EVE General Discussion

I fixed this for you because you still speak better English as a second language than most people who grow up with it do.

So heres my proposal to this whole bunch of miner ganktank stuff:

- Stick to the original roles for Skiffs,Macks and Hulks (Mercoxite,Ice,Ore).
- Expand them to their T1 counterparts
- Reduce skillrequirements for the T1 barges i.e. mining barge V required for a Covetor is way to much
- Provide barges and exhumers with slots,CPU and PGU to fitt a propper buffertank against gankers and 0.0 NPCs

-> Miners will have the choice either to widstand the evil elementary school bully at the cost of insane high mining amounts or otherwise form a fleet and care for his dscan and still will be able to bring his Elaras Mining Laser Upgrade to suck the hell out of the veldspar roids.

Please do so.

All this crying is yummy :D

I don't know how that game changed in the last 5 years.
For sure at competitive levels it promoted better situation awareness, use of line of sight, quick response times, deep knowledge of the cooldowns (something EvE got for some mods too).
The drive to better weapons etc vs the risk of going down the ladder and not getting them was an incentive to play better but also play more conservatively (i.e. not just "play randomly for fun"). It also let to "class stacking", that is forming FOTM groups. It's similar to EvE's ever changing FOTM fleet doctrines and their counters.

Dropping stuff is not exactly what makes you play better, but what makes you play more conservatively. Fear of loss is also a main source of "carebearism". Some like the "harsh loss" heart pumping feeling, others prefer the "if I win I get better stuff, if I lose I don't".

For an EvE alike experience but with quick reactions gameplay you might check Darkfall Online (sandbox, full loot drop including all the carried money (that is, harsher than EvE), even if that game suffered because of the small developer resources.

For a middle of the road solution, Guild Wars 2 provides skillful gameplay (for most classes) and it tends to counter class stacking. Getting famous and eventually being invited to RL cash sponsored tournaments tends to encourage players to improve more than risking gear loss. But that's very unlike EvE, GW2 is more akin to e-sport, DFO is more like EvE.

your referring to mining bots there, but tbt mission and especially ratting bots are just as easy and bad, genuine players hate bots period cause their smart enough to realize botting in general is detrimental to a game and that secondly the people running them are either usually tied to the RMT trade and/or just simply to bone idle lazy to bother doing it themselves and want
everything on a platter, if I have reason to believe someone is a bot or botting I have no qualms in reporting them for it as well as ticketing them to ccp explaining what about their behavior leads me to believe they are a bot.

on the original topic mining ship progression wise before these changes goes live tends to be mining frig - Destroyer - osprey - retriever - hulk (some use macks for ice mining, smarter ones tend to use hulks cause unlike a mack a hulk can actually be tanked) so whats wrong with the above picture and whats missing? procurer no one wants or desires to use it when you can mine as well in a osprey if not better than a procurer, covetor why bother when by the time your able to get into it your at most a couple hours away from being able to jump right into a hulk? (tank and yield being the attractions for miners, add in the fact there's not a great deal of difference or wasn't between a mack and a hulk) and skiffs? they were and are only ever been worth considering when mining Mercoxit and generally only on the yield of it.

End of the day what people are forgetting is CCP is re-balancing ALL ships, and mining ships are only the beginning, interesting is going to be reactions when CCP inevitably get round to re-balancing T3's like tengu's and loki's, never mind when they start tinkering with caps upwards, so for now hold off on the outbursts and wait and see what OTHER changes are planned.

Usually on the forums you see a lot of "carebear tears" about how z miner got ganked by abc ganker in destroyers etc, since the mining ship changes went up on sisi the ganker community hasn't just cried a river, they've cried a ocean instead and missed the WHOLE POINT I'll state again...
CCP ARE RE BALANCING ALL SHIPS NOT JUST MINING SHIPS.

Herr Wilkus, I'm too lazy to log in all my accounts to give you +likes, but pretend you just got a heap of them. Not only for the OP, replies was made of win as well.

No, the problem was two folded, part CCP's and part miners fault.
* Miner fault - they used the most expensive ship in the game, untanked, and then got supermad they lost so much pixels in their "safe" space. They could've used a more reasonable alternative, but they refuse to and just flat out only want to use the ship that has the best mining yield. Mentality issue.
* CCP's fault - for not having a good step between the Hulk and the low-end mining ships. If the barges had a bit boosted yield, and the step wasn't so far to the Hulk.. this would've been alot less of an issue.

I agree with you that the price difference between a Hulk and a gankers loss was completely off, but that was not the gankers fault. Miners put themselves into this position, and you know what, they will do again in these new ships (go untanked, for max yield). This will not change unless there's a reasonably cheap alternative with very close to the same yield as the top end mining vessel. Irony is, the fact that people use endgame ships (essentially, Hulks is the capital/supercapital of mining, it's The Max yield ship), that are/should be expensive, and then feel it cost too much to lose just show they have wrong mentality to begin with. Imagine if I would ask the same for my supercapitals. Hey, I want to be able to fly them in level fours in highsec, under protection of CONCORD! It is actually what miners were requesting.

The real fix you should've done:
> Exhumers should be low- and nullsec only, like capital ships.
> Barges should have alot wider range, from a cheap, low-skill and low-yield one, to a top end one that is near Exhumers both skill-, cost and yieldwise. The gap should not be that huge.

The effect of the change you are doing will only be cosmetic, really. Gankers will still gank. Miners will still fail to fit tanks. And the rage will continue. CCP need to educate miners that losses are part of the game, if they use expensive ships: suck it up. They should and could have more tanked versions with lower yield, and then it's simply their choice to use them. And yes, I do realise that your new ships lean towards this, but you still have a "new Hulk" that everyone will be using, and will the range in yield/cost cover a wide margin? It doesn't look like it, at this point.

OP is correct. And while you are right about the cost effiency, that is not a reason to do a hasty change that doesn't cover all bases. You'll still have problems, after these changes you presented.

See, that's the problem. People who suicide gank high-sec miners are the laziest PvP'ers. Now that it is no longer so easy to gank high-sec miners, gankers find it easier to whine on the forums instead of actually learning to PvP.

How does one learn how to shoot another player besides actually shooting another player?

I've cleaned up some of the troll posts in this thread, please keep things civil, thank you.




Troll posts removed - ISD Type40.