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New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

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Bring Stabity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2011-10-10 17:07:46 UTC
Please fix shield supercaps, thanks
Unjust Arbiter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2011-10-10 17:07:52 UTC
As a Capital pilot, I approve of this Dev Blog. Big smile
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#63 - 2011-10-10 17:08:41 UTC
Cronyx Ravage wrote:
Can someone explain why, exactly, it makes sense for fighters to have a hard time shooting subcaps? Theyre *fighters*, right? With a pilot inside. It would be like a Viper Mk.2 having a hard time shooting something the size of Colonial One, as far as cruisers go, a heavy raider to relate to frigates, or a frakin Basestar to relate to battleships. Making them only effective against capitals is like saying Vipers are only effective against Hiveships, Resurection hubs, or colony ships. Or a more real world example, F-16s are only effective against.... What? Something the size of an Independence Day city destroyer? (there is no real world exame for this size difference)


game balance > what the names of things sound like they should do

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Kel'taith
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2011-10-10 17:09:02 UTC
So a single dic could kill a SC now if it had enough ammo? This doesn't strike me as balanced. SC's should have some degree of defense against sub caps. It isn't often that enemy fleets field capitals or you get a titan tackled, even with metagaming. Essentially every SC pilot now has a ship that is only good for reinforcing structures. Just what I wanted to spend billions of isk on.

I agree that they are too powerful as it stands but reducing drone bays, nerfing fighters(which already suck), and removing the ability to field other drones at the same time is too much. Perhaps you should consider implementing a single nerf at a time and see how that goes.
Proximus Altima
Un4seen Development
Goonswarm Federation
#65 - 2011-10-10 17:09:34 UTC
I'm very excited to see the ship balancing plans by CCP. It will be fun to see what bomber fleets can do against all those fighters and fighter bombers now. I do also have to agree with The Mittanni on his point about remote tracking links and echo his concerns.
adopt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2011-10-10 17:10:01 UTC
Suddenly, small gang and dread warfare returns.
ToXicPaIN
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#67 - 2011-10-10 17:10:26 UTC
Bring Stabity wrote:
Please fix shield supercaps, thanks



this also

Boost the Hel !!! there have about 20-25% less EHP then the Nyx

so what is with this balancing ?
Bring Stabity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#68 - 2011-10-10 17:10:57 UTC
Kel'taith wrote:
So a single dic could kill a SC now if it had enough ammo? This doesn't strike me as balanced. SC's should have some degree of defense against sub caps. It isn't often that enemy fleets field capitals or you get a titan tackled, even with metagaming. Essentially every SC pilot now has a ship that is only good for reinforcing structures. Just what I wanted to spend billions of isk on.

I agree that they are too powerful as it stands but reducing drone bays, nerfing fighters(which already suck), and removing the ability to field other drones at the same time is too much. Perhaps you should consider implementing a single nerf at a time and see how that goes.


i believe your ceo flies a single dic, this is a change you should like
Sir HappyPants
Caldari Innovations and Research
#69 - 2011-10-10 17:11:03 UTC
So with the fighter nerf, normal carriers are pretty useless now? Especially the thanny with a bonus to fighter damage and not a bonus to reps.

I agree with Shadoo. Changing log off mechanics is good. Rest is not going to have the results CCP is looking for.

Also, allow 20 fighters and 20 Fighter Bombers in the drone bay of a super. Two full flights is only logical (imho).
Member of the #TweetFleet   @thisurlnotfound
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#70 - 2011-10-10 17:11:33 UTC
Has anyone run the numbers on the fighter change? Einherjis orbit with 300m/s at 1km. With a tracking speed of 0.125, the new sig res means they now do zero damage against even a stationary BS. Is this intentional?
farraguat
Perkone
Caldari State
#71 - 2011-10-10 17:11:41 UTC
completely ******* supercarriers in the ass. Only using fighters and fighter-bombers thats ******* ********
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#72 - 2011-10-10 17:11:45 UTC
Kel'taith wrote:
So a single dic could kill a SC now if it had enough ammo? This doesn't strike me as balanced. SC's should have some degree of defense against sub caps. It isn't often that enemy fleets field capitals or you get a titan tackled, even with metagaming. Essentially every SC pilot now has a ship that is only good for reinforcing structures. Just what I wanted to spend billions of isk on.

I agree that they are too powerful as it stands but reducing drone bays, nerfing fighters(which already suck), and removing the ability to field other drones at the same time is too much. Perhaps you should consider implementing a single nerf at a time and see how that goes.

"a smartbomb"

"someone, anywhere, who likes you enough to shoot a single dictor in the 23 hours (probably actually forever as I bet it can't beat shield regen) it takes to grind down an SC"

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#73 - 2011-10-10 17:12:24 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Excellent.


Let the map burn.


That's quite short-sighted. Supers will be doing (nearly) same damage as they do today. The only difference is they won't engage subcaps, and those superblobs might be more likely (than they used to) too. What differs is they might carry a subcap fleet with them. Subcap fleet can be cynoed around with the superblob, using bridges.

So in essence, for blobs and powerblocs, this is no nerf. This is a nerf to smaller alliances and/or groups. Especially the removal or regular drones, which is going to make non-blob moving alot more dangerous.

This game just goes more into a blob-game than ever, and looking at the map.. well it might not burn, as you say, it's more likely it'll stay stagnant than before these changes.


I'm in a smaller alliance. We're pretty happy about these changes. The DD change is the big deal, with the log-off change close behind. We already have doctrine to deal with supercarriers, and the drone bay changes will only make that easier. Likewise, we have doctrine prepared to deal with titans that can't DD subcaps.

if CCP actually deploy changes, we anticipate a merry winter of boat-violence amongst our neighbours.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
ToXicPaIN
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#74 - 2011-10-10 17:13:12 UTC
farraguat wrote:
completely ******* supercarriers in the ass. Only using fighters and fighter-bombers thats ******* ********

Kel'taith wrote:
So a single dic could kill a SC now if it had enough ammo? This doesn't strike me as balanced. SC's should have some degree of defense against sub caps. It isn't often that enemy fleets field capitals or you get a titan tackled, even with metagaming. Essentially every SC pilot now has a ship that is only good for reinforcing structures. Just what I wanted to spend billions of isk on.

I agree that they are too powerful as it stands but reducing drone bays, nerfing fighters(which already suck), and removing the ability to field other drones at the same time is too much. Perhaps you should consider implementing a single nerf at a time and see how that goes.


Yes ... SCs now are only to shoot in iHubs / TCU / Stations

so no more POS Shooting or other things ... and a titan has no chance to kill a single DIC/HIC that he tackled

why ?? we have no more Medium / Heavy / Sentry Drones left

This REALY SUCKS !!!

GREAT WORK F*** CCP
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#75 - 2011-10-10 17:13:23 UTC
Kel'taith wrote:
So a single dic could kill a SC now if it had enough ammo?


Only if the SC is "brave" enough to log off vs a single dictor.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#76 - 2011-10-10 17:14:16 UTC
After further thought, I am more and more disturbed that a super carrier cannot carry a full flight of fighters and FB.

Can a Dev explain why this was considered necessary?

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#77 - 2011-10-10 17:15:53 UTC
xxxak wrote:
After further thought, I am more and more disturbed that a super carrier cannot carry a full flight of fighters and FB.

Can a Dev explain why this was considered necessary?


preventing SCs from having overly large reserves of fighters/fighterbombers means they can be defanged by shooting their fighters, providing more interesting types of combat

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Sir HappyPants
Caldari Innovations and Research
#78 - 2011-10-10 17:16:01 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Kel'taith wrote:
So a single dic could kill a SC now if it had enough ammo?


Only if the SC is "brave" enough to log off vs a single dictor.



Nope... Fighter nerf means the SC would never hit the dic/hic no matter how long both parties are logged in. Also safe to assume that the dic/hic would be smart enough to stay outta smartbomb range.
Member of the #TweetFleet   @thisurlnotfound
David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#79 - 2011-10-10 17:17:22 UTC
Tokino Kaalakiota wrote:
Mittani and the rest of the "supercap blob" whiners can go cry themselves to sleep while smart individuals can make use of existing tactics to counter supercap blobs


I recommend you to look up "Welpfleet" and the distribution of supers; it would be nice if you had a clue before posting.
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#80 - 2011-10-10 17:17:29 UTC
Arkady Sadik wrote:
Has anyone run the numbers on the fighter change? Einherjis orbit with 300m/s at 1km. With a tracking speed of 0.125, the new sig res means they now do zero damage against even a stationary BS. Is this intentional?


Also, this?

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]