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New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

First post First post First post
Author
Nova Soldier
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#181 - 2011-10-10 17:59:34 UTC
1. When are we going to test it on the Singularity Test Server?
2. Any more changes for the dreads planned such as more than 2 targhets , better sensor resolution, maybe some increase to damage?
3. Tracking nerf to Titans planned?
Mekia Buelle
Doomheim
#182 - 2011-10-10 17:59:35 UTC
Ale Tricio wrote:
Again CCP just hoping to hold onto their new pubbie players by screwing those that have spent years earning their supercaps

-3 accounts



Can i have your stuffz?!
GRIEV3R
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#183 - 2011-10-10 18:00:25 UTC
As a Nyx pilot, here are some of my thoughts:
Supercarriers are too hard to kill
-Only for subcaps. In capital/supercapital engagements they pop like balloons. When you drop that much isk into a single ship, it should be extremely difficult for subcaps to kill you. I don't feel that supercarriers need the HP nerf.

Supercarriers are too versatile
I completely agree. I think the drone bay changes are an excellent change.

Titan DD's
Again I think this is a good change.

No more drones on Dreads, but Siege module +700% damage
This is good but I don't think it's enough. Dreads need to have better tracking in Siege Mode. The changes to cycle time and fuel consumption are excellent.

Moros RoF bonus
I anticipate that this is going to cause capacitor problems for Moros. However, with the upcoming hybrid turret buff that's been hinted at, perhaps it won't be a problem.

tl;dr:
Great changes overall.
I don't think Supercarriers need less HP, if anything I think they need more.
I think the RoF bonus on the Moros is going to screw up its cap.
Evelgrivion
State War Academy
Caldari State
#184 - 2011-10-10 18:00:58 UTC
Adan Natrier wrote:
I can't possibly keep up with this threadnaught but i'll do my best to summarise;

By removing regular drones you remove too much effectiveness of supercarriers against subcaps, which means there's even less attrition of them from being used in smaller numbers, which becomes too unsafe.

So these changes probably only push super cap deployment further into the super blob domain - for mutual security. And when you have 90 SC's drop 20 fighters each at the time your fleet is trying to enter system, it doesn't matter how many replacements they have, or don't have, because about 50% of the incoming fleet will blackscreen, and the other will get slaughtered. This happened in geminate, vale and trib more than once this year.

So generally, make them more gankable. Remove their ability to fit a cloak, make them much slower to get into warp, whatever. Reduce their EHP way more.

And make them vulnerable to ewar. this is the solution to SC's speedtanking sieged dreads (you can web them, and bring a new definition to hero rifter), and significant super blobs with distributed ewar on subcaps. Fine, give them super strong sensors so they're not automatically jammed up by 150 unbonused multispectrals or 2000 ec-300's, and whatever the numbers work out to require say 50 sensor damps to be useful. But this makes them into normal ships, with normal vulnerabilities. Why isn't this the correct course?

But I don't care that much, I'll take any nerf whether I think it's heavy handed or not, I've been on the receiving end of super blobs all year.

Thanks for not reading. \o


You might be right to some degree, so here's hoping we can hold CCP on continuing to iterate on capital balance once these changes go live. However, you did leave out Time Dilation from the equation, which should, in theory, help prevent the problem of the black screen on jump in. Time will tell.
Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
#185 - 2011-10-10 18:01:19 UTC
This thread is basically Nulli Secunda and White Noise vs the rest of the game. I don't see PL complaining. CoolCoolCool

PIZZA CEO

Cyalume
What It Say's On The Tin
#186 - 2011-10-10 18:01:41 UTC
This should be interesting! With the nerf of Supers, the price will surely fall.

How will this effect the lottery prices of Darkness and Chribba?

It's an important question. Surely ticket prices will change since the prize won't be worth as much anymore.

All in all, I like most of the changes. Flying various ships is enjoyable but I still think Dread tracking needs to be a bit more.

Other than that, fair enough.
David Grogan
NerdHerd
#187 - 2011-10-10 18:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
Bettoesai wrote:
I like what you guys are trying to do here, but the changes to fighters is a bad idea. I think all the other changes should work out well.



yup ccp will make fighters useless vs a single bomb. 400 sig radius will mean a single bomb with vaporize them

imagine this 400 sig radius jumps to 2000 when the fighter is mwd'ing about

1 bomb will instapop them

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.

Azock
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#188 - 2011-10-10 18:02:32 UTC
Cause I feel like it is needed to repeat something someone else has said for the sake of CCP noticing!

Titan tracking needs to be fixed period. I have been in too many fleets where they had 40 Titans all gank fit, and our 400-500 man battleship blob, etc, gets raped by their guns and we lose over half our fleet.
Akara Ito
Phalanx Solutions
#189 - 2011-10-10 18:03:02 UTC
This is awesome. A greater reduction in Supercarrier EHP (-50%) would have been nice but all of this sounds good so far.

Btw what happened to the increased ship bay for Carriers ?
Mors Magne
Terra Incognita
#190 - 2011-10-10 18:03:06 UTC
I agree with all the changes.

I'd like to see a bigger role for (covert ops) bomber frigates and black ops battleships. If they could do extra damage against capital ships and supercapitals, that could make things interesting.

It might give black ops battleships a coherent, specific, useful role.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#191 - 2011-10-10 18:03:48 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
I am vaugely suspicious that dreads will still have any role with this change. Their dps is still nothing impressive and they're made of paper compared to supercap fleets: their sole use is sieging pos (which SC's can't touch). They're the wrong answer for a hub or a station, and I think that's a mistake. Their role now is pretty much glass cannons, but they're not damaging enough to fill that role well.


They still have a role in w-space, where life is good because there are no supers...

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Udran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#192 - 2011-10-10 18:03:56 UTC
CCP instead of using your powerful nerf bat. FIX THE BUGS!!!!!!
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#193 - 2011-10-10 18:04:26 UTC
but this means 100 super carriers can't solo 1000 battleships, im quitting eve. /sarcasm
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#194 - 2011-10-10 18:05:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
You nerfed my carriers! Damn you. Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

Now this game can be renamed to sub capitals online. This patch is making plain capitals useless against sub caps.

You done goofed CCP.

I demand whoever thought up this idea get dragged outback and shot with cheap bullets. Why the fighter nerf! why!

I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT.

X

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Richard de'Astley
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#195 - 2011-10-10 18:09:10 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
If you enjoyed these changes and things happening to spaceships IN SPACE I guerantee you'll love the rest of the stuff we have lined up for winter Big smile

Keep an eye out for the blogs.

Aren't you the one who wanted more microtransactions in the game? Can we get someone more qualified to tell us what we're likely to enjoy?
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#196 - 2011-10-10 18:09:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanth
Adan Natrier wrote:
I can't possibly keep up with this threadnaught but i'll do my best to summarise;

By removing regular drones you remove too much effectiveness of supercarriers against subcaps, which means there's even less attrition of them from being used in smaller numbers, which becomes too unsafe.

So these changes probably only push super cap deployment further into the super blob domain - for mutual security. And when you have 90 SC's drop 20 fighters each at the time your fleet is trying to enter system, it doesn't matter how many replacements they have, or don't have, because about 50% of the incoming fleet will blackscreen, and the other will get slaughtered. This happened in geminate, vale and trib more than once this year.

So generally, make them more gankable. Remove their ability to fit a cloak, make them much slower to get into warp, whatever. Reduce their EHP way more.

And make them vulnerable to ewar. this is the solution to SC's speedtanking sieged dreads (you can web them, and bring a new definition to hero rifter), and significant super blobs with distributed ewar on subcaps. Fine, give them super strong sensors so they're not automatically jammed up by 150 unbonused multispectrals or 2000 ec-300's, and whatever the numbers work out to require say 50 sensor damps to be useful. But this makes them into normal ships, with normal vulnerabilities. Why isn't this the correct course?

But I don't care that much, I'll take any nerf whether I think it's heavy handed or not, I've been on the receiving end of super blobs all year.

Thanks for not reading. \o


Your first three paragraphs were good. Then it collapsed.. the blob comment is correct. However, you're wrong that they needs to be more gankable and unable to fit cloak and/or be vulnerable to ewar. That'd be a regular carrier (that can dock). These are supercaps for a reason. I've myself flown and killed several supers in smaller to bigger scale combat. EHP is fine, and they're already vulnerable to neuts, hics, bumps, numbers, that's quite alot already.

Supers (moms as well as titans) need a nerf, that's for sure. But the only issue with them is damage, nothing else. FB's were a dumb idea (and as a mom-pilot before they even came into game I suggested that before we even had them). I've myself benefitted from them, so I should be biased towards them. But at the end of the day, the only issue with moms and titans are their damage output. And the only solution that would be needed is a nerf/removal of FB/DD.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.

xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#197 - 2011-10-10 18:09:39 UTC
This nerf = Win Subcap battle, Kill all supers on the field.

So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, and are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in.

That means that if you have a 15 man super fleet (mid size alliance), plus 120 sub caps (mid size alliance), and lose the subcap battle, you also just permanently lost 15 supers.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet. EVE is dead.

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]

Baillif
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#198 - 2011-10-10 18:09:58 UTC
So what is the spread on the bet CCP ignores the tracking links for titans and dreads problem and has to get I told you soed by the EVE community before next summer?
Akara Ito
Phalanx Solutions
#199 - 2011-10-10 18:10:17 UTC
Btw how about keeping a Dronebay on dreads and just give them -125 bandwith while in Siege ?
Selene D'Celeste
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
#200 - 2011-10-10 18:11:30 UTC
xxxak wrote:
This nerf = Win Subcap battle, Kill all supers on the field.

So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, and are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in.

That means that if you have a 15 man super fleet (mid size alliance), plus 120 sub caps (mid size alliance), and lose the subcap battle, you also just permanently lost 15 supers.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet. EVE is dead.


Oh no, that means there might be large scale subcapital engagements where both sides are afraid to commit their supercapital assets. Now that would just be terrible.

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