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New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

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De Bom
Iwahira Industries
#301 - 2011-10-10 19:03:08 UTC
Sorry i dont understand. I dont have mothership and titans, but i can fly dreadnoughts and carriers.
so basically i cant say much to supercapitals and titans
I wanted to see a buff to dreadnoughts, instead i dont see that just a reduced cycle timer and half fuel consume which is quite a small buff but doesnt really make a difference because i was used that some helpful corpmate always deployed a can next to me while shooting down a pos. And i really dont care much about a can of fuel.

Dreadnoughts still are only usefull to kill statoinary targets. So please tell me where here is a balance ?

I also really dont understand why no drone bays on dreadnought, it was the only way have a chance kill a smaller ship and once run out of ammo sentry II have been quite useful. Also getting rid of a small tackler with ecm drones had a small chance to get away, but this is now all nerfed to death.

Dreadnoughts need love, not nerf.

Now fighters got a nerf which hits carrier pilots a lot. Why is is necessary to nerf carriers with fighter nerf ?
I understand that supercapitals needs a rebalance, but this hits carrier pilots hard.
I didnt know that it was necessary to nerf carriers. But i know that its necessary to buff dreadnought.

So for my humple view this looks like a fail.

Or please explain someone to me.
Aversun
Systems Federation
#302 - 2011-10-10 19:04:11 UTC
mkint wrote:
These changes are good, I guess, except they won't fix the problem of "blobbing = winning".

Unless there's a SPECIFIC counter to supers, these changes are promoting even bigger blobs. CCP's RMT friends will still own null because they will be the only people able to meet the new standards of even bigger blobs.

Blackops should be able to solo-kill supers.


convert blackops in super-cap hunter/killer?
or iterate a anti-super cap hullclass?
Leon Razor
Measure Zero
#303 - 2011-10-10 19:04:37 UTC
Nice to finally see some balance changes. I wonder how this will effect hot drops (I'm a little surprised there wasn't a slight change to cyno mechanics). I can't really comment on the impact of many of the changes since it's outside my experience, but I will say great to see the log off button nerfed. That should never have been a tactical option and always felt like a cheap trick.

One more thing I would like to see added to the list is longer self destruct timers for larger ship classes (really just capital ships). Or, if a ship has taken too much damage, disable self-destruct. Now, when capital pilots know they are dead they will just self-destruct instead of logging off. Arguably, this is better, but still feels like a cheat. Also, if you ever read about some of the wormhole conflicts: when a corp under siege didn't want to fight back and would rather give up, they would hide behind their POS shield and self-destruct all of their ships before the attacker could take down the shield (reinforcement timers make this easy). While I think destroying valuable assets to keep them from you enemy is very much in the spirit of EVE and should be supported, I think it's a bit to easy. Longer timers and / or preventing self-destruct inside a POS would prevent abuse and be more in the spirit of how EVE values the risk reward dynamic.
David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#304 - 2011-10-10 19:04:58 UTC
Jackk Hammer wrote:
you're just another goonNoob talking what you know nothing about...

stacking penalties combined with the fact that you end up with a higher tracking speed by using 3 x faction/officer tracking computers than having 3 x tracking link put on you means they are nowhere near as useful as you think.


I, too, fit my titans with Tracking Computers instead of Cap Rechargers.
Sir HappyPants
Caldari Innovations and Research
#305 - 2011-10-10 19:05:18 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:
#1: Supercaps are still perfectly fine for the role with which they were intended; Killing Other Capitals


Agreed, but that role was when people would drop caps on sub-caps (present day). Once the nerf goes live, there is no reason at all to ever drop caps in any battle outside of structure shoots. Both sides of any fight will know that a sub-cap fleet can engage and win against another sub-cap fleet AND a supercarrier fleet. Capital fleets can ONLY win against other capital fleets.

Supers are going to be POS decorations again.
Member of the #TweetFleet   @thisurlnotfound
Jackk Hammer
MinnieZ
#306 - 2011-10-10 19:06:38 UTC
David Carel wrote:
Jackk Hammer wrote:
you're just another goonNoob talking what you know nothing about...

stacking penalties combined with the fact that you end up with a higher tracking speed by using 3 x faction/officer tracking computers than having 3 x tracking link put on you means they are nowhere near as useful as you think.


I, too, fit my titans with Tracking Computers instead of Cap Rechargers.

you guys are so dumb...how do you think the PL titans that **** you are fit?
KeLLaX
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#307 - 2011-10-10 19:07:57 UTC
Here is a Suggestion CCP, Take the Super Carrier out of the Game and give the Isk back to the pilot. This is your mistake now you should either fix it. or return the isk and take the ship out of game. You have wasted your paying members time.
Dirk Tungsten
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#308 - 2011-10-10 19:08:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Tungsten
Dirk Tungsten wrote:
Ok heres the bread and the butter of things.

Thers are by all means alot of pros that will mean fleet fights could be more Ballz deep coming from the patch, but alot of crutial badly influenced cons.
The loggoff timer relooping, yes a good idea, but why introduce 20% decrease in shield/armor/structure aswell. This is giving supers/titans relatively no chance. with the aggro relooping, should keep the stats tank wise for supers/titans, but maybe balance out what currently is there. For instance Aeon should have less HP as has an isaine tank, wyvern and Nyx should tank wise be relatively unchanged. The Poor Hel should get a buff. Make it competitive.

DDs on titans should be able to hit BSs if not give them a slight tracking bonus so they are at least able to hit BSs well and have some sort of a tank lol

It seems ccp are carebearing up eve for newer players or alot of the subcap players. What they are failing to realise is that this patch will be a tradgedy for a few of those crutial points. Alot of other vets are thinking of hanging up there boots when this patch is released.

It seems heirachy has been too influenced by certain GMs CSMs that revolve around fountian region,we all know who they are. What this patch allows is certain entities that live in fountian (cough cough) to use mass blob fleets of 2000+ again and lagg out systems. There will be no counter to this after the patch. What this patch is going to allow is lagg tactics and mass 2000+ man fleets to rule eve over better organised,structured & skilled alliances. Its basically allowing a bunch of noobs with no structure in there fleet to be successful. Carebearing it down. If you want to kill a titan/super then an aggressing fleet should at least have a well thought through structure an plan to there fleet, they do not deserve and should not expect to kill any supers/titans unless that is implemented.

When alot of the narrow minded people out there eventually realise what this patch will do, the pros from this patch will be massively overlooked, as this will not balance things, its only going to be putting the weight on the other end of the scales.


Mark my words im right almost all the time =)
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#309 - 2011-10-10 19:09:42 UTC
Excellent.

Maybe from now on we'll start seing mixed fleets of caps/supers and mostly (I hope) sub caps.

I'd like to see something else than boring overviews of arty Maelstroms, 100+ super/titans landing on some POS for that exciting activity like POS bashing or alpha stuff...

Nice move, I just can't wait for hybrids changes now !!
Lan Caden
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#310 - 2011-10-10 19:09:46 UTC
1 Titan = 90,000,000,000 ISK
1 Hurricane = 50,000,000 ISK

1 Titan = 1,800 Hurricanes
1 Titan = 1 Hurricane a day for 5 years

Do I get mad when I explode to one of these behemoths? No, I think, "well, that makes sense."

The log off change is great IMO. Supers will now have to be very confident in their subcap support before they expose themselves.

Just dying once, just one mistake is enormous--like you just lost a hurricane every day for the next 5 years, and there is no more "pull the internet cord" failsafe. Titans will explode more often, or at least be used less often since the log off change.

Please don't make it so they can't explode hurricanes, it's the whole reason I save money in this game. The idea that "one day" I can murder small fleet all by myself.
Heimdallofasgard
Ministry of Furious Retribution
Fraternity.
#311 - 2011-10-10 19:10:04 UTC
KeLLaX wrote:
Here is a Suggestion CCP, Take the Super Carrier out of the Game and give the Isk back to the pilot. This is your mistake now you should either fix it. or return the isk and take the ship out of game. You have wasted your paying members time.


wow... he mad... hah

BUT YOU NERFED THE VELDNAUGHT!!!! *SADFACE*
Molyse Shakiel
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#312 - 2011-10-10 19:10:23 UTC
Hp nerf od supers is too big for shield sc and much to low for armors1.

Titans still have insane tracking, right now on sisi u can insta kill bs without any tracking modules. With them any ship

Dread after patch will still colect dust in hangars.
Pilk
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#313 - 2011-10-10 19:10:44 UTC
xxxak wrote:
So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, and supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in.

That means that if you have a 15 man super fleet (mid size alliance), plus 120 sub caps (mid size alliance), and if lose the subcap battle, you also just lost all your supers.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet.

We often enjoy comparing EVE SCs to the real-life ones. In this scenario, you're telling me that my USS Enterprise cannot do anything to stop some dude standing on the deck of a tugboat, vigorously slapping her across the bow with a piece of fresh mozzarella, from sinking her.

I think the Enterprise's captain, if faced with a similar scenario and if saddled with a bunch of planes that for some reason cannot hit the tugboat, would climb down from the tower himself in order to shoot the tugboat captain in the face. I mean, honestly, what is your goal here? If you want to reduce the number of fights that happen in EVE, this is a great way to do it. The probability of me wanting to go into a battle we might not win just dropped to zero; at least before, I might be able to work with my fellow supers and clear off the tacklers to get more people home safely. Now I'm just committing a 20B ISK bullet-sponge.

Fix the logoff timer, fine. Limit the number of drones of a given type--a little crazy, but okay. But being unable to even hit subcaps? Why am I not just flying a dread, then?

One last note: it was already a PitA that you didn't give us room to carry a full flight of both FBs and fighters, along with even a single additional light drone, in any SC but the Nyx. Now that the supposed reason for that decision is gone, we're further restricted to only carrying less than a flight-and-a-half of ONE type of drone? Before you say we can swap out at will, try it. Move 125,000 m3 out to a supercarrier in a POS and back for me. Let me know how enjoyable that is, let alone doing it for a fleet of 20 supers that are deployed in hostile territory, ten jumps from the nearest friendly station.

Then again, given these changes, I suppose there won't be hostile territory, let alone supercaps therein, pretty soon.

--P
Andrea Griffin
#314 - 2011-10-10 19:10:45 UTC
CCP Zirnitra wrote:
I AM ZULUPARK!
And I am confused. Was there a name change?

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#315 - 2011-10-10 19:10:53 UTC
Jackk Hammer wrote:
David Carel wrote:
Jackk Hammer wrote:
you're just another goonNoob talking what you know nothing about...

stacking penalties combined with the fact that you end up with a higher tracking speed by using 3 x faction/officer tracking computers than having 3 x tracking link put on you means they are nowhere near as useful as you think.


I, too, fit my titans with Tracking Computers instead of Cap Rechargers.

you guys are so dumb...how do you think the PL titans that **** you are fit?


seriously i want you to go into eft and play with serpentis tracking links and figure out why all I bothered to do was quote your post so you couldn't edit it

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
wolftin21
#316 - 2011-10-10 19:11:12 UTC
AttentionWhy in the heck Is CCP not going to boost the Black ops ships frist,as the black ops ship have been needing a boost for a very long time now,I suggest dealing with the black ops ships frist, then deal with the capitals. I know about the issues with the capital but, dont yall think the blops need the winter patch frist? if yall are wanting more pvp with the blops then boost them frist or put both the blops and the capitals patch in one.So get off yalls lazy butts stop nerfing/boosting with out hearing what the players have to say after all its the players that keeping the game and CCP alive, Am I correct? I am confindent that the pvp players of eve will argee with me. So chop chop with the blops boost and make eve even better on the blops pvp side.
Thanks

Wolftin21
mkint
#317 - 2011-10-10 19:11:40 UTC
Aversun wrote:
mkint wrote:
These changes are good, I guess, except they won't fix the problem of "blobbing = winning".

Unless there's a SPECIFIC counter to supers, these changes are promoting even bigger blobs. CCP's RMT friends will still own null because they will be the only people able to meet the new standards of even bigger blobs.

Blackops should be able to solo-kill supers.


convert blackops in super-cap hunter/killer?
or iterate a anti-super cap hullclass?


Whichever. However, I think it would be a suitable upgrade to existing blackops. They are useless in a fight right now, they are mostly just a support ship. Their tank is weak enough that it wouldn't take a lot of subcaps to kill one. Their DPS is weak enough and their expense is high enough that they wouldn't be a suitable replacement for a subcap fleet.

In other words, they would be a good counter mostly as is. A good counter promotes SMALLER fleets, not bigger.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
TommyMc88
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#318 - 2011-10-10 19:11:44 UTC
Solid changes and good to see, I've just re-started my Revelation training.

One suggestion on the SC nerf though, since they can no longer carry Sentry drones it would be nice if their FighterBombers had some way of hitting the Control Tower of a POS.

Atleast that way they serve more than 1 purpose of pos killing other than incapping mods. I think SC's should have the ability to deal direct damage to control towers. Would make the whole pos bash thing less boring. And it's not as though this change will have a major effect on gameplay.
ToXicPaIN
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#319 - 2011-10-10 19:11:51 UTC
Sir HappyPants wrote:


Supers are going to be POS decorations again.


yeah , and this is ****
Nagapito
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#320 - 2011-10-10 19:11:54 UTC
demonfurbie wrote:

the sc should be able to have 20 fighters and 20 bombers in its drone bay, seeing thats all it can use now anyway
the fighter change is a little too drastic, a triple extended shield rigged rokh thats being painted cant be hit if the changes go3
it also hurts the less used carrier.

CCP Tallest wrote:

Increase signature resolution to 400

Why you say that you need to paint a ship that already as a sig radius higher then 400? BS's have a sig radius higher then 400, so I dont understand this problem with the fighters. In my opinion, FB should have a higher sig resolution, like 1000! They are not meant to shoot sub-caps!!!

demonfurbie wrote:

less ability for the bigger ships to kill the smaller means more people in smaller ships


I like the way you realize the objective but still in denial!