng Barges skill?

Please do not answer to a simple question with "I do not know, but this patch sucks anyway!" :/
Carola Kessler
Lost Sisters Of New Eden
#184 - 2012-08-04 13:08:29 UTC
Mozno Nelson wrote:
Thank you very much for your whine, but that was not an answer ;)

If you don´t like something in a game, switch to another professsion that suits you more, i welcome the changes. Just play what you like doing.

Back to my question does anyone knows if you need Industry V for the Minng Barges skill?

Please do not answer to a simple question with "I do not know, but this patch sucks anyway!" :/




Allrigth, to answer your question, checked back on Sisi...YES it still requires Industry on level 5 to be able to fly a Mining Barge.

Sincerly

Carola Kessler Smile
Mozno Nelson
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#185 - 2012-08-04 13:16:16 UTC
Thank you very much :)
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#186 - 2012-08-04 13:17:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Sable Moran
Didn't see this issue (from here) addressed in the blog or dev posts in this thread yet :

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Hey folks, thanks for the feedback, here are some answers for you.

  • WILL THE NEW ORE BAY ON MINING BARGES SHOW UP ON SCAN OR DROP ORE WHEN THE SHIP IS DESTROYED? That question is still being investigated and will be tackled when we get to the actual mining barge balancing.



So after this patch will I be Twisted or Cry?

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suun Leeh
Perkone
Caldari State
#187 - 2012-08-04 13:22:04 UTC
"they are counting a set of crystals already loaded in the strips.
also crystals are 15m3 and 25m3 for t1 and t2 respectively."



So the size of the mining crystals are now different ? Cause currently on Tranq they are 30m3 and 50 m3]
suun Leeh
Perkone
Caldari State
#188 - 2012-08-04 13:23:19 UTC
suun Leeh wrote:
"they are counting a set of crystals already loaded in the strips.
also crystals are 15m3 and 25m3 for t1 and t2 respectively."



So the size of the mining crystals are now different ? Cause currently on Tranq they are 30m3 and 50 m3]


Also the dev blog says 4 spare sets not 3 spare and one loaded in strip miners
Dave stark
#189 - 2012-08-04 14:04:14 UTC
suun Leeh wrote:
"they are counting a set of crystals already loaded in the strips.
also crystals are 15m3 and 25m3 for t1 and t2 respectively."



So the size of the mining crystals are now different ? Cause currently on Tranq they are 30m3 and 50 m3]


on sisi they're 15 and 25, have been for about a week, give or take.
Danny Centauri
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#190 - 2012-08-04 14:15:04 UTC
As someone with 10 indy alts I approve of these changes, it eventually puts risk reward in balance for mining.

The hulk is now only a viable option if you are in a mining fleet, including scouts in surrounding systems to watch for ganking fleets. Forcing collaboration is good!

The mackinaw is going to be my choice for ICE mining fleets as I can go AFK for 40 mins without any worries. Also it is more resiliant should a couple of dessies come along and take pot shots.

The skiff will be my choice for fleets should anything like Hulkageddon occur in the future making it an expensive task to destroy my mining fleet.

See this all makes a lot of sense to me for mining in highsec, my crystals are in my orca anyway. I don't see what all the whining is about, in null and wspace its probably better to use something with more HP anyway or you are going to have scouts in neibouring systems so you can use an orca on grid with hulks.

Great changes all in all.

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Ruareve
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#191 - 2012-08-04 14:43:57 UTC
Danny Centauri wrote:
As someone with 10 indy alts I approve of these changes, it eventually puts risk reward in balance for mining.

The hulk is now only a viable option if you are in a mining fleet, including scouts in surrounding systems to watch for ganking fleets. Forcing collaboration is good!

The mackinaw is going to be my choice for ICE mining fleets as I can go AFK for 40 mins without any worries. Also it is more resiliant should a couple of dessies come along and take pot shots.

The skiff will be my choice for fleets should anything like Hulkageddon occur in the future making it an expensive task to destroy my mining fleet.

See this all makes a lot of sense to me for mining in highsec, my crystals are in my orca anyway. I don't see what all the whining is about, in null and wspace its probably better to use something with more HP anyway or you are going to have scouts in neibouring systems so you can use an orca on grid with hulks.

Great changes all in all.



The problem is the Hulk with low EHP won't be a viable choice for high sec fleets. To survive in high sec the Hulk will need to have substantial EHP to make the thought of ganking not worth the required loss of isk. Sure it might be great for null space or WH where the defending fleet can intercept attackers before they do damage, but in high sec the only survival option for a hulk will be to try and run. How does that make sense?

Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/
CRNA
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#192 - 2012-08-04 14:44:57 UTC
As someone who has a fleet of maxed out hulks and mackiaws (all implants) and someone with a maxed out Rorqural pilot, (did we forget T2 links) - I can tell you the number of m3 of ore and cubes of ice is wrong.

A completely skilled, maxed out mackinaw pilot produces 90 blocks per hour, and a hulk pilot maxed 202k m3 per hour. It scares me that if rolled out as planned, this is going to reduce yields and is being called an improvement.

One thing that maybe I missed is that the blog mentioned fitting rigs to increase yield, can anyone speak to this?
Beidorion eldwardan
Tactically Armed Vanguard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#193 - 2012-08-04 14:52:12 UTC
as always.... CCP never leaves a chance to fail at improving aspects of the game for all sides

i salute you CCP i cant wait to see just how badly you'll screw up on the pos nerf, because i have long since stopped hoping that you'd improve things

you say you play the game, but really...... running the toturial isnt playing
Dave stark
#194 - 2012-08-04 14:53:26 UTC
CRNA wrote:
As someone who has a fleet of maxed out hulks and mackiaws (all implants) and someone with a maxed out Rorqural pilot, (did we forget T2 links) - I can tell you the number of m3 of ore and cubes of ice is wrong.

A completely skilled, maxed out mackinaw pilot produces 90 blocks per hour, and a hulk pilot maxed 202k m3 per hour. It scares me that if rolled out as planned, this is going to reduce yields and is being called an improvement.

One thing that maybe I missed is that the blog mentioned fitting rigs to increase yield, can anyone speak to this?


the only way i managed to get 73 blocks from a hulk was with orca bonuses, not rorq bonuses, and no implant, 2x mlus, rig, and t2 harvesters, with ice harvesting V

unless this is what ccp was using, it reeks of potential nerf.
CRNA
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#195 - 2012-08-04 15:07:34 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
CRNA wrote:
As someone who has a fleet of maxed out hulks and mackiaws (all implants) and someone with a maxed out Rorqural pilot, (did we forget T2 links) - I can tell you the number of m3 of ore and cubes of ice is wrong.

A completely skilled, maxed out mackinaw pilot produces 90 blocks per hour, and a hulk pilot maxed 202k m3 per hour. It scares me that if rolled out as planned, this is going to reduce yields and is being called an improvement.

One thing that maybe I missed is that the blog mentioned fitting rigs to increase yield, can anyone speak to this?


the only way i managed to get 73 blocks from a hulk was with orca bonuses, not rorq bonuses, and no implant, 2x mlus, rig, and t2 harvesters, with ice harvesting V

unless this is what ccp was using, it reeks of potential nerf.



I think you mean mackinaw, just for the sake of clarity, my numbers were ore for hulk, ice for mackinaw.

I'm also a bit puzzled by these 'yield rigs' -is this something that I just missed, because Im not aware of anything like that in game, and Im hyper-aware of mining stuff.

I'm guessing when they ran their numbers they forgot T2 mining links in the rorq. I'm just concerned this is actually going to decrease yield, can anyone from CCP confirm? I can post exact numbers for cycle time and yield per cycle (and login toons) if that would help
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
#196 - 2012-08-04 15:07:53 UTC
Ruareve wrote:
Danny Centauri wrote:
As someone with 10 indy alts I approve of these changes, it eventually puts risk reward in balance for mining.

The hulk is now only a viable option if you are in a mining fleet, including scouts in surrounding systems to watch for ganking fleets. Forcing collaboration is good!

The mackinaw is going to be my choice for ICE mining fleets as I can go AFK for 40 mins without any worries. Also it is more resiliant should a couple of dessies come along and take pot shots.

The skiff will be my choice for fleets should anything like Hulkageddon occur in the future making it an expensive task to destroy my mining fleet.

See this all makes a lot of sense to me for mining in highsec, my crystals are in my orca anyway. I don't see what all the whining is about, in null and wspace its probably better to use something with more HP anyway or you are going to have scouts in neibouring systems so you can use an orca on grid with hulks.

Great changes all in all.



The problem is the Hulk with low EHP won't be a viable choice for high sec fleets. To survive in high sec the Hulk will need to have substantial EHP to make the thought of ganking not worth the required loss of isk. Sure it might be great for null space or WH where the defending fleet can intercept attackers before they do damage, but in high sec the only survival option for a hulk will be to try and run. How does that make sense?


Hulk already dies if someone sneezes at it, and yet plenty of people still fly them. In fact most people still seem to fly them untanked, and just watch local for the known gankers in area, with the attitude of "oh well if it happens it happens" towards being ganked.

Just because Hulk will still die if someone sneezes at it wont make people stop flying them, the only real usage case I see Hulk losing out on is the solo miner/small non-orca fleets, where mack suddenly looks awesome with all that ore bay for little yield compromise.
Goods Mover
Fusion Tech
#197 - 2012-08-04 15:09:28 UTC
Madam Isk wrote:
Will existing hulks get their rig's "refunded"? I'm sure I'm not the only one that invested in T2 cargo rigs for my hulk that are now worthless so I'm hoping they will be de-equipped so I can sell or re-purpose them.


I too want to know this.
Dave stark
#198 - 2012-08-04 15:11:54 UTC
CRNA wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
CRNA wrote:
As someone who has a fleet of maxed out hulks and mackiaws (all implants) and someone with a maxed out Rorqural pilot, (did we forget T2 links) - I can tell you the number of m3 of ore and cubes of ice is wrong.

A completely skilled, maxed out mackinaw pilot produces 90 blocks per hour, and a hulk pilot maxed 202k m3 per hour. It scares me that if rolled out as planned, this is going to reduce yields and is being called an improvement.

One thing that maybe I missed is that the blog mentioned fitting rigs to increase yield, can anyone speak to this?


the only way i managed to get 73 blocks from a hulk was with orca bonuses, not rorq bonuses, and no implant, 2x mlus, rig, and t2 harvesters, with ice harvesting V

unless this is what ccp was using, it reeks of potential nerf.



I think you mean mackinaw, just for the sake of clarity, my numbers were ore for hulk, ice for mackinaw.

I'm also a bit puzzled by these 'yield rigs' -is this something that I just missed, because Im not aware of anything like that in game, and Im hyper-aware of mining stuff.

I'm guessing when they ran their numbers they forgot T2 mining links in the rorq. I'm just concerned this is actually going to decrease yield, can anyone from CCP confirm? I can post exact numbers for cycle time and yield per cycle (and login toons) if that would help


no, i mean the post patch hulk. it will do 73 blocks of ice with the set up i listed, other people are getting the same numbers as me.

the rigs are new with the patch.
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
#199 - 2012-08-04 15:18:12 UTC
Goods Mover wrote:
Madam Isk wrote:
Will existing hulks get their rig's "refunded"? I'm sure I'm not the only one that invested in T2 cargo rigs for my hulk that are now worthless so I'm hoping they will be de-equipped so I can sell or re-purpose them.


I too want to know this.


I don't see anything that says calibration/rig slots are being changed, so no, you wont get any rigs refunded because your ship is still perfectly capable of fitting said rigs. The only time CCP would do something like that is if they were say reducing the calibration amount and your rig loadout wouldn't be possible with the new stat, just because something is no longer optimal because of changes made isn't their problem, your response is just going to be "HTFU and move on".
Vanessa Vansen
Vandeo
#200 - 2012-08-04 15:21:22 UTC
Carola Kessler wrote:
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
[quote=Sofia Wolf]

And Miner B isn't really solo. His Alliance has a fleet going at all times, with boosts coming from an off-grid Rorqual that, for reasons of safety in 0.0 space, is never going to visit the belt to drop off crystals for anybody.




Regarding your Rorqual Comment, this will change too, since in the CSM minutes has been stated at page 133 Offgrid boosts will get removed, so i'm pretty sure will Rorqual Offgrid boost getting affected by this removal in the Future too, meants the Rorqal will have to be in the belt or somewhere on the Gridd in INDUCORE Mode to give maximum Boost.......Lets see how this will went if this change hits TQ as well. Evil

Sincerly

Carola Kessler Evil


so let's hope for an anchorable shield bubble