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New dev blog: Ship Balancing: Mining Barges

First post
Author
Echo Mande
#201 - 2012-08-04 15:40:05 UTC
suun Leeh wrote:
"they are counting a set of crystals already loaded in the strips.
also crystals are 15m3 and 25m3 for t1 and t2 respectively."

So the size of the mining crystals are now different ? Cause currently on Tranq they are 30m3 and 50 m3]


Mining crystal size is getting cut in half. Reread the 'Cargo' section of the devblog.
Goods Mover
Fusion Tech
#202 - 2012-08-04 15:47:21 UTC
TheLostPenguin wrote:
Goods Mover wrote:
Madam Isk wrote:
Will existing hulks get their rig's "refunded"? I'm sure I'm not the only one that invested in T2 cargo rigs for my hulk that are now worthless so I'm hoping they will be de-equipped so I can sell or re-purpose them.


I too want to know this.


I don't see anything that says calibration/rig slots are being changed, so no, you wont get any rigs refunded because your ship is still perfectly capable of fitting said rigs. The only time CCP would do something like that is if they were say reducing the calibration amount and your rig loadout wouldn't be possible with the new stat, just because something is no longer optimal because of changes made isn't their problem, your response is just going to be "HTFU and move on".


This is true, they are still able to fit said rigs..however, since I put the rigs on specifically because they didn't have an ore bay and needed more space, and now they are changing the roles and thus the rigs needed-I now need to fit type specific mining rigs to get max yield-I think that the rigs should be removed in the patch process for me to put back on if those are the ones I want.
CRNA
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#203 - 2012-08-04 16:03:41 UTC
Can we get a CCP comment about on-grid/off grid boosting as well.

You simply cannot put a rorq into siege mode in a belt with the current setup - if this is done, will be the biggest nerf for 0.0 miners ever seen. If they did do this, you'd have to completely change the cycle time, and add boosts to tank - like a dread, to have it make any type of sense. Maybe just change the boosting to the same way an orca works - and only need the industrial core for compression at the pos (this is the best option if you make the change, IMHO)

Also while we're fixing mining stuff - let's increase the rate of which you can compress ice to make it somewhat closer to that of ore (it currently takes 100x ish as long), and make it possible to compress from the rorq's ice/ore hold - less clicking FTW
Lirinas
B.C.C.O.F Investments
#204 - 2012-08-04 16:15:49 UTC
I see no reason why they'd refund rigs, nor would I expect it. However, I would like to see rigs removed from existing barges. I know at least one of my old Hulks was rigged with T2 rigs for extra cargospace, for when capacity was more important than output. Obviously the use of those rigs would be severely reduced to the point that other, newer rigs would be much more useful.
Ash811
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2012-08-04 16:21:37 UTC
I just want to say that I really like these changes, giving each mining barge/exhumer a designated "role" now, I just want to point out the problem I see with the drone bays.

If the retriever/mack are supposed to be the soloer's barge, then shouldn't they be the ones with the 50m3 drone bay? Giving them the ability to mine with their drones, but also defend themselves from the rats as well.

Whereas the hulk/covetor being the fleet miners, should have to choose whether they use the bay for mining or for defense, since they're supposed to need support anyways.

Just curious, thanks!
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#206 - 2012-08-04 16:26:14 UTC
CRNA wrote:
Can we get a CCP comment about on-grid/off grid boosting as well.

You simply cannot put a rorq into siege mode in a belt with the current setup - if this is done, will be the biggest nerf for 0.0 miners ever seen. If they did do this, you'd have to completely change the cycle time, and add boosts to tank - like a dread, to have it make any type of sense.

Dread like bonuses wouldn't do anything.
A 3bn ISK ship with a 1bn ISK implant in a belt that cannot move for minutes lives on borrowed time the moment you press the button.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#207 - 2012-08-04 16:59:52 UTC
is there going to be a tech II version of the mining frig?

can it be a gas harvesting specialist?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Jagoff Haverford
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#208 - 2012-08-04 17:01:05 UTC
I've been so focused upon mining crystals and cargo size that I more or less ignored the EHP numbers. The dev blog already tells me what the EHP values are going to be. Does anyone have comparable numbers for what they are now?
Mal Nina
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#209 - 2012-08-04 17:03:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Mal Nina
on grid boosting... sorry if it happens my orca, rorq and I will never be on grid in a WH (they sure as hell aren't now), to easy to get a first hit scan with combats and never see them due to not hitting the dscan button fast enough. (you know that pause as you move ore around) Which of course means head to hisec and get that other clone up ... the one without the 1 bil implant.

as for fixing things... fix my rorq compression. having 5 windows open to do compression is crazy... memorizing compression amounts so you get a full run stupid. and then to top it off if the timer on a run is less than a minute that compression line shows as empty which can result in four empty lines to select from only one of which is really empty. By the time you find that one I have had all three lines finish. give me one window, like PI. the ore bay is input, the cargo bay is ouput and I have four lines that I can drop a BPO into to that will run til the input ore runs out or I click on them to stop. (if you want I will draw out the interface design and send it to you)KISS.

Make ore bays work for gas, ice and minerals. THen give us a gas strip harvestor and some gas MLUs and maybe a gas rig. nothing like the soul sucking C540 cloud to make you want something that gives you more than 20 units of material each minute with boosts.

As for the new changes. I by an large like them even if there are a few warts. Granted you just made it harder for me to kill all those tresspassers on my ore! P
Ruareve
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#210 - 2012-08-04 17:28:34 UTC
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
I've been so focused upon mining crystals and cargo size that I more or less ignored the EHP numbers. The dev blog already tells me what the EHP values are going to be. Does anyone have comparable numbers for what they are now?


[Statistics - All five]

Effective HP: 9,145 (Eve: 7,608)
Tank Ability: 21.90 DPS
Shield Resists - EM: 37.50%, Ex: 65.00%, Ki: 62.50%, Th: 50.00%
Armor Resists - EM: 60.00%, Ex: 10.00%, Ki: 25.00%, Th: 35.00%

That's using skills at lvl 5 and omni damage. So a nerf to the EHP, a nerf to sig size, a boost to anyone wanting to gank a Hulk.

Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/

suun Leeh
Perkone
Caldari State
#211 - 2012-08-04 17:29:26 UTC
Echo Mande wrote:
suun Leeh wrote:
"they are counting a set of crystals already loaded in the strips.
also crystals are 15m3 and 25m3 for t1 and t2 respectively."

So the size of the mining crystals are now different ? Cause currently on Tranq they are 30m3 and 50 m3]


Mining crystal size is getting cut in half. Reread the 'Cargo' section of the devblog.


So they did. Thank you for pointing it out. i must have skimmed over that part :(.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#212 - 2012-08-04 19:41:17 UTC
What about drones? Last thread meant that barges would only carry 3 drones max, that wouldn't be enough to effectively deal with 0.5 rats with a unskilled miner (why should a miner skill up drones to use T2 just to defend from belt rats?)

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

niishke
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#213 - 2012-08-04 20:00:45 UTC
Quote:
. . . made for protection against suicide gank . . .
You can tell who this ridiculous EHP buff is catered towards.

Everybody say it with me. It references an 80's children's cartoon.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#214 - 2012-08-04 20:24:53 UTC
niishke wrote:
Quote:
. . . made for protection against suicide gank . . .
You can tell who this ridiculous EHP buff is catered towards.

Everybody say it with me. It references an 80's children's cartoon.


Except the carebears people complain about, are the ones who'll keep on using hulks and complaining when they pop. Blink

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#215 - 2012-08-04 20:52:26 UTC
The Atron losing its drone bay makes me a sad panda.
Esceem
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2012-08-04 21:27:29 UTC
Currently, barges have a "CCP didn't bother to delvelop race specific mining ships" written all over them.
In flashing neon lights.

It just doesn't fit into our EVE universe that the races of New Eden hate and fight each other but are all happily flying the very same range of mining ships (The same applies to the Noctis and Orca btw.).

Maybe stop for a minute and imagine the potential that such an approach could offer...

Race specific mining techniques including bonusses for local ore types
in combination with racial tanking and defence methods etc...

This would be a true enrichment for EVE.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#217 - 2012-08-04 21:29:41 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
The ore hold on the Hulk on Sisi is at 7500. Is there a planned boost or is there an error in the dev blog?


The Orca in your fleet is your main ore hold for a Hulk after the patch.. they cover that..
Rooter Danaro
Blackwater Task Forces
Goonswarm Federation
#218 - 2012-08-04 21:39:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Rooter Danaro
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
I know this is pointless, but let me make one last attempt.

We are being told that Hulks and Covetors are being limited to 5 sets of crystals because it will "force pilots to make some decisions" before undocking. In other threads, some of you have also claimed that this limitation will force fleets to be come up with a plan about who will be mining what.

The problem here is that this change will not place any such burden on most miners. Instead, it will only affect the subset of miners who operate in SOV and wormhole space.

Let's take Miner A, who lives in Amarrian Empire space. Gravitational sites rarely spawn in his systems, and he really doesn't bother looking for them. Instead, his mining is limited to just the four ores that appear in Amarrian high sec -- Veldspar, Scordite, Pyroxeres, and Kernite. He hasn't even bothered to train the ore specialization skills for any of the other ores, because he never even sees them. When he gets home from work and goes mining, he just jumps in his Hulk. It's strip miners are already loaded with 3 Veldspar crystals (from the last op). His cargo bay already contains 3 Scordite, 3 Pyroxeres, and 3 Kernite crystals (taking up 225 cubic meters), plus one spare crystal for each of the 4 ore types in his system. No forethought, no planning, and no communication with other miners is needed. His Hulk is always ready to go.

Miner B lives in SOV null sec space, in an alliance with a number of other corps. Most of his mining takes place in gravitational sites, and the miners in his alliance have worked hard to upgrade their main mining system to both reach and maintain the desired industry level. They have a large asteroid cluster spawned in the system at all times, and it contains 12 different ore types. To be able to mine in these belts (plus the regular belts that appear in his system), he has had to train 4 times longer than Miner A, since he needs to mine all 16 different ore types in the game.

When Miner B gets home from work and wants to go mining, other alliance members have already been in the belt ahead of him. There's no way of knowing what kinds of ores are still in the belt, how many units are remaining, or where those asteroids are located in relation to one another. One of the bigger mining corps in his alliance is made up of primarily Russian speakers, and communication is difficult. In any event, it's already late in Russia and most of them have gone to bed. Another group of miners comes from the German corp. They are still in the belt, but language difficulties make it hard to have a conversation about ore types. So Miner B makes some random guesses about which ore types he might find when he lands in the belt, hoping for Arkonor, Bistot, Crokite, Hemorphite, and Hedbergite. He loads in 3 of those crystals apiece, and warps to the corp bookmark for the current large grave site.

When he lands, he realizes that his guesses were awful. All of the Arkonor is gone. The Germans have 3 Hulks hitting the last remaining Bistot rock with 3 lasers apiece. There are still 2 Crokite asteroids left, but they are far away from each other. and neither one is currently in range. He can't even scan them to see how much is left in them. There is one Hemorphite rock just 15 km away, but his scanner shows that it has only 520 units left in it. All of the other Hemorphite is too far away to either mine or examine with his survey scanner. His only lucky guess was Hedbergite. There is one untouched Hedgbergite rock within range. It could keep him mining for an hour or more, but not if he nails it with all 3 lasers at the same time. But what choice does he have? The only other rocks within range are 2 nicely-sized Kernites (that he doesn't have crystals for) and a Spodumain that nobody wants to bother with.

So he slowly turns his Hulk around, spends the painfully long aligning time writing down a list of the closest asteroids, makes a few bookmarks to some asteroids that are too far away to hit with his scanner (hoping that there is still a decent amount left in them) and warps back to the station. There he reloads with a different set of crystals, and heads back out to one of his new bookmarks. When he gets there, though, he finds that the Crokite that he warped in on is largely exhausted, and that there really are no other rocks in range.

He docks, shuts down Eve, and goes to play World of Tanks.

This Hulk configuration will only have its stated effect on Miner B. Miner A will get max yield without any need to make choices. Miner B -- who has already paid a price in having to train all those different ore specialization skills and working with less efficient refineries -- is essentially forced to choose a less efficient ship.

Nothing I say here will change anything. But I thought I would make one last attempt to explain why those of us who live in these asteroid cluster sites really do need to carry more than just 13 crystals into the belts.



I support this statement in full. That is, say racial minerals and not those who are fond of talk crazy not knowing what I mean. It is a pity that so the truth is nobody wants to listen to players and developers are so in love with his ideas of time, we can very difficult for the game.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#219 - 2012-08-04 21:42:54 UTC
Jimmy Watson wrote:
Well I don't like it......I don't like it at all!!

Page 9 on a mining dev blog and NO Chribba?

Isn't anyone else getting worried......WTFIC! (where the **** is chribba)

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee I'm here, there, and over there.

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar

Dave Stark
#220 - 2012-08-04 21:44:19 UTC
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
The ore hold on the Hulk on Sisi is at 7500. Is there a planned boost or is there an error in the dev blog?


The Orca in your fleet is your main ore hold for a Hulk after the patch.. they cover that..


congratulations on totally missing the point.

sisi hulk has 7500 ore bay, the dev blog says it has more, hence asking which is correct. it has nothing to do with orcas.