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Argus Sorn

Star Frontiers

Brotherhood of Spacers

Likes received: 646

#1421 - 2011-10-11 19:48:03 UTC

Malcanis wrote:

miningtool wrote:

Tippia wrote:

Velin Dhal wrote:

That option already exists in the game. If you bring the correct fleet you can counter Super Capitals.

The problem is that “the correct fleet“ is simply N+1 SCs.

no the fleet is a nuet fleet turning hardeners off nukes the ehp of all ships

That works really well for 1-4 supercaps.

However there are now several thousand in game.

My only concern Malcanis is that this isn't enough of a nerf to deal with the impact of the super-mega-blob.

I mean it's no easy fix - they are supposed to be REALLY GOOD SHIPS. The problem is there is no attrition of the ships, no upkeep, no maintenance, no regular loss of them - and so we have a ridiculous number of them. That's why I kinda like the idea of bringing them more in line with tier 3 carriers and providing some sort of reimbursement to current owners.

A

Velin Dhal

Zeonic CG

Likes received: 74

#1422 - 2011-10-11 19:50:35 UTC

Argus Sorn wrote:

Overall, I like the changes and think they are an improvement. However I think they are a bit contrived. I like changes to make "sense" within the game fiction, and so I wonder why supers are unable to field drones? I mean, maybe whatever system that is in place to provide EWAR immunity prevents drone communications... but you get the idea....

That being said I was acutally in favor of a bigger nerf. Give them 33% of the HP they do now, make them take 33% of the minerals, reduce the drone bonus to 1 per level (33% and same as the carrier). Decide what their role is really intended to be (because I am not sure we've decided this) and buff that role - drone bonus for combat, maybe logi bonuses or command bonuses, etc.. They still get all drones and bombers but get a small drone bay so you can just fit everything you want in them

At the same time, make them dockable. The idea is to bring them more in line with a tier 3 carrier that is dockable.

Then, because super owners will be upset you just cut the value of their ship to 1/3 of what it had been - give them all two free hulls.

I wonder how much this will change because the balance of power between standard capitals and super capitals may not changing much with this change - but it will definitely be a welcome change and good to see how it plays out.

Argus

Honestly, I'm not worried about the price until the ship becomes useless. If the value of a super cap drops but 75%, it doesn't bother me much. So long as the ship can still operate in a variety of rolls. I am big in favor of your reduced drone bay idea. Or maybe a penalty to non-fighter/bomber damage to even things out a little. It would still keep them in the primary role as Capital killers but at the same time it would still be able to do other things. Not as great as it does them now but still. I think a lot of people could live with that.

Sunshine and Lollipops 27,526
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops Likes received: 27,526	#1423 - 2011-10-11 19:51:25 UTC Argus Sorn wrote: My only concern Malcanis is that this isn't enough of a nerf to deal with the impact of the super-mega-blob. Agreed, but baby steps: it might be enough of a psychological damper that the blobs get reduced. If not, a second round is called for.

Karim alRashid

Starboard.

Likes received: 208

#1424 - 2011-10-11 19:52:56 UTC

Demon Azrakel wrote:

Karim alRashid wrote:

Not at all, they can do 900+ dps, which is pretty good for a damage to a ship a class lower. This damage is
almost TWICE the damage a bonused drone BS can do to another BS.

Without, ya know, using any of the available highslots for guns / torps like you are intended to.

OK, I totally forgot Domi can fit guns ... Oops

and not blasters, of course, nobody's gonna wait your domi to crawl to blasters range.

So, not twice, but the same. Which is about right, using BS sized weapons against BS to do roughly the same damage that a BS with the same weapons can do to a BS.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos

Limas Nyx

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 0

#1425 - 2011-10-11 19:53:13 UTC | Edited by: Limas Nyx

Cpt Tunguska wrote:

This whole thing will be a hidden titan buff. I mean hitpoints of all ships are reduced by 20%, Dreads and Carriers dont get any HP changes.....but the DD remains at 3 million dmg/shot. This means its a huuuge DD buff.

The side with the biggest titan blob will still obliterate any hostile opposition. They would DD the hell out of hostile caps and supers....their guns will decimate the hostile support. The consequence is: The underdog cant use capitals and supercaps, as long as a overwhelming DD party waits for him. Buissness as usual, this patch wont change anything. Even a supercarrier will pop quckly to a couple DDs. Alliances with huge titanblobs will benefit from this patch.

I see youre buffing Dreads to be useful again, and to be a counter to supers. But as I said. As long as a dread dies in one second via DD, they wont do any dmg. Keep in mind that very high numbers of titans ....like 30+....are pretty much eve standard.

So if you want to create an useful patch:

- reduce DD damage to something logical...like 1 million.
- prohibit DD to be used vs. subs (done)
- nerf Titan XL weaponry, so they cant hit BS and BC (without nerfing dreads)
- nerf super HPs (already done)
- nerf logout (done)
- nerf logistic ships to get more dynamic subcap fights.

- make capitals to survive at least one DD with a good amount of remaining HP (look at point 1)
- dont totally defang supercarriers they already got 20% hp reduction.
- superarrier should at least be able to launch one full wing of bombers and fighters (fighter+bomber bay)
- create a dronebay which can carry a logical amount of drones: like 1 wing of heavies/sentries and couple of lights)

- Preseve Gallente as "drone race! To prohibit drones @ moros and nyx would just be another obligatory gallente nerf, coming
with ever y expansion, stop nerfing gallente !
- those dreads without drones are silly, ccp wtf do you even know your own game?
- if you really intend to prohibit drones @ SCs and reduce their Bombers/Fighters, plz dont call them Supercarrier anymore, rename it in SBU-removal-tool. They wont be a carrier anymore, since they cant carry even basic stuff.

Supercarriers just with one wing of bombers and 10 fighters would be the laughing stock of eve, they couldnt even fight off a hostile destroyer, while titans remain largely unchecked.....this will just lead into titanblob online. Good job ccp.

I also see the danger of Titanblob online. You cant nerf HPs and let the dmg amount of DDs unchecked. You need to balance DoomsDays along with the new game mechanics. Otherwise titanblobbers would greatly profit due to this new ruleset.

Gevlin

Pator Tech School

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 293

#1426 - 2011-10-11 19:53:48 UTC | Edited by: Gevlin

Executive Summary

Supercarriers

(YES) Drone bay can only hold fighters and fighter bombers.
(NO) Reduce Shield, Armor and Hull hitpoints on all Supercarriers by 20%.
(YES) Reduce drone capacity.

(YES) Remote ECM Burst: Does not affect ships that are immune to electronic warfare (Supercarriers, Titans, Triaged Carriers and Sieged Dreads)
(ADD) Not effected by Friendly EWAR, can not be Remote Repair -Like a Triage carrier but not immobile.

Fighters

Increase signature resolution to 400

Fighter Bombers

(ADD) Only Marginally more as effective vs Structures than fighters

Dreadnoughts

(No) Remove drone bay from all dreadnoughts.
(YES)Siege Module I: Boost damage bonus from 625% to 700% to compensate for loss of drones.
(No) Siege Module I: Duration time reduced to 5 minutes. Fuel cost -50%.
(Yes) Moros: Remove drone bonus.
(Yes) Moros: New bonus: 5% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret rate of fire per level.
(ADD)Remove the ability to command drones while in siege.

Titans

(Yes) Remove drone bay from all titans.
(No) Reduce Shield, Armor and Hull hitpoints by 20%.
(No) Superweapon: Cannot shoot sub-capital ships. (people should try an off grid carrier full of replacement hic and Dics, command ships etc.)
(ADD) Not effected by Friendly EWAR, can not be Remote Repair -Like a Triage carrier but not immobile.

(OH YES) After a player logs out, there is a check for player aggression every 15 minutes. If you have been aggressed, the timer extends for 15 minutes; if you have not been aggressed, you disappear as before. Note: this is only for player aggression and will not change what happens when you log off during fights against NPCs.

The Arguement
For the Deadnaught, it is not a case it needs to be buffed, it needs a role. In the dominion change the dreadnaught was suppost to switch from only POS bashing to include Sov Structure Bashing. That role was replace by the the Super Carrier which did the job of 4 dreads and didn't have the disadvantage of staying put for 10 mins.

Is it not time to look at what roles these object were meant to Be (At least to my understanding)

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

Velin Dhal

Zeonic CG

Likes received: 74

#1427 - 2011-10-11 19:53:52 UTC

Tippia wrote:

Velin Dhal wrote:

Hardly

No. Very really.
It doesn't particularly matter that you can counter them with other things — the best counter up until now has been N+1 SCs, because of their ability to go toe-to-toe with both the tanking and the damage output. This will no longer be the case.

Quote:

Here is a novel idea, introduce a new ship or rework the titan to be Super Cap killers.

It's not novel. It's the same deeply flawed “bigger is better” kind of thinking that has brought us to the necessity of this change. It shouldn't be the titan — it should be the Merlin.

Oh I think I see now. Since you can't drop one of your own, no one should. Understood.

Gevlin

Pator Tech School

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 293

#1428 - 2011-10-11 19:54:22 UTC

Part 2

Carrier
Ultimate support role for SUB cap Fleet,
Abilities-
->Provide Fighter Support,
->Turn into a Logitics Bunker by going into Triage Mode, POS repair Ship Can't be Persuaded to stop rescue till it is done (Ewar has no effect on Triage)
2ndary
->Provide A mobile storage for replacement ships
->Mobile mechanic shop.
->Squad Boostings,

Dread
->Cannon specializing in Destroying Structures
Abilities -
->Wreaking Ball vs structures or Immobile objects like Triage Carriers
->Can't be persuaded to stop its task till it is done (EWAR has no effect while in Siege)
2ndary
None

Super Carrier
Anit Capital Ship – Designed to eliminate all capitals
Abilities -
Best DPS towards Capital Ships.

2ndary
->Provide A mobile storage for replacement ships
->Mobile mechanic shop.
->Squad Boosting,

Titan
A God amongst Gods – Be able to Bequeath Judgement amongst lesser folk. Even the Demi-gods of Capitals Quake in Fear
-> Able sentence 1 ships per minute to death.
->And Provide Uncontrolled Wraith where desired.
->Lead Followers to victory do to its massive leadership and Awe (Fleet Bonuses)

Suggestions for changes I think need to happen
Carriers... Nothing Really

Dreads .. More Targets, Remove the ability or reduce the capabilities of Supper Carriers vs Sov Structure (give them Shields or Anti Bomber defences) Drones be like a Carrier, remove their ability to use them when in siege/triage mode.

Super Carrier – If it can't be effected by Ewar like a ships in Triage, then Why should accept the benefits not being in triage, I would day give it a boost to Self Reps and prevent it from accepting aid from other ships, Ie Repairs or Ewar Boosts, or Ewar Nerfs.
Remove its ability to defend its self vs Sub Cap Fleet – as that is its Achilles heel.... the swarm.
Neutralizers and DPS from several ships.

Titan -
Keep everything the same allow its dooms day to stay the same. If it can't be effected by Ewar like a ships in Triage, then Why should accept the benefits not being in triage, I would day give it a boost to Self Reps and prevent it from accepting aid from other ships, Ie Repairs or Ewar Boosts, or Ewar Nerfs.
Remove its ability to defend its self vs Sub Cap Fleet – as that is its Achilles heel.... the swarm.
Neutralizers and DPS from several ships.

I love the idea for any ship to have a reset aggression timer upon aggression.
A titan and super carrier should be something that when committed to the fight, it is committed. It should be something that takes awhile to kill or save via sub capital fleet. I like to envision the I Giant being taken down by a swarm... a slow painful death. As the fight continues the Swarm grow and grow as they look forward to claim a chunk of the kill mail.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

kralz

Zero Fun Allowed

xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku

Likes received: 29

#1429 - 2011-10-11 19:55:54 UTC

Argus Sorn wrote:

Malcanis wrote:

miningtool wrote:

Tippia wrote:

Velin Dhal wrote:

That option already exists in the game. If you bring the correct fleet you can counter Super Capitals.

The problem is that “the correct fleet“ is simply N+1 SCs.

no the fleet is a nuet fleet turning hardeners off nukes the ehp of all ships

That works really well for 1-4 supercaps.

However there are now several thousand in game.

being a serious cap ship pilot, dread, orca, rorqual, freightre Jump freighter, super carrier....maybe one day titan....oh lets not forget...normal carrier...i would kill to get my hands on a t2 carrier, stealth carrier, or a super cap killing carrier with some sort of special device that effects super caps only i dunno. it could be crazy...i dont even know what a t3 carrier would do...i'd like to see a t3 BS before i see a t3 carrier.

could make a t3 super cap killing BS too. it would be fairly simple to make a super cap killing t3 BS...u could even make a ship that can lock onto ANY cynos in the region. who awesome would that be...use a super blobs own cyno to drop ur t3 bs in on, then he lights UR fleet a cyno and u counter drop/bridge ur fleet in...amazing thought...


Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops Likes received: 27,526	#1430 - 2011-10-11 19:58:03 UTC Velin Dhal wrote: Oh I think I see now. There you go again, not knowing anything about supercaps and basic mechanics.

Demon Azrakel

Garoun Investment Bank

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 101

#1431 - 2011-10-11 19:58:42 UTC

Malcanis wrote:

Anile8er wrote:

Many years ago, before many of the people whining about supercaps being to powerful started playing this game, CCP's CEO said EVE should be about choices. Clearly with the changes CCP is presenting for supercaps they are giving players a very limited array of choices: stay logged off, join a blob alliance so you can shoot only other cap ships and sov structures.

Hypothetically they could also accept that they should risk losing their ships as well.

Agreed, for all the reward they get (facefucking any capital for the most part), they should risk losing their ships if they are unwilling or unable to support them.

Demon Azrakel

Garoun Investment Bank

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 101

#1432 - 2011-10-11 20:00:04 UTC

Misanth wrote:

Vile rat wrote:

Supercarriers were originally ships that were a modest increase over regular carriers and grotesquely priced as to be an end game ego ship. They were neat and something you pointed at "ooh look at that!" but not strategically important. Then they were improved dramatically and in doing so they became extremely popular, but also destabilizing. They evolved from being something that was a nice ego booster "Look at what we can make and field!" to something that was a critically important part of 0.0 warfare. Things reached a point where you simply could not compete on any appreciable level unless you fielded a large blob of these damn things and it is strangling the game. The rush to field supercaps fueled black market ISK dealing because people who used to show up and do things in dreads/carriers (battleships) no longer felt useful in the game and rushed to get a supercap by any means necessary.

This has been destructive to the game and the focus on supercaps being the end game content instead of one aspect of end game content had to be stopped. I believe these changes will make it so supercaps are still useful, but not the deciding factor in 0.0 combat. To be successful you must field a balanced fleet and if you can field a supercap fleet in addition to a balanced fleet you will be able to swing your super-dongs around just like you used to, but with a lot more caution.

And titans? They were garbage from the first iteration. They were a dumb idea, poorly implemented, and now they are still a dumb idea but slightly more killable. I would have loved to see some attention to titan gun tracking as well but this is a good first step towards bringing us back from a game where only the rich need apply.

Remove the damage from motherships and titans and let them keep their fighters/logistic role. You won't see them shoot structures anymore, they won't be the anti-capital anymore, and you have virtually got everything you needed.

All you guys have to do is reduce their damage output. Not do alot of side-lulul that has nothing to do with anything. HP, dronebays, etc, that's all irrelevant. Doomsday and FB's is relevant.

Doomsdays and FBs are not what lets them annihilate small gangs (or at least totally destabilize the fight so the gang has to gtfo and has no way of fighting back other than bringing a massive blob or more of their own scs)

Velin Dhal

Zeonic CG

Likes received: 74

#1433 - 2011-10-11 20:03:19 UTC

Tippia wrote:

Velin Dhal wrote:

Oh I think I see now.

There you go again, not knowing anything about supercaps and basic mechanics.

I know plenty about it. I also know that not a single one of your posts that I've seen, would have a benefit to anyone other than low SP toons. This has nothing to do about mechanics at this point as you have yet to state anything about mechanics other than the fact that your upset because of N+1 SC. So if you truly want to talk mechanics, then talk mechanics. Don't keep posting about your misguided opinion that the only logical way to counter super caps is with super caps. Its not.

Demon Azrakel

Garoun Investment Bank

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 101

#1434 - 2011-10-11 20:05:23 UTC

Cpt Tunguska wrote:

DPS on SCs remains the same despite reduction in Titan EHP. Therefore Titan Nerf.

Your point?

Karim alRashid

Starboard.

Likes received: 208

#1435 - 2011-10-11 20:09:30 UTC | Edited by: Karim alRashid

Alice Katsuko wrote:

A bit late now, but here's a chart showing probability of an orbiting Firbolg fighter to hit a stationary battleship and a battlecruiser at different signature resolutions. For the sake of simplicity, I assumed that a battleship will have a signature radius of 400m, and a battlecruiser will have a signature radius of 300m, and that a fighter would orbit at its optimal range (1500m) at the highest possible velocity (280m). I assume you have made similar charts, but this should help players understand the issue with changing fighter signature resolution to 400m.

Fighters are not equal.

For all fighters, orbiting at their optimal, with sig resolution 400, against a target with signature radius 400, the chance to hit is:

Dragonfly - 69.81%
Einherji - 1.85%
Firbolg - 8.94%
Templar - 68.37%

So, changing the signature resolution to 400 is mostly OK for Dragonfly and Templar, and not OK for Einherji and Firbolg.

Therefore:

1) change the fighters signature resolution to 400

2) increase Einherji tracking speed to 0.27 rad/s and optimal to 1500m

3) increase Firbolg tracking speed to 0.19 rad/s and optimal to 2000m

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos

Demon Azrakel

Garoun Investment Bank

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 101

#1436 - 2011-10-11 20:09:58 UTC

Forlorn Wongraven wrote:

Evil Celeste wrote:

Malcanis wrote:

Hypothetically they could also accept that they should risk losing their ships as well.

Havent you heard? They paid 20b for their ship and they pay for another account, so they deserve to be unstoppable.

SC should not be able to destroy BS fleet but they should be able to defend themselves against a fast roaming gank, at least able to get out and safe before the burning cyno Recon can land on grid. They should not be (and are not) solopawnmobiles. This change is a little bit too much, the first introduction of SC was way overpowered though, we can all agree on that for sure.

My 10 bil vindi (was actually 7 or 8) should be able to defend from a 10-man roaming frigate fleet that, sadly, can pop my drones and.

Why would I think I can go unsupported against superior numbers of ships built to tackle me and eat away at my hp till I run out of cap boosters?

I PAYED MORE !!!!1111!!!!11!!!!!

Also, same for my Moros, it should **** frigate fleets.

/saracasm

Stop feeling entitled to destroy / defeat large amounts of players at once with little risk because you paid a lot for a ship.

R0ze

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 12

#1437 - 2011-10-11 20:12:21 UTC

Tippia wrote:

It's not novel. It's the same deeply flawed “bigger is better” kind of thinking that has brought us to the necessity of this change. It shouldn't be the titan — it should be the Merlin.

It has always worked for Eve though.. when it started there were just 3 ship classes.

.. to more recent events when Motherships were introduced and it became clear that they are too powerfull to be dealt in lowsec gatecampings wolla enter-the-stage Heavy Interdictor - a ship that counters quite the massive vessel instead of altering any other mechanics or attributes of existing spacecrafts.

Titans were made to deal with the massive blobs while the remote DD (on cyno) was retarted I think the AOE was fine till the point CCP didn't come up with a way to give any mechanics (besides the GTFO of grid ) to play arround something like quad-DD. And imo that was the point when all things started to get even worse..

Instead of coming up with an utility ship or even giving a role to the SuperCarrier (that way pushing them to battlefront (if you rememmber there was such CCP blogpost ( Capital battlefield http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=696 ) why to buff the EHP of supers) to make / force (instead of some lone gankings) those appear on grid for possible titan counters (like provide some sort of dictor / POS like bubble to fully or partially shield incomming DD damage).

Now we wil have Time dilation / once again questionable quality "super"ships / people-whining .. etc etc

Demon Azrakel

Garoun Investment Bank

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 101

#1438 - 2011-10-11 20:12:44 UTC

Carabusu wrote:

xxxak wrote:

Update:

This nerf = Win Subcap battle, Kill all supers on the field.

So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, and supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in.

That means that if you have a 15 man super fleet (mid size alliance), plus 120 sub caps (mid size alliance), and if lose the subcap battle, you also just lost all your supers.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet. EVE is dead.

Other thoughts:

1) Nerfing fighters makes carriers even more crap. This was unnecessary.
2) Supercarriers should at least be able to carry 20 FB + 20 fighters
3) The removal of the drone bay is a nerf to small alliances who are more likely to use a small number of "ninja" supercarrier tactics. Now those supercarriers can get tackled and killed much more easily by even a small/medium gang of subcaps.
4) Huge alliances that can field huge fleets (super cap gang+proper sub cap fleet) will be even more powerful.
5) Supercarriers are no longer good for anything but shooting POS mods and Sov mods. LOL.

The nerf should have been as follows:
1) Fix logoffski timer
2) DD can only hit caps
3) Small EHP reduction for supercarriers

Those three fixes alone would have been enough to start.

Can some Dev explain the decision to not even let SC carry 20 fighters??

Actually, looking more at the fighter nerf.... what can they hit now? POS mods? LOL. Huge stealth carrier nerf. Care to explain this one as well?

Could not have said this better. Well put.

Typical CCP Balancing = "Grab your axes boys...we're goin' nerfin!"

This is seriously a sad thing. Trained my butt off for a LOOOOOONG time, spent billions of ISK, and now my Super Carrier will SIT in a POS doing NOTHING until there's a POS to shoot/rep ? At least before I could Rat to pass the time. Now, I can't even do that. You, CCP, should slow down a bit. Just the 3 ideas above definitely would have been enough to start.

derp, you can still carry 20 fighters.

Just not 20 fighters + 20 fighter bombers.

Next.

Tippia

Sunshine and Lollipops

Likes received: 27,526

#1439 - 2011-10-11 20:13:12 UTC

Velin Dhal wrote:

I know plenty about it.

…and yet you say that you don't, largely because you don't actually read what people write — or, if you do, you don't think about what people write and assume that they say something other than was actually said.

Kind of like that straw man you just constructed.

Quote:

I also know that not a single one of your posts that I've seen, would have a benefit to anyone other than low SP toons.

So?

Quote:

you have yet to state anything about mechanics other than the fact that your upset because of N+1 SC.

Understandably, since the whole N+1 concept is pretty much the definition of imbalance.

Quote:

Don't keep posting about your misguided opinion that the only logical way to counter super caps is with super caps.

Ok, I'm going to ask you one more time, and after that, I'm going to get pretty mean to you.

Read.
No, really, read.
When you've done that, think.
When you've done that, think.
When you've done that, think.

…I say that three times, because you really need to think things over here.

Only after that, open your mouth/hit the keyboard.

If you had done the above, you would have noticed by now that I do not have the “misguided opinion that the only logical way to counter super caps is with super caps”. That is yet another one of your straw men that comes out of you not reading, thinking about, and understanding what others write. It has already bit you hard by making you pronounce yourself as ignorant about supercaps — you should really try to avoid a repeat of that.

The problem is not that there are other counters — it's that N+1 is the best one, especially once we start to scale the confrontations. Being the cause of said scale only makes the whole thing worse, since that makes it self-generating.

Demon Azrakel

Garoun Investment Bank

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 101

#1440 - 2011-10-11 20:13:41 UTC

Unforgiven Storm wrote:

(Declaration of interests: I have no super carrier, I don't like them, I want them all dead)

So, we have this super carrier problem in 0.0 and this nerf is going to address this issue. In general I agree with it and most of the changes are good and I think they will put an end to the current problem, BUT after I read 50 pages of discussion I have to agree with some minor points of the supers owners, that need to be addressed or basically these ships will be the new dreads and will not be used anymore (and we need them out there so we can have the chance to kill them all)...

Also there is the issue that these pilots invested money and time to get into these ships so at least give them a candy in exchange for the nerf, if you nerf my tengu I would also be mad...

- The candy

allow them to dock those ships

- Minor point 1

The role of these ships goes from "I'm a GOD in the field of battle" to "I can only kill caps and reinforce SOME structures", in one nerf.
At least let them have the possibility to hit all structures, including POSes!
By doing this, we sub cap pilots will not mind, since we do not like to hit poses, let the super pilots do it, and also while they are out killing a pos they became targets for us to drop and kill and a reason for a good fight to be had. :-)

- Minor point 2

Any carrier can deal with one solo ship, 1 at least.
Super carriers should also be able to deal with 1, at least. not 2, just 1.
Minimum drone set should be allowed. -> limit the drone bay size to 200m3 and bandwith so they can only carry and field a limited number drones, like 20 small, 10 medium or 5 heavys/sentries. That is it. minimum defense, nothing more, its fair even for a super to have a way to defend it self against 1 solo ship.

- Minor point 3

If you are going to nerf the ehp of these monsters, then its logical that you change the quantities of the respective BPOs to reflect the changes. A weeker ship should need less materials to be build, having in mind the nerf, the materials to build these monsters should also be nerfed in 20%.

--

Questions about the new agression session timers and logout.

- I'm ratting in a belt alone in a system with a carrier, someone enters in the system, I logout, we warps sees my carrier still aligning for the emergency warpout, shoots me or puts a point or opens a bubble, I'm agressed in any of these 3 scenarios? will I disapear in 1 or 15 minutes?

SC docking games! nty

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