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New dev blog: Ship Balancing: Mining Barges

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Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2012-08-03 21:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Dave stark wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:
CCP

And how about the material cost to build the minning barges, any change!?!??!?

THey should cost almost the same to build!!!

they have changed, check out science and industry there's a thread there about it.


nice thx

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#102 - 2012-08-03 21:14:05 UTC
Geksz wrote:
So is that so easy to store a lot of people's mining crystals on orcas and rorquals?
Is it easy to use the dedicated corp hangars with containers?
Do any of the miners want to put their crystals on someone elses orcas every time they go mining in 0.0?
If one wants to mine all ore types in 0.0 how much space will it take to bring all the required crystals for all the Hulks in the fleet?

Just asking...

With the reduced cargo hold one can't even bring his crystals with their Hulk out and put it in a can to store...


warp in covops transport with can full of crystals, eject into space, anchor, swarm barges around it.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#103 - 2012-08-03 21:14:39 UTC
Tric Starless wrote:
Is this a typo? : "Skiff and Retriever are getting hit points comparable to a battleship"

Because the EHP chart doesn't match up... Think you meant Skiff and Procurer?


that EHP table is before any modules are fit.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#104 - 2012-08-03 21:18:07 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Jake Rivers wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Happy Mining Day :3

We alleviated this slightly by cutting the volume of mining crystals in half, but it is now something that miners have to plan for before they go mining.


Plan to redock numerous times over a mining session.

Not exactly happy mining.

How often do you change crystals?

I mined for 3 hours last night, 3 accounts, 2 hulks and an orca. Had 3 T2 crystals pop, and swapped one hulk to a different ore once. Everything could have been easily stored in the new hulks (I usually use the orca, so on the hulks I can just do a select all, drag ore to orca. Having crystals in the hulk too makes that harder. But now with the crystals segregated from the ore, Ill be keeping the crystals in the hulks).

For longer sessions: whatever your do to move your ore out can bring new crystals in. Its just not that big a deal.

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EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#105 - 2012-08-03 21:18:08 UTC
Denidil wrote:
Tric Starless wrote:
Is this a typo? : "Skiff and Retriever are getting hit points comparable to a battleship"

Because the EHP chart doesn't match up... Think you meant Skiff and Procurer?


that EHP table is before any modules are fit.

procurer is the t1 skiff, he is correct
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#106 - 2012-08-03 21:23:13 UTC
MezriDax wrote:
Glad I got rid of my Mackinaws last week :) I should have offloaded the Skiff as well *sigh* btw, great job screwing over miners.... again.


do you work hard to be that dumb?

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Dave Stark
#107 - 2012-08-03 21:25:09 UTC
Denidil wrote:
MezriDax wrote:
Glad I got rid of my Mackinaws last week :) I should have offloaded the Skiff as well *sigh* btw, great job screwing over miners.... again.


do you work hard to be that dumb?


you're such an angry person.
Sigras
Conglomo
#108 - 2012-08-03 21:27:06 UTC
somehow i feel that you guys are all forgetting that they made a ship SPECIALIZED in autonomy called the mackinaw. If you want to be able to carry more crystals and not rely on anyone else, perhaps you should consider the ship specialized in that role.

Nobody ever suggests that you use a guardian as a DPS ship because thats not what its for, why do you want to make the hulk an autonomous mining barge?
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#109 - 2012-08-03 21:27:17 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Tric Starless wrote:
Is this a typo? : "Skiff and Retriever are getting hit points comparable to a battleship"

Because the EHP chart doesn't match up... Think you meant Skiff and Procurer?


that EHP table is before any modules are fit.

procurer is the t1 skiff, he is correct


oh lol he's right, i misread what he was pointing out..

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#110 - 2012-08-03 21:28:19 UTC
Sigras wrote:
somehow i feel that you guys are all forgetting that they made a ship SPECIALIZED in autonomy called the mackinaw. If you want to be able to carry more crystals and not rely on anyone else, perhaps you should consider the ship specialized in that role.

Nobody ever suggests that you use a guardian as a DPS ship because thats not what its for, why do you want to make the hulk an autonomous mining barge?


yup.. i can fit 3 crystals of 4 types in my mackinaw (enough for highsec) and suck roids for ages

plus the skiff and mackinaw both mine more ore for less crystal damage.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#111 - 2012-08-03 21:33:13 UTC
Geksz wrote:
So is that so easy to store a lot of people's mining crystals on orcas and rorquals?
Is it easy to use the dedicated corp hangars with containers?
Do any of the miners want to put their crystals on someone elses orcas every time they go mining in 0.0?
If one wants to mine all ore types in 0.0 how much space will it take to bring all the required crystals for all the Hulks in the fleet?

Just asking...

With the reduced cargo hold one can't even bring his crystals with their Hulk out and put it in a can to store...

Ah, thats the issue. Let me explain more fully:

You are a single account miner and get invited to a mining op 7 jumps from home base.

"What crystals do I bring?" You ask.
"We will be mining everything, so bring them all"

But you cannot, because the hulk will not hold them all.

So CCP: Thats why the Hulk needs more cargo, not to hold crystals during mining, but to get all my crystals from my base many many jumps away to the mining site in the first place.

One thing that helps though: use cargo expanders for the trip, refit for mining when you get there, and use medium containers.

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Frozen fanfiction
Dave Stark
#112 - 2012-08-03 21:33:35 UTC
Sigras wrote:
somehow i feel that you guys are all forgetting that they made a ship SPECIALIZED in autonomy called the mackinaw. If you want to be able to carry more crystals and not rely on anyone else, perhaps you should consider the ship specialized in that role.

Nobody ever suggests that you use a guardian as a DPS ship because thats not what its for, why do you want to make the hulk an autonomous mining barge?


we don't gain anything from this change, we simply have to do more boring stuff (let's face it mining has never been accused of causing an adrenaline rush) at an inconvenience to us for no reward.

it's not like being able to carry all the crystals you want was a game breaking balance skewing issue that needed addressing.
Bauloe
FBN 4893
#113 - 2012-08-03 21:33:50 UTC
I just feel the bonus of the Skiff and the Mach of 1% per level seem flat

THe level bonus should be something meaningful but in a direction away from Mining yield

Ie Mack - Be 5% per level for range for mining lazers and Targeting Range

Skiff be 5% signature radius reduction per level.

I am personally going to you the non Hulk ships more often. but I would like to have a substantial reward for training for the Mack and Skiff.

Dropping the 1% Yield will also make the Hulk stand out more so as the king of mining
Bauloe
FBN 4893
#114 - 2012-08-03 21:47:52 UTC
there has been the alot of speculation of the new build mats of skiffs. and retreivers. It would be intersting if CCP did something different. Only change the blue prints and change the names of the current Ships, and place them as Specialty Ships....

Then each ship built after the 8th would be the new type of ship.

Would be interesting

The old hulk would be a collectors items and hunted by gankers.
Mal Nina
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#115 - 2012-08-03 21:48:50 UTC
There is a nerf...

I used to be able to take my exhumer and configure it as desired with rigs of my choice and it still had its mercoxit bonus or its Ice bonus. Now, if I want to go after either of those materials at the same rate I must use a rig slot to put in the appropriate bonus item. That is what I call a nerf. Not a big deal perhaps, but rigs are permanant, to change them is to destroy them. I would have rather seen a T1 low or midslot module that can be swapped out on whenever I need to change what I am after. That would be great!
Belshazzar Babylon
Doomheim
#116 - 2012-08-03 21:49:04 UTC
Great changes. Really lets me choose my ship based on how I want to use it.
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2012-08-03 21:54:01 UTC
I consider it beyond any rational understanding why the "out of hand EHP" were readjusted by reducing the resistance bonus instead of removing some of the added new base HP. From those reduced resists alone, Exhumers take 17% more damage compared to current values.
Add in the new ship signature sizes (more than doubled on some), and those "group oriented" versions with their low ehp will be hard to keep alive, even in a proper fleet setup with logistics and whatnot.

Interesting choices, interesting choices.
Illectroculus Defined
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#118 - 2012-08-03 21:57:29 UTC
The hulk currently holds the record for 'most copies of itself in cargo' - since hulks are only 3750m^3 you can fit quite a few into a cargo optimized hulk. That will of course go away with this release.

So can I ask what happens to those people with rigs on these ships, do we just make a petition if we want the inappropriate rigs removed, or will it happen automagically. I ask, because I have a hulk with Ye Olde School Large Rigs on it, and since I never fly it any more I kind of apprectiate its 'collectors item' status.
Madner Kami
Durendal Ascending
#119 - 2012-08-03 22:08:18 UTC
The blog implies it, but I really want the answer spelled out:

You guys thought about redirecting the yield to the ore hold by default, instead of the cargohold, right?
Fade Toblack
Per.ly
The 20 Minuters
#120 - 2012-08-03 22:09:21 UTC
MezriDax wrote:
Glad I got rid of my Mackinaws last week :) I should have offloaded the Skiff as well *sigh* btw, great job screwing over miners.... again.


Pity you sold the Mackinaws. I can see an increase in demand coming for Mackinaws and Skiffs by the players that actually understand they're being given more choice...