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Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#861 - 2012-07-14 04:22:06 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
All I'll say is that if hisec lost L3 and above (or even just L4 and above), I would have no problems at all with getting on board with no local, since nullsec would then be substantially more profitable than hisec, which means that people who live in nullsec would have to choose between either grinding a LOT, or trying their luck in nullsec and actually take a chance to make isk.


That's what I thought, and if EVE followed every other MMORPG that like CCP claimed their game to be a Sandbox player conflict driven game, that's exactly how it would be. There would be no non newbie PvE of any kind under the protection of unbeatable NPCs. Highsec as it is breaks the Sandbox, because it's built on Themepark principles. It's really for us to rub CCPs nose in this fact at every opportunity, until such time they really embrace the Sandbox MMORPG concept in both word and deed, or abandon the claim EVE is a Sandbox MMORPG but rather a MMORPG with some Sandbox elements.

Frying Doom wrote:

The biggest problem is how to fix Null without damaging the CCP cash cow of hi-sec. They will never remove L4's from high as too many subs come from that.


What actual evidence is there that Highsec is indeed a cash cow to CCP that you claim? Just because the majority of characters are there does not mean it's the gameplay the majority of EVE players want.

If CCP made a new area of space in an expansion that was 100% safe from PvP and had level one missions that paid out more than the greediest Incursion runner could dream of, we'd all have characters there. However, how many of us would say that we wanted that expansion or wanted to actually spend time playing there were it not for the Freighters full of ISK we were hauling away? Excluding really dumb people, probably none. Highsec is the same way, it's safer, more convenient, and a more efficient way for many to make ISK than anywhere else. So, that's why they park at least one character in Highsec, not because they appreciate the gameplay provided there the most. I would also speculate that those people would not abandon the game if it was taken away, just so long as it was taken away from everyone and not just them.
Frying Doom
#862 - 2012-07-14 05:04:42 UTC
Xorv wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
All I'll say is that if hisec lost L3 and above (or even just L4 and above), I would have no problems at all with getting on board with no local, since nullsec would then be substantially more profitable than hisec, which means that people who live in nullsec would have to choose between either grinding a LOT, or trying their luck in nullsec and actually take a chance to make isk.


That's what I thought, and if EVE followed every other MMORPG that like CCP claimed their game to be a Sandbox player conflict driven game, that's exactly how it would be. There would be no non newbie PvE of any kind under the protection of unbeatable NPCs. Highsec as it is breaks the Sandbox, because it's built on Themepark principles. It's really for us to rub CCPs nose in this fact at every opportunity, until such time they really embrace the Sandbox MMORPG concept in both word and deed, or abandon the claim EVE is a Sandbox MMORPG but rather a MMORPG with some Sandbox elements.

Frying Doom wrote:

The biggest problem is how to fix Null without damaging the CCP cash cow of hi-sec. They will never remove L4's from high as too many subs come from that.


What actual evidence is there that Highsec is indeed a cash cow to CCP that you claim? Just because the majority of characters are there does not mean it's the gameplay the majority of EVE players want.

If CCP made a new area of space in an expansion that was 100% safe from PvP and had level one missions that paid out more than the greediest Incursion runner could dream of, we'd all have characters there. However, how many of us would say that we wanted that expansion or wanted to actually spend time playing there were it not for the Freighters full of ISK we were hauling away? Excluding really dumb people, probably none. Highsec is the same way, it's safer, more convenient, and a more efficient way for many to make ISK than anywhere else. So, that's why they park at least one character in Highsec, not because they appreciate the gameplay provided there the most. I would also speculate that those people would not abandon the game if it was taken away, just so long as it was taken away from everyone and not just them.

Ok for a start all a sandbox means is it occurs in the one environment not separate shards, with one set of rules. Strangely like kids in a sandbox.

As to the hi-sec cash cow, look how many miners and mission runners there are in Hi-sec, you have eyes use them. It will not be the high sec everyone wants as some people want no pvp at all there, others only via wardecs and others want to gank people without repercussions like not being blown up. So with so many different types of players it cannot make everyone happy. On the last snap shot I saw 60% of players over 5 million SP were in high sec add to that any newbies floating around and yeah most of CCP's cash comes from Hi-sec.
Only a small amount of actual cash comes from null, given the amounts made by the larger alliances and the number of plexes they could easily buy I would doubt that more than 15% of the actually cash for the game came from Null. There are lots of isk to be made and a lot of it is not in Hi-sec.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#863 - 2012-07-14 07:24:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorv
Frying Doom wrote:

Ok for a start all a sandbox means is it occurs in the one environment not separate shards, with one set of rules. Strangely like kids in a sandbox.


No, that would at best be a rather poorly worded definition of an open world single shard/server. There's plenty of threads on these forums where people, myself included, have explained to one confused or in denial poster or another on what a Sandbox is in context of a MMORPG. You should go do a search and read them.

Frying Doom wrote:

As to the hi-sec cash cow, look how many miners and mission runners there are in Hi-sec, you have eyes use them. It will not be the high sec everyone wants as some people want no pvp at all there, others only via wardecs and others want to gank people without repercussions like not being blown up. So with so many different types of players it cannot make everyone happy. On the last snap shot I saw 60% of players over 5 million SP were in high sec add to that any newbies floating around and yeah most of CCP's cash comes from Hi-sec.


You quoted my entire post, but given this reply it looks as though you never actually read what I said. Because it refuted pretty much everything you said that has any relevance to the discussion at hand. So use your own eyes and read the posts to which you are replying before posting next time.

Explain to us how most of CCPs cash comes from Highsec? Because if you're a non newbie who only plays in Highsec and avoids PvP situations that could lead to loses then you should have no problem at all paying for your account via Plex. Someone else is paying CCP for your account, likely someone who doesn't spend all their time in Highsec or avoiding PvP.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#864 - 2012-07-14 07:54:25 UTC
Xorv wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Ok for a start all a sandbox means is it occurs in the one environment not separate shards, with one set of rules. Strangely like kids in a sandbox.


No, that would at best be a rather poorly worded definition of an open world single shard/server. There's plenty of threads on these forums where people, myself included, have explained to one confused or in denial poster or another on what a Sandbox is in context of a MMORPG. You should go do a search and read them.

Frying Doom wrote:

As to the hi-sec cash cow, look how many miners and mission runners there are in Hi-sec, you have eyes use them. It will not be the high sec everyone wants as some people want no pvp at all there, others only via wardecs and others want to gank people without repercussions like not being blown up. So with so many different types of players it cannot make everyone happy. On the last snap shot I saw 60% of players over 5 million SP were in high sec add to that any newbies floating around and yeah most of CCP's cash comes from Hi-sec.


You quoted my entire post, but given this reply it looks as though you never actually read what I said. Because it refuted pretty much everything you said that has any relevance to the discussion at hand. So use your own eyes and read the posts to which you are replying before posting next time.

Explain to us how most of CCPs cash comes from Highsec? Because if you're a non newbie who only plays in Highsec and avoids PvP situations that could lead to loses then you should have no problem at all paying for your account via Plex. Someone else is paying CCP for your account, likely someone who doesn't spend all their time in Highsec or avoiding PvP.


You forgot about the fabulously wealthy, who can afford to pay for multiple accounts and still buy plex for lolz while they PvP allover....

And There are more players on average in hi-sec systems than there are in null.

Thus hi-sec has more account power.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#865 - 2012-07-14 09:51:33 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:

And There are more players on average in hi-sec systems than there are in null.

Thus hi-sec has more account power.


Yup and I'm one of them, all 3 characters on single active account in Highsec. What's your point? What do you mean by "account power"? ...Does this mean CCP should act on everything I've been saying because my characters are all in Highsec? Lol
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#866 - 2012-07-14 14:12:08 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
I'm not "whining about local", I'm telling people who are "whining about local" (because they want more PVP kills, since they can't get it the honest way) that they're promoting a bad idea which'll make their life worse in the long run.


the honest way ? what the **** are you smoking, lmao, come on man,, ffs did you really mean that,,, like really ?

perhaps you'd like the attacker to warp to you, inform you in local that he/she intends to attack you and warns you to defend yourself good sir !

then waits for a reply and if they don't get a reply they go away.

you have it all wrong zim, you are whining about removal or any change to local, you believe it's a bad idea because you depend on the fact that you can see a red in system and it leads to one thing, yes zim, station tanking.

explain to me how it's a fair system when all one has to do is stare at the local channel and watch for a red, once a red is seen one docks.
or how it leads new players into thinking that if they can't see a red in system that they will not be attacked.

i see there a while ago local was "broke " for a bit, maybe it was CCP trying a little test to see what the reaction/kill numbers was if local was delayed in some way.Blink

i can see a change to local being a good thing, it would promote team work, it would kill off the idea that hi sec is safe.
people would have to learn how to use D scan.( also perhaps a new tool a little like radar ) people wouldn't be sitting watching TV while they do the hi sec lvl 4 mining not watching what the **** they are doing style of play, the very same people who once they get popped they jump on the forums and whine like ******* and makes threats of i'm going to unsub, this is ******* stupid !

why do you fear such a change Zim ? or are you just trolling ?
Frying Doom
#867 - 2012-07-15 12:51:39 UTC
Xorv wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:

And There are more players on average in hi-sec systems than there are in null.

Thus hi-sec has more account power.


Yup and I'm one of them, all 3 characters on single active account in Highsec. What's your point? What do you mean by "account power"? ...Does this mean CCP should act on everything I've been saying because my characters are all in Highsec? Lol

The snapshot for population was exactly that. You cannot log into all 3 characters on the same account at the same time. But I must asked have you ever been to Null sec, lo or WH space. They are deserted the population density is bugger all.

It is a really easy concept, there are more players in Hi-sec so there is more cash coming from there for CCP to spend.
Honestly it isn't that hard.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Deena Amaj
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#868 - 2012-07-16 00:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Deena Amaj
Might as well remove cloaking, because that is the next thing everybody will be running for. Just a random thought.

I like the idea of making things tougher - but you have to still make sure that the new players have a way to establish a foothold to eve. If it is an ultimate rapefest, they will leave - and that pretty fast.

Unfortunately, I fear it is too late to do such a (drastic) thing nowadays.

Don't forget that the learning curve of eve is already deadly and steep. You want the noobs to stay today so there is something to pew for tomorrow.

But I'm all for nerfing the cradle so they don't stay forever in highsec.
There has to be more welcoming ways for them to populate 0.0 without instantly blowing up too.


edit: blasted draft-saver

confirthisposmed

I'm probably typing on a Tablet too, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#869 - 2012-07-16 10:30:12 UTC  |  Edited by: xxxTRUSTxxx
Frying Doom wrote:
Xorv wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:

And There are more players on average in hi-sec systems than there are in null.

Thus hi-sec has more account power.


Yup and I'm one of them, all 3 characters on single active account in Highsec. What's your point? What do you mean by "account power"? ...Does this mean CCP should act on everything I've been saying because my characters are all in Highsec? Lol

The snapshot for population was exactly that. You cannot log into all 3 characters on the same account at the same time. But I must asked have you ever been to Null sec, lo or WH space. They are deserted the population density is bugger all.

It is a really easy concept, there are more players in Hi-sec so there is more cash coming from there for CCP to spend.
Honestly it isn't that hard.



very true, also it has to be said, what ever happened to the idea of sov systems being linked, gates being borders & defenbable with gate guns being manned by real people, access being set for blues and not reds, if the reds want in, well they have to go ahead and huff and puff and blow the gate down.
if CCP wants to fix null sec they need to rethink the current mechanics, a huge galaxy, systems that are indeed empty but are held as buffer systems by the larger alliances, don't snap now, i'm not getting at the largers alliances at all, but it is true, you see a large fleet engagement and it drives almost all population of null into one constellation. this in itself shows how stupid it is, high sec will stay as it is with the curent null sec mechanics of if your a big alliance you hold as much space as you don't need, you think i'm wrong, just look at the amount of free systems there is out there, pretty much nothing but the meat in the sandwhich of the big sov holders. i'm not saying limit sov holdings, i'm saying make sov so it makes sense, not huge amounts of systems under the control of the few with feck all population, no market, no industry, pretty much unused systems, this is getting away from the topic here so rant over, this ones for another debate, one that has been debated many times already k, k, one last thing before i kill this off topic rant.

FIX NULL SEC CCP ! ffs
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#870 - 2012-07-16 15:00:24 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
you have it all wrong zim, you are whining about removal or any change to local

Nope, I'm not whining about anything, what I'm doing is I'm telling you that any notion you have that this'll make nullsec anything other than an even bigger population desert than it already is, is wrong. The only thing you'll end up doing if you remove local or make local delayed, without a consequent severe decrease in hisec payouts, is make L4s even more heavily used by nullsec personnel than it already is.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
explain to me how it's a fair system when all one has to do is stare at the local channel and watch for a red, once a red is seen one docks.
or how it leads new players into thinking that if they can't see a red in system that they will not be attacked.

Simple: there's a balance to it. You pay attention, there's a chance you won't get caught. You don't pay attention, and there's a chance you get caught. Mining, running anoms and ratting are fairly monotonous activities, gankers can come at any moment, and it only takes a few seconds' inattentiveness at the wrong time to get caught.

Now explain to me why we should change this into a system where cloaky gangs run rampant, and where anyone trying to rat, run anoms or mine have as little as 4 seconds in which to respond, and that's only if they stare holes in the dscan.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
i can see a change to local being a good thing, it would promote team work, it would kill off the idea that hi sec is safe.
people would have to learn how to use D scan.( also perhaps a new tool a little like radar ) people wouldn't be sitting watching TV while they do the hi sec lvl 4 mining not watching what the **** they are doing style of play, the very same people who once they get popped they jump on the forums and whine like ******* and makes threats of i'm going to unsub, this is ******* stupid !

Hisec won't notice anything, they barely notice local is there outside of scams or insults. They wouldn't be looking at their dscan while doing their L4s either, and they'd still ***** and whine every time they get popped, because they'd still think hisec was safe.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
why do you fear such a change Zim ? or are you just trolling ?

I don't "fear such a change", I'm just telling you that you're wrong.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#871 - 2012-07-16 18:59:35 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Nope, I'm not whining about anything, what I'm doing is I'm telling you that any notion you have that this'll make nullsec anything other than an even bigger population desert than it already is, is wrong. The only thing you'll end up doing if you remove local or make local delayed, without a consequent severe decrease in hisec payouts, is make L4s even more heavily used by nullsec personnel than it already is.


you are totally wrong Zim, this has nothing to do with low sec/nullsec population, the reason those areas are as you say deserts is beacuse the galaxy is pretty big Zim and sov mechanics are should i say,, a litle broken.

Lord Zim wrote:

Simple: there's a balance to it. You pay attention, there's a chance you won't get caught. You don't pay attention, and there's a chance you get caught. Mining, running anoms and ratting are fairly monotonous activities, gankers can come at any moment, and it only takes a few seconds' inattentiveness at the wrong time to get caught. Now explain to me why we should change this into a system where cloaky gangs run rampant, and where anyone trying to rat, run anoms or mine have as little as 4 seconds in which to respond, and that's only if they stare holes in the dscan.


cloaky gangs already run rampant, along with ganking gangs, there is no balance in staring at the local channel and living in a bubble believing that you are safe as long as you think the pilots in system with you are not going to hand you your ass.
thanks for showing us exactly what we are saying, local leads people into a false sense of safety.
Lord Zim wrote:

Hisec won't notice anything, they barely notice local is there outside of scams or insults. They wouldn't be looking at their dscan while doing their L4s either, and they'd still ***** and whine every time they get popped, because they'd still think hisec was safe.


you assume too much Zim, but for those that watch tv while mining ratting mission running, that's their own loss and lazyness, if you can't handle d-scan while you kill npc's you are in real trouble when it comes to real pilots hunting you and i promise you this, if you decide to not invest in learning the skills needed to survive no matter what area of space you are in, it's only a mater of time before you get dead and no channel is going to save you.


Lord Zim wrote:

I don't "fear such a change", I'm just telling you that you're wrong.


then tell me Zim, why are you not even a little open to the idea that local needs to change.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#872 - 2012-07-16 20:19:33 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

The snapshot for population was exactly that. You cannot log into all 3 characters on the same account at the same time. But I must asked have you ever been to Null sec, lo or WH space. They are deserted the population density is bugger all.

It is a really easy concept, there are more players in Hi-sec so there is more cash coming from there for CCP to spend.
Honestly it isn't that hard.


That there is more player activity in Highsec isn't in dispute, it's the logically leaps you and others make to form erroneous conclusions from that information that's being challenged.

At the core of this logical failing is the fallacy of composition. In that some posters are inferring everyone counted in those numbers (from your snap shot and other stats) is representative of their views of gameplay, when in fact only a portion of those in Highsec are representative of those views. It's an appeal for action based on that they're the majority when in actual fact there is no real evidence to support that.

So what does it mean when you say Highsec has more account power when everyone arguing here has characters there?

...don't assume that because players are active in Highsec that they support the gameplay found in that space. As I explained with the following example at the top of the page which you clearly didn't read.

Xorv wrote:
If CCP made a new area of space in an expansion that was 100% safe from PvP and had level one missions that paid out more than the greediest Incursion runner could dream of, we'd all have characters there. However, how many of us would say that we wanted that expansion or wanted to actually spend time playing there were it not for the Freighters full of ISK we were hauling away? Excluding really dumb people, probably none. Highsec is the same way, it's safer, more convenient, and a more efficient way for many to make ISK than anywhere else. So, that's why they park at least one character in Highsec, not because they appreciate the gameplay provided there the most. I would also speculate that those people would not abandon the game if it was taken away, just so long as it was taken away from everyone and not just them.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#873 - 2012-07-16 20:23:37 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:

then tell me Zim, why are you not even a little open to the idea that local needs to change.


He is open to changing it, but only in the event Highsec Risk/Effort vs Reward issues are addressed.
Lord Zim wrote:

All I'll say is that if hisec lost L3 and above (or even just L4 and above), I would have no problems at all with getting on board with no local, since nullsec would then be substantially more profitable than hisec, which means that people who live in nullsec would have to choose between either grinding a LOT, or trying their luck in nullsec and actually take a chance to make isk.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#874 - 2012-07-16 20:30:37 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
I'm not "whining about local", I'm telling people who are "whining about local" (because they want more PVP kills, since they can't get it the honest way) that they're promoting a bad idea which'll make their life worse in the long run.


the honest way ? what the **** are you smoking, lmao, come on man,, ffs did you really mean that,,, like really ?

perhaps you'd like the attacker to warp to you, inform you in local that he/she intends to attack you and warns you to defend yourself good sir !

then waits for a reply and if they don't get a reply they go away.

you have it all wrong zim, you are whining about removal or any change to local, you believe it's a bad idea because you depend on the fact that you can see a red in system and it leads to one thing, yes zim, station tanking.

explain to me how it's a fair system when all one has to do is stare at the local channel and watch for a red, once a red is seen one docks.
or how it leads new players into thinking that if they can't see a red in system that they will not be attacked.

i see there a while ago local was "broke " for a bit, maybe it was CCP trying a little test to see what the reaction/kill numbers was if local was delayed in some way.Blink

i can see a change to local being a good thing, it would promote team work, it would kill off the idea that hi sec is safe.
people would have to learn how to use D scan.( also perhaps a new tool a little like radar ) people wouldn't be sitting watching TV while they do the hi sec lvl 4 mining not watching what the **** they are doing style of play, the very same people who once they get popped they jump on the forums and whine like ******* and makes threats of i'm going to unsub, this is ******* stupid !

why do you fear such a change Zim ? or are you just trolling ?




While not having local in WH's it's not much of a big deal, do it in null/low/high there's not a single good reason for it.
You choose to live in WH you deal with the rules there, you go in null low or high you do the same or, if you really think changes are needed then expose you super plan with detailed mechanics etc and what will that bring for the community as a whole in the sandbox and not just your little person.

We really missed that, WH dewlers and risk averse people explaining how awesome Eve would be without local and how local is so bad for the game -them mostly because with local they take RISKS while with no local they would just have reduced to no risk Lol

Nice stuff.

brb
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#875 - 2012-07-16 21:36:18 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
you are totally wrong Zim, this has nothing to do with low sec/nullsec population, the reason those areas are as you say deserts is beacuse the galaxy is pretty big Zim and sov mechanics are should i say,, a litle broken.

SOV mechanics have absolutely nothing to do with what people do in nullsec on a day to day basis.

Very few people, compared to how many people are involved in actually taking space, actually use it, most of them (me included) do other things in hisec because it's less effort and roughly the same (or more) reward.
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
cloaky gangs already run rampant, along with ganking gangs, there is no balance in staring at the local channel and living in a bubble believing that you are safe as long as you think the pilots in system with you are not going to hand you your ass.
thanks for showing us exactly what we are saying, local leads people into a false sense of safety.

Cloaky gangs don't run rampant, now. They will after the local change, then they'll start whining about how space is completely empty, because everyone'll rather spend their time AFKing L4s for slightly less reward than what anoms etc give out, for what would be more work than an actual job would entail.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
you assume too much Zim, but for those that watch tv while mining ratting mission running, that's their own loss and lazyness, if you can't handle d-scan while you kill npc's you are in real trouble when it comes to real pilots hunting you and i promise you this, if you decide to not invest in learning the skills needed to survive no matter what area of space you are in, it's only a mater of time before you get dead and no channel is going to save you.

What I'm going to assume is that you're one of those guys who'd happily make everyone else's game **** just to make the act of actually getting kills easier.

Also :laffo: at your idea that people in hisec'll start running dscan. That's funny. What'll happen is that the only time anyone'll actually care about the lack of local is when there's a war on.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
then tell me Zim, why are you not even a little open to the idea that local needs to change.

I'm "not even a little open to the idea that local needs to change" because weenies like you only think of how to make it easier to gank, with nary a thought to the rest of the game. No local works in WHs because WHs have severe limits on ships which can come in, high control of where the exits go to, very few static resources etc etc etc, and most importantly, rewards which basically make the extra cockstab worth it. Nullsec currently doesn't make it worth it as it is over hisec L4s, let alone if you actually make the job of gankers much easier than it is in WHs.

But you don't care about that, as long as ganking people is made easier.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#876 - 2012-07-17 00:13:40 UTC  |  Edited by: xxxTRUSTxxx
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
I'm not "whining about local", I'm telling people who are "whining about local" (because they want more PVP kills, since they can't get it the honest way) that they're promoting a bad idea which'll make their life worse in the long run.


the honest way ? what the **** are you smoking, lmao, come on man,, ffs did you really mean that,,, like really ?

perhaps you'd like the attacker to warp to you, inform you in local that he/she intends to attack you and warns you to defend yourself good sir !

then waits for a reply and if they don't get a reply they go away.

you have it all wrong zim, you are whining about removal or any change to local, you believe it's a bad idea because you depend on the fact that you can see a red in system and it leads to one thing, yes zim, station tanking.

explain to me how it's a fair system when all one has to do is stare at the local channel and watch for a red, once a red is seen one docks.
or how it leads new players into thinking that if they can't see a red in system that they will not be attacked.

i see there a while ago local was "broke " for a bit, maybe it was CCP trying a little test to see what the reaction/kill numbers was if local was delayed in some way.Blink

i can see a change to local being a good thing, it would promote team work, it would kill off the idea that hi sec is safe.
people would have to learn how to use D scan.( also perhaps a new tool a little like radar ) people wouldn't be sitting watching TV while they do the hi sec lvl 4 mining not watching what the **** they are doing style of play, the very same people who once they get popped they jump on the forums and whine like ******* and makes threats of i'm going to unsub, this is ******* stupid !

why do you fear such a change Zim ? or are you just trolling ?




While not having local in WH's it's not much of a big deal, do it in null/low/high there's not a single good reason for it.
You choose to live in WH you deal with the rules there, you go in null low or high you do the same or, if you really think changes are needed then expose you super plan with detailed mechanics etc and what will that bring for the community as a whole in the sandbox and not just your little person.

We really missed that, WH dewlers and risk averse people explaining how awesome Eve would be without local and how local is so bad for the game -them mostly because with local they take RISKS while with no local they would just have reduced to no risk Lol

Nice stuff.



read the rest of what i said before you blow out your a hole, i stated already my interest in local changes is all about stealth and covert. grab your spoon and join the line :D

btw do i look like the ******* OP, i'm giving my pennies worth , nothing more. if you want a grand plan CCP can go ahead an d hire my ass, warning to CCP, i don't come cheap. Roll
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#877 - 2012-07-17 00:15:15 UTC  |  Edited by: xxxTRUSTxxx
Lord Zim wrote:
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
you are totally wrong Zim, this has nothing to do with low sec/nullsec population, the reason those areas are as you say deserts is beacuse the galaxy is pretty big Zim and sov mechanics are should i say,, a litle broken.

SOV mechanics have absolutely nothing to do with what people do in nullsec on a day to day basis.

Very few people, compared to how many people are involved in actually taking space, actually use it, most of them (me included) do other things in hisec because it's less effort and roughly the same (or more) reward.
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
cloaky gangs already run rampant, along with ganking gangs, there is no balance in staring at the local channel and living in a bubble believing that you are safe as long as you think the pilots in system with you are not going to hand you your ass.
thanks for showing us exactly what we are saying, local leads people into a false sense of safety.

Cloaky gangs don't run rampant, now. They will after the local change, then they'll start whining about how space is completely empty, because everyone'll rather spend their time AFKing L4s for slightly less reward than what anoms etc give out, for what would be more work than an actual job would entail.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
you assume too much Zim, but for those that watch tv while mining ratting mission running, that's their own loss and lazyness, if you can't handle d-scan while you kill npc's you are in real trouble when it comes to real pilots hunting you and i promise you this, if you decide to not invest in learning the skills needed to survive no matter what area of space you are in, it's only a mater of time before you get dead and no channel is going to save you.

What I'm going to assume is that you're one of those guys who'd happily make everyone else's game **** just to make the act of actually getting kills easier.

Also :laffo: at your idea that people in hisec'll start running dscan. That's funny. What'll happen is that the only time anyone'll actually care about the lack of local is when there's a war on.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
then tell me Zim, why are you not even a little open to the idea that local needs to change.

I'm "not even a little open to the idea that local needs to change" because weenies like you only think of how to make it easier to gank, with nary a thought to the rest of the game. No local works in WHs because WHs have severe limits on ships which can come in, high control of where the exits go to, very few static resources etc etc etc, and most importantly, rewards which basically make the extra cockstab worth it. Nullsec currently doesn't make it worth it as it is over hisec L4s, let alone if you actually make the job of gankers much easier than it is in WHs.

But you don't care about that, as long as ganking people is made easier.



you know nothing about me Zim, like i said, you assume way too much. btw little bee you can ram that weenie comment right up your bollox Lol
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#878 - 2012-07-17 00:27:23 UTC
Xorv wrote:
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:

then tell me Zim, why are you not even a little open to the idea that local needs to change.


He is open to changing it, but only in the event Highsec Risk/Effort vs Reward issues are addressed.
Lord Zim wrote:

All I'll say is that if hisec lost L3 and above (or even just L4 and above), I would have no problems at all with getting on board with no local, since nullsec would then be substantially more profitable than hisec, which means that people who live in nullsec would have to choose between either grinding a LOT, or trying their luck in nullsec and actually take a chance to make isk.




No he's not,

Lord Zim wrote:

I'm "not even a little open to the idea that local needs to change"
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#879 - 2012-07-17 01:34:43 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
read the rest of what i said before you blow out your a hole, i stated already my interest in local changes is all about stealth and covert. grab your spoon and join the line :D

Read: I want ganking to be easier.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
btw do i look like the ******* OP, i'm giving my pennies worth , nothing more. if you want a grand plan CCP can go ahead an d hire my ass, warning to CCP, i don't come cheap. Roll

You wouldn't come cheap, no, you'd cost them subscriptions.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
you know nothing about me Zim, like i said, you assume way too much.

Tell us more about how nullsec works, mr "nullsec is empty on a daily basis because of the sov system".

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
No he's not,

Nice selective quoting you got going there, doesn't make you right though.

With the one-sided "I just want ganking to be a fucktonne easier" arguments people like you keep coming up with, I'm definitely not, no, because what you're suggesting will only depopulate nullsec further.

Temper the change of not having local with nullsec being vastly more profitable than hisec, and you have a modicum of chance to get support for that change, but good luck getting the hisec reward nerf past the playerbase, and good luck getting CCP to up the rewards in nullsec. The last time CCP did that they panicked over the effect it had on the economy.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#880 - 2012-07-17 12:36:49 UTC  |  Edited by: xxxTRUSTxxx
Lord Zim wrote:
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
read the rest of what i said before you blow out your a hole, i stated already my interest in local changes is all about stealth and covert. grab your spoon and join the line :D

Read: I want ganking to be easier.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
btw do i look like the ******* OP, i'm giving my pennies worth , nothing more. if you want a grand plan CCP can go ahead an d hire my ass, warning to CCP, i don't come cheap. Roll

You wouldn't come cheap, no, you'd cost them subscriptions.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
you know nothing about me Zim, like i said, you assume way too much.

Tell us more about how nullsec works, mr "nullsec is empty on a daily basis because of the sov system".

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
No he's not,

Nice selective quoting you got going there, doesn't make you right though.

With the one-sided "I just want ganking to be a fucktonne easier" arguments people like you keep coming up with, I'm definitely not, no, because what you're suggesting will only depopulate nullsec further.

Temper the change of not having local with nullsec being vastly more profitable than hisec, and you have a modicum of chance to get support for that change, but good luck getting the hisec reward nerf past the playerbase, and good luck getting CCP to up the rewards in nullsec. The last time CCP did that they panicked over the effect it had on the economy.


you talk about selective quoting ,, lmao,, read: i want ganking to be easier, you assume way too much Zim, i already said that if local was to change then so would other mechanics to bring balance to the idea, but like always in this thread you target one area and refuse to accept that you see a red flag when someone mentions any changes to how local works.

i know as much about null sec as you do Zim, so get down off your goon soap box there and deal with it ;)

none of us alone have all the answers, but together, like i've already tried to explain Zim, perhaps it could be fixed.
but here's where i stand on all this,, we can talk shite all we want, CCP make the changes, and call me crazy, but aren't them lads getting ******* paid to do a job. so yea, it's CCP's baby, they can fix it, you and I along with all the others in this thread are doing nothing but debating the possible ideas to make the game more interesting,perhaps possible fixes to some of the mechanics, some ideas are good some are shite.


so to be clear ZIm,

because my interest in this debate is NOT the one-sided "I just want ganking to be a fucktonne easier" argument you assume i'm trying to make.

my interest in local changing is in one area, i like covert ops, i'd like to see covert meaning covert and not being as it is right now, i'm not very covert if you can see me in local am i.

I do not want it so i can never be found, there needs to be a counter to cloaking ships, you want balance, show me where there is balance with the current cloaking mechanics Zim ?

i'm not interested in a system that gives one side an advantage. there should be a counter to cloaking ships, when you mention a counter to cloaking, the cloaking afk gobshites get all butt hurt and start throwing the toys out of their sandbox ;)

i hope you get it now Zim. change is good, it keeps shite interesting.

as far as poplutaion changes in null sec go, the numbers of people on EVE have fallen Zim, what about certain alliances doing everything they can to drive people out of there sov ?
you want more in null sec so you can remove them,, lol give me break.