Science & Industry

Minmatar Cruiser, Gallente Cruiser etc etc etc. Could go on but won't.

It amazes me how few people have fully read the dev blog. You obviously haven't read the bit about reducing the current level of EHP on Hulks & Covetors.

To be honest I can't see the need for any of the changes in the mining ships dev blog. CCP wanted to make mining a more viable career option that gives a reasonable rate of profit. At the current moment prices for minerals are at a good rate and do indeed make mining a viable career choice. If you use your head and fit one MLU plus some tank to cover any errors you make you will probably not lose your ship to a gank. Therefore to my mind mining does not need amending or altering. If any pilot wants to AFK mine they deserve to lose their ship and I don't think massive amounts of EHP should be added to Retrievers to facilitate just such an activity. If I was in favour of ganking I would go out and destroy anyone who AFK mines myself.

To wit (and you can read all of this here).


As you can tell, no where does it say less EHP - just that the Covetor/hulk will have "little to average EHP" - which I interpret to mean relative to the rest of the mining barges/exhumers.

I expect good changes overall. It's up to the community to be on top of whatever changes CCP wants to implement and to GIVE FEEDBACK - that is loud and clear - when the changes start hitting the test servers.

I agree, however, remember that the entire reads:

• Resilience: another point is to give some of them proper EHP not to be one-shot by anything that even remotely sneezes on them.

This does imply an EHP increase - since they currently are one-shotted by anything that sneezes in their direction.


QFT

Oh, and mining (the harvesting part) isn't broken - just the ships.

Thanks for the correction lol. It is a nerf to the current market and the Hulk. Right now it is profitable to ice mine and mine in general. This WILL change however. With an increase in defense to ships and larger cargo, the farmers of the game will pick up the slack. They will flood the market and get as much isk as they can. Sure you can mine like a maniac in a hulk for 1-2 hours, but 15 hours afk mining in lets say the new Mack (medium defense, large cargo hold), will yield a much larger profit. Right now the afk mining is nipped in the rear due to the constant ganking that goes on in .5 and above (if you are mining in .4 and below without alot of protection, you are wrong). With an increase to protection there will be zero threat since concord will arrive before the miner is popped. I will take part in this as well temporarily till the market is flooded. Why mine in a hulk where you can lose a very expensive ship when you can mine in a more defensible ship with almost zero threat?

So yes in my mind it is very simple. Get larger mining ship, no risk and mine away. Markets will flood with the simple materials and prices will drop. If nothing else all the capital pilots should be happy at the upcoming drop in isotope prices. I know I will miss the ice mining :P This will cause the hulks to be undeseriable since you can mine in a ship with a slight less yield wih zero threat of losing it. Hulk prices will drop and the other ships may increase temporarily. I know I am turning in my Hulk for a more defensible ship. I can take a bit less on my yield if it means almost no threat of getting popped.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it. We will have to watch and see how the markets do. For record I think the changes are ridiculous and allow the less dedicated to get into higher T2 ships earlier, but that is CCP goal. I saw this once in another game as well (SWG anyone). I currently enjoy the system of mining in place right now.

With these changes, CCP is throwing miners a bone.
They are saying, "yes you can have tanks, but like any other thing int he game you will need a tradeoff".

Miners will continue to use max yield Hulks and die, and whine.

Well, the ones that currently do that.

These changes are great.

I can now (in the future when things get done) use Hulks for Corp ops, and the Skiff when I'm alone. And the Mack when I am lazy or doing Ice solo (Ice would go in the ore bay right...).

Lets go through some possible changes. One, they reduce the Hulk's current defense, which makes it pretty gankable, no way to use this in high sec, less desirable. Two, they keep as it, somewhat desirable, but still is it worth the risk. Lets review a snippet once again:

Our goal is simple: each and every single mining barge (and their tech 2 variant) should have an appealing role, and not just be a stepping stone on the way to something better. Players should'nt only aim for the Hulk without considering anything else when doing some hard rock and roll mining. That means playing with the following variables:

•Mining output: first and most visible balancing factor, plan is to increase all barge mining output to be within an acceptable margin of the Hulk, not miles behind as it is currently.
•Autonomy: mining barges should have proper cargo holds so they not always have to rely on jet cans (without turning them into industrials however). That means giving them large, specialized ore bays where all the ore will automatically go into when mining.
•Resilience: another point is to give some of them proper EHP not to be one-shot by anything that even remotely sneezes on them.
As a result we thus get:

•New ORE frig: we want this ship to replace current mining frigates as low barrier of entry vessel, but also fulfill high-end gameplay expectations by providing a very mobile platform for mining in hostile space. Lowest mining output, decent ore bay, little to no resilience.
•Procurer/Skiff: primarily made for self-defense. Better mining rate than the ORE frig, good ore bay, but capable of having battleship-like EHP.
•Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similear to the size of a jet can, second best mining output but less EHP than the procurer mining barge.
•Covetor/hulk: ore bay is identical to its current cargo hold, little to average EHP, but best mining output. Basically made for group operations when players have industrials and protection to back them up

What does this mean ? I think it means that the days of ganking high sec miners is coming to an end. People will use Macks for high sec. If it is more tankable than the Hulk right now, which pretty much we can draw from this post it will be, then it will be the mining ship of choice. Big ore bay and remember: they are bridging the gap between all mining ships. Why even think Hulk when you can use a ship that can survivdetill Concord shows up. Why use a ship with less yield like the Skiff ? If you can tank out a Mack properly and go afk for an hour while you get it filled, there is no reason to use a ship with slower yield and smaller bay. People will use what is most efficient and safe. This means most likely the Mack. This will in turn drive down the prices on the other ships substantially.

You say go afk for an hour while getting it filled... then you say 'most efficient and safe'.. If it took me an hour to fill a can (Mack's cargo bay size) with the training time I have put into mining, I would probably commit seppuku.

They did mention they want to keep all of the miners in the same ball park for yield. If that is the case, you may be able to go afk for a couple, but I am guessing / hoping its no longer than 10-15 minutes. The advantage of the Mack is supposed to be to help when solo mining, but wow, do some of you really seem focused on the possibility of exploiters, which wouldn't be able to abuse it to any great degree anyway (granted, I haven't seen any hard numbers yet).

Multi-boxers will have an advantage with the new toys (as they always will, being able to run multiple accts), but the aim with some of the ships is not at them, but at the single account, and most likely, more casual players that they are trying to also attract to the game.

I dont mind you cherry picking or thinking im full of it. No worries here. Keep in mind not everyone mines roids, so the large cargo hold (like the roqual, only ore fits) is a godsend for ice miners. Only thing I am stating here and now is this: Hulk prices will drop, the market for trit, py and isotopes will plummet within 2 months of the implementations. Mack will be the new mining ship of choice. I am not saying this is a bad thing really, just something that will happen. The requirments are dropping for driving the tech 2 exhumers, fact. That is it.

I am going to enjoy mining in my huge orehold mack, see you guys on the flip side.

Give the Hulk a bonus yield% to Mining drones.

Just fixed 2 problems with one stone.

No, they are not. The requirements for driving the mining barges are dropping. Nowhere in the Devblog does it say anything about changing the skill reqs for Exhumers.