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Incarna/WiS Disappointment

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Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#241 - 2012-07-02 12:44:45 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Team Avatar, maybe just providing meeting areas rather than having the players re-purpose exploration content would be better?


We'd have nothing against people camping out in these structures.

That said making actual gameplay gives us a much better point to add social areas as you note yourself they share a lot of the same technology requirements. So I'd rather hope that we did both. Smile


Please, repurpose exploration! Shoot ship/open can is not exploration. It's just a different form of looting. Having an in-depth, immersive and dangerous method for exploration, archaeology and hacking will be a huge upgrade. Hopefully, the reward will increase for the added time.

I'd rather spend my evening trying to complete a single exploration site that scanning down a dozen which only take a few minutes to complete. But, the money for that one site should be worth it.

_ _
Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#242 - 2012-07-02 12:58:32 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Team Avatar, maybe just providing meeting areas rather than having the players re-purpose exploration content would be better?


We'd have nothing against people camping out in these structures.

That said making actual gameplay gives us a much better point to add social areas as you note yourself they share a lot of the same technology requirements. So I'd rather hope that we did both. Smile


Sounds like there are ways for pilots to die in these structures.
Presumably you have some ideas on what the consequences of death are, and how it will work both gameplay-wise, and lore-wise?
Please share these ideas with us.
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#243 - 2012-07-02 13:06:34 UTC
Pappa Torfi, can you tell us more about how you think the capsuleers will go from ship to structure? Are you thinking our landing clone will die back to our ship clone, if the ship is still there? Are we docking in some manner and actually decanting from our pod? The dust bunnies have their new clone technology, will we get to use some form of that to allow for multiple attempts at a single site. I'm running out of skills that I'm interested in training. Will we get drop suit skills like the mercs?

So many questions coming to mind. This can make EVE so much more interesting for me again. Like a cross over between EVE and Dust.

Oooh, surface based exploration sites on moons and planets.

_ _
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#244 - 2012-07-02 13:09:05 UTC
Shandir wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Team Avatar, maybe just providing meeting areas rather than having the players re-purpose exploration content would be better?


We'd have nothing against people camping out in these structures.

That said making actual gameplay gives us a much better point to add social areas as you note yourself they share a lot of the same technology requirements. So I'd rather hope that we did both. Smile


Sounds like there are ways for pilots to die in these structures.
Presumably you have some ideas on what the consequences of death are, and how it will work both gameplay-wise, and lore-wise?
Please share these ideas with us.


We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way)

Here are some:

1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site.
2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar.
3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones.

These are just a few as there are multiple ways we can address this issue, but the actual designing of these features is obviously still to be started in earnest.

On a little side note, the posts I've seen so far in regards to pvp only mention the actual combat, but the sandbox nature of this WiS gameplay could also allow for strangers in sites to work together, rather than annihilate each other with extreme violence. This could lead to some interesting initial stand offs.

Team Genesis
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#245 - 2012-07-02 13:14:15 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Team Avatar, maybe just providing meeting areas rather than having the players re-purpose exploration content would be better?


We'd have nothing against people camping out in these structures.

That said making actual gameplay gives us a much better point to add social areas as you note yourself they share a lot of the same technology requirements. So I'd rather hope that we did both. Smile


I wonder in what point "actual gameplay" became "dungeon raiding shooter", as i can't recall that anyone asked the players interested on WiS what did they want or expect from it. Question

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#246 - 2012-07-02 13:18:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Rees Noturana
CCP RedDawn wrote:

We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way)

Here are some:

1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site.
2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar.
3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones.

These are just a few as there are multiple ways we can address this issue, but the actual designing of these features is obviously still to be started in earnest.

On a little side note, the posts I've seen so far in regards to pvp only mention the actual combat, but the sandbox nature of this WiS gameplay could also allow for strangers in sites to work together, rather than annihilate each other with extreme violence. This could lead to some interesting initial stand offs.


My vote is for option #2. My pilot clone stays in the capsule and I can activate a landing party clone. I should be able to carry a number of clones so that my chance at a site isn't immediately over but there should be a limit to encourage careful tactics over spamming clones and building giant piles of dead bodies.

Torfi mentioned in the Russian video that it would most likely be our pilot that enters due to our cloning technology. This makes the most sense from a gameplay perspective to me. While developing special landing party characters could be interesting focusing on one character, our current pilot, feels like the best option to me. I am Rees, not Rees plus Bob, Judy and Bubba my landing party 'red shirts'.

Plus, I've already maxed out all the exploration skills. I'm the one that has the knowledge to hack the sites.

Are you thinking that we'll encounter NPCs as well? Will I get to shoot Angel agents and Serpentis drug dealers?

_ _
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#247 - 2012-07-02 13:24:04 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
I wonder in what point "actual gameplay" became "dungeon raiding shooter", as i can't recall that anyone asked the players interested on WiS what did they want or expect from it. Question


Would you rather have just social areas on a station?

This is a nice upgrade to PvE but in typical EVE fashion where you are competing against other players, or possibly cooperating with them (only to betray them at the end).

This could lead to hacking of sovereignty structures as well. Sneak in with cov ops to hack and drop alliance defenses while an offensive fleet moves into position.

How about boarding offline towers to steal them.

CCP is focusing on one aspect to get the mechanics into the game. After that they can expand it to cover many other options.

This sure beats just having a bar in a station to play Slay in.

_ _
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#248 - 2012-07-02 13:24:29 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Shandir wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Team Avatar, maybe just providing meeting areas rather than having the players re-purpose exploration content would be better?


We'd have nothing against people camping out in these structures.

That said making actual gameplay gives us a much better point to add social areas as you note yourself they share a lot of the same technology requirements. So I'd rather hope that we did both. Smile


Sounds like there are ways for pilots to die in these structures.
Presumably you have some ideas on what the consequences of death are, and how it will work both gameplay-wise, and lore-wise?
Please share these ideas with us.


We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way)

Here are some:

1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site.
2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar.
3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones.

These are just a few as there are multiple ways we can address this issue, but the actual designing of these features is obviously still to be started in earnest.

On a little side note, the posts I've seen so far in regards to pvp only mention the actual combat, but the sandbox nature of this WiS gameplay could also allow for strangers in sites to work together, rather than annihilate each other with extreme violence. This could lead to some interesting initial stand offs.



Whilst I'm absolutely alongside the idea that WiS should include the possibility of stabbing each other in the face, I hope that tools with which to make stuff will also be included. Sanboxes need buckets and spades as well as sledgehammers and pickaxes.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
RAP ACTION HERO
#249 - 2012-07-02 13:25:23 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Team Avatar, maybe just providing meeting areas rather than having the players re-purpose exploration content would be better?


We'd have nothing against people camping out in these structures.

That said making actual gameplay gives us a much better point to add social areas as you note yourself they share a lot of the same technology requirements. So I'd rather hope that we did both. Smile


I wonder in what point "actual gameplay" became "dungeon raiding shooter", as i can't recall that anyone asked the players interested on WiS what did they want or expect from it. Question


Team Avatar is prototyping as we speak, but "Meaningful/Actual" sure as hell aint a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a station.

vitoc erryday
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#250 - 2012-07-02 13:25:52 UTC
Rees Noturana wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
I wonder in what point "actual gameplay" became "dungeon raiding shooter", as i can't recall that anyone asked the players interested on WiS what did they want or expect from it. Question


Would you rather have just social areas on a station?



Ishtanchuk has made it pretty clear that yeah, playing e-dressup and drinking e-drinks in an e-bar is exactly what he e-wants from WiS.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#251 - 2012-07-02 13:30:21 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Shandir wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Team Avatar, maybe just providing meeting areas rather than having the players re-purpose exploration content would be better?


We'd have nothing against people camping out in these structures.

That said making actual gameplay gives us a much better point to add social areas as you note yourself they share a lot of the same technology requirements. So I'd rather hope that we did both. Smile


Sounds like there are ways for pilots to die in these structures.
Presumably you have some ideas on what the consequences of death are, and how it will work both gameplay-wise, and lore-wise?
Please share these ideas with us.


We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way)

Here are some:

1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site.
2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar.
3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones.

These are just a few as there are multiple ways we can address this issue, but the actual designing of these features is obviously still to be started in earnest.


I alrady suggested the clone sutff ("drone clones"), and certainly it would open a lot of doors leading to not just a shooter.

CCP RedDawn wrote:
On a little side note, the posts I've seen so far in regards to pvp only mention the actual combat, but the sandbox nature of this WiS gameplay could also allow for strangers in sites to work together, rather than annihilate each other with extreme violence. This could lead to some interesting initial stand offs.


"Sandbox nature" as in Hulkageddon? Blink

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#252 - 2012-07-02 13:31:40 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk has made it pretty clear that yeah, playing e-dressup and drinking e-drinks in an e-bar is exactly what he e-wants from WiS.


If CCP fixed the performance problems and had the resources to build out purely social areas it would add depth to EVE and I would sometimes visit. However, it's extremely obvious that their team would need about 20 times the resources they have available to even consider that.

I would rather having sneaking in exploration sites, hacking in faction warfare and sovereignty sites, and salvaging in ship wrecks.

_ _
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#253 - 2012-07-02 13:32:59 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Shandir wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Team Avatar, maybe just providing meeting areas rather than having the players re-purpose exploration content would be better?


We'd have nothing against people camping out in these structures.

That said making actual gameplay gives us a much better point to add social areas as you note yourself they share a lot of the same technology requirements. So I'd rather hope that we did both. Smile


Sounds like there are ways for pilots to die in these structures.
Presumably you have some ideas on what the consequences of death are, and how it will work both gameplay-wise, and lore-wise?
Please share these ideas with us.


We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way)

Here are some:

1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site.
2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar.
3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones.

These are just a few as there are multiple ways we can address this issue, but the actual designing of these features is obviously still to be started in earnest.

On a little side note, the posts I've seen so far in regards to pvp only mention the actual combat, but the sandbox nature of this WiS gameplay could also allow for strangers in sites to work together, rather than annihilate each other with extreme violence. This could lead to some interesting initial stand offs.


I think the issue here is for option 1: If we die without being in a pod with its brain scanner, why are we not permanently dead?

Also: Any purely social areas would need far far less needed assents in place before being added to the game. I hope, not so much you do them both, but you can do pure social areas first, and much sooner. You can promote it not as an expansion, but a technology test, to see what issues multi-avatar areas have before the actual game play content is released. Also, they will have whatever content we players create. Social interaction is arguably the most important content in the game.

I also hope that a version of the exploration content will be in high sec. Less danger, less reward, but it will allow more players to use it.

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Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#254 - 2012-07-02 13:33:32 UTC
Explorergeddon? Oh noes, someone keeps popping my ships while I'm sneaking around these old Angels sites.

/me pulls out handgun to clone home.

Yep, that sounds like New Eden.

_ _
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#255 - 2012-07-02 13:34:39 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Rees Noturana wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
I wonder in what point "actual gameplay" became "dungeon raiding shooter", as i can't recall that anyone asked the players interested on WiS what did they want or expect from it. Question


Would you rather have just social areas on a station?



Ishtanchuk has made it pretty clear that yeah, playing e-dressup and drinking e-drinks in an e-bar is exactly what he e-wants from WiS.


So one could say that the Fazmarai family wants to destroy Eve?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#256 - 2012-07-02 13:35:16 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
I think the issue here is for option 1: If we die without being in a pod with its brain scanner, why are we not permanently dead?


The dust bunnies have their new cloning technology. I think that opens the door for capsuleers to have a stock of 'landing' clones.

_ _
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#257 - 2012-07-02 13:35:31 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Shandir wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Team Avatar, maybe just providing meeting areas rather than having the players re-purpose exploration content would be better?


We'd have nothing against people camping out in these structures.

That said making actual gameplay gives us a much better point to add social areas as you note yourself they share a lot of the same technology requirements. So I'd rather hope that we did both. Smile


Sounds like there are ways for pilots to die in these structures.
Presumably you have some ideas on what the consequences of death are, and how it will work both gameplay-wise, and lore-wise?
Please share these ideas with us.


We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way)

Here are some:

1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site.
2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar.
3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones.

These are just a few as there are multiple ways we can address this issue, but the actual designing of these features is obviously still to be started in earnest.

On a little side note, the posts I've seen so far in regards to pvp only mention the actual combat, but the sandbox nature of this WiS gameplay could also allow for strangers in sites to work together, rather than annihilate each other with extreme violence. This could lead to some interesting initial stand offs.


I think the issue here is for option 1: If we die without being in a pod with its brain scanner, why are we not permanently dead?

Also: Any purely social areas would need far far less needed assents in place before being added to the game. I hope, not so much you do them both, but you can do pure social areas first, and much sooner. You can promote it not as an expansion, but a technology test, to see what issues multi-avatar areas have before the actual game play content is released. Also, they will have whatever content we players create. Social interaction is arguably the most important content in the game.

I also hope that a version of the exploration content will be in high sec. Less danger, less reward, but it will allow more players to use it.


See: Dust 514 Cloning tech.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#258 - 2012-07-02 13:40:23 UTC
Some answers,

For me WiS is not something that only 0.0 players should benefit from. It should be available to all who wish to participate.
Rewards should be justified though. The more you danger you put yourself in, the more rewards you should reap.

The WiS ecosystem should tie in with FiS gameplay, this shouldn't be some stand-alone gameplay avenue that doesn't effect pilot-based only players. Manufacturing could play a part in this for example.

Death with your avatar (if used) does lead to some interesting 'perma-death' questions. (Who would vote for a EvE hardcore mode?)

Team Genesis
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#259 - 2012-07-02 13:47:38 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Some answers,

For me WiS is not something that only 0.0 players should benefit from. It should be available to all who wish to participate.
Rewards should be justified though. The more you danger you put yourself in, the more rewards you should reap.

The WiS ecosystem should tie in with FiS gameplay, this shouldn't be some stand-alone gameplay avenue that doesn't effect pilot-based only players. Manufacturing could play a part in this for example.

Death with your avatar (if used) does lead to some interesting 'perma-death' questions. (Who would vote for a EvE hardcore mode?)



If WiS Exploration uses a 'Redshirt' model, then hardcore mode would be just fine.

Otherwise we'll just use that magic DUST tech tyvm.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#260 - 2012-07-02 13:48:29 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Death with your avatar (if used) does lead to some interesting 'perma-death' questions. (Who would vote for a EvE hardcore mode?)


I'm already too attached to my pilots. If you implement crews and landing parties then hardcore death would be fine -- for them. Our immortal pilot would allow for longevity in relationships with others. My pilot skills could then give my crew bonuses to exploration stuff.

_ _