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Incarna/WiS Disappointment

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Angelo Doelman
Bacon Diplomacy Project
#141 - 2012-06-28 21:11:06 UTC
Given that CCP collects telemetry data on how we configure our clients for purposes of determining whether features should be removed in future iterations.. graphic options and wide-screen immediately come to mind, I would like to know what percentage of clients have opted out of the station environment.
Price Check Aisle3
#142 - 2012-06-28 21:26:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Price Check Aisle3
Angelo Doelman wrote:
Given that CCP collects telemetry data on how we configure our clients for purposes of determining whether features should be removed in future iterations.. graphic options and wide-screen immediately come to mind, I would like to know what percentage of clients have opted out of the station environment.

What do you mean by "opt-out"? If you mean by not using it, then yeah, I doubt a lot of people do because it's pretty pointless right now (unless you want to change your portrait or something). OTOH, if you want to spin your ship you have to enable the station environments IIRC. Maybe I've missed a change in one of the recent patches?

Back when it was mandatory I rarely bothered to move my guy around because, well, why? Everything I needed to do was still on my screen (thankfully CCP saw fit to leave the interface alone, how sucky would that have been to walk to the couch in order to use the market...) The same thing applies now, it's basically a useless tech demo in this game.
  • Karl Hobb IATS
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2012-06-28 21:45:17 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
This is the most exciting thing I've heard in ... ever? I'm glad to see they have some actual gameplay underway with Incarna. It's a very impressive engine; I hate to see it being used solely for staring at the door.


Just to be totally clear this has so far been prototype work and we need management support to move further on into the production of it. That lots of players and developers are actually quite excited about it is obviously a big plus point in that regard.


In that case, consider this post a registration of my excitement. Sounds very interesting.
Atheos Aristoi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#144 - 2012-06-28 21:49:23 UTC
One can only wonder how good your "friends" are once the group of you discover a priceless relic. I imagine it looking like the end scene from the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly or as I call it the Amarr, the Gallente, and the Minmatar.
CCP t0rfifrans
C C P
C C P Alliance
#145 - 2012-06-28 22:31:22 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
And please ccp dev When you'll start to work on WiS again and why not abordeable structures Please just do the Work Don't have To talk or say it to CSM anyway just do the job put it in Sisi and S.... up to avoid the mess of the last time ....


The CSM were actually given a live demo of the prototype running, showing several devs from Team Avatar venturing into an abandoned station, getting killed trying to get loot. They thought it was pretty cool.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#146 - 2012-06-28 22:43:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
This look promising.

One year + for extension of exploration from space ships to stations is much better than 5 years for no game play toothless vampires we have now.

I can stand by this.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Equto
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#147 - 2012-06-28 23:15:47 UTC
The largest problem I had was that they showed a "working" demo at 2008 fanfest, and then apparently scraped everything and gave us what we have now. It just felt like being spit in the face.
CCP t0rfifrans
C C P
C C P Alliance
#148 - 2012-06-28 23:32:15 UTC
Equto wrote:
The largest problem I had was that they showed a "working" demo at 2008 fanfest, and then apparently scraped everything and gave us what we have now. It just felt like being spit in the face.

Yeah, it was basically put on hold to do Apocrypha and once we started again, the tech had gone stale and we started from scratch, plus the tech used at fanfest was prototyping code, which didn't scale and wasn't built for a production environment
Equto
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#149 - 2012-06-28 23:58:26 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Equto wrote:
The largest problem I had was that they showed a "working" demo at 2008 fanfest, and then apparently scraped everything and gave us what we have now. It just felt like being spit in the face.

Yeah, it was basically put on hold to do Apocrypha and once we started again, the tech had gone stale and we started from scratch, plus the tech used at fanfest was prototyping code, which didn't scale and wasn't built for a production environment

I kindof expected that answer. I have wrote a few websites that didn't "scale" well either. Showing people is one thing, making it work is another.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#150 - 2012-06-29 01:31:50 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Boober Fraggle wrote:
Did you work for CCP in 2008?


Nope. I started working here in December 2010 so have been at the company a little over 18 months.

Boober Fraggle wrote:
I ask because that was the first time I was told "soon" on WiS.

I understand that you are working on the project currently, so I accept your enthusiasm.

So I have to ask, in all seriousness, would you be exited about it if the tables were turned and you had been waiting 4 years?

I sincerely desire a response to that, but thank you for your time either way.


I'm not saying soon. I'm saying we're working on a prototype and that it is down to the EVE Project Management group, the executives and investors as to what actually happens to make this a reality. To emphasis what that means, if we were green-lit to continue tomorrow and we could staff it as planned without impacting FiS development I doubt players would be running through these structures on TQ for over 12 months. I'd sincerely like to get any in-development work into the hands of the players early though and that must be part of any pre-production and production plans we make. It's definitely not soon however much I wish it could be. Sad

The basic point in terms of timescale is that It's not an expansion, it's making another game to sit inside the EVE universe. I think that's a fact that has not been addressed in the past and why WiS has always been a unfulfilled wish on the part of CCP. It's not on the scale of DUST514 or World of Darkness but it is more significant in terms of effort required on technology and gameplay development than any previous EVE expansion.

What we've have done is demonstrate you can have fun avatar gameplay that would work inside the EVE universe and provided a plan and some estimates on the technology and resources required to take the prototype forward.

I like though that people are typically positive about WiS despite the long time we've been banging that particular drum.


I have always been extremely postive about the possibilities WiS could bring to EVE; there are almost too many to list. But to my mind the biggest one is related to EVE's age. At this stage it is evident that it is extremely developmentally expensive and conceptually difficult to add new things to do to EVE. Adding what is essentially a new platform into the EVE experience is, as you say, also developmentally expensive but it offers the potentiality of then quickly and easily (relatively speaking) adding a whole lot more new things to do.

I'm extremely pleased to see that you make a point of saying "I'd sincerely like to get any in-development work into the hands of the players early though and that must be part of any pre-production and production plans we make". Can I also make a plea that you deeply consider the possibility of emphasizing the provision of tools over content. Almost everything that's exceptional about EVE can be described as "CCP provided us tools to interact with each other in a new way". Almost everything that's gone wrong with EVE can be described as "CCP provided content to consume".

(The exception is of course the new nebulae ♥)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#151 - 2012-06-29 01:35:10 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I must ask that, Please for the love of God. Keep the true nature of EvE.

And let us shoot our own team members in the backSmile


This has already been happening in our playtests. Blink


And let me guess, they will get away with it for free, right? Roll


No CONCORD in stations!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Pipa Porto
#152 - 2012-06-29 01:36:31 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

I'm extremely pleased to see that you make a point of saying "I'd sincerely like to get any in-development work into the hands of the players early though and that must be part of any pre-production and production plans we make". Can I also make a plea that you deeply consider the possibility of emphasizing the provision of tools over content. Almost everything that's exceptional about EVE can be described as "CCP provided us tools to interact with each other in a new way". Almost everything that's gone wrong with EVE can be described as "CCP provided content to consume".

(The exception is of course the new nebulae ♥)


To me that means give us a blank room with a knife in the middle.

Well, the room's not all that important, but give us a knife. The rest will surely follow.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#153 - 2012-06-29 01:50:01 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

I'm extremely pleased to see that you make a point of saying "I'd sincerely like to get any in-development work into the hands of the players early though and that must be part of any pre-production and production plans we make". Can I also make a plea that you deeply consider the possibility of emphasizing the provision of tools over content. Almost everything that's exceptional about EVE can be described as "CCP provided us tools to interact with each other in a new way". Almost everything that's gone wrong with EVE can be described as "CCP provided content to consume".

(The exception is of course the new nebulae ♥)


To me that means give us a blank room with a knife in the middle.

Well, the room's not all that important, but give us a knife. The rest will surely follow.


If they gave us the tools, I'm pretty sure that the players would be happy to design the interiors of their own outposts with a level of detail and originality that it would be simply impractical to pay for.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#154 - 2012-06-29 02:01:47 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
This is the most exciting thing I've heard in ... ever? I'm glad to see they have some actual gameplay underway with Incarna. It's a very impressive engine; I hate to see it being used solely for staring at the door.


Just to be totally clear this has so far been prototype work and we need management support to move further on into the production of it. That lots of players and developers are actually quite excited about it is obviously a big plus point in that regard.


In other words, just another WIS carrot dangled before the players.
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2012-06-29 02:03:38 UTC
I have a weird feeling WIS is not a Case of alot of the art assests are there, just the game play isn't

Looking at the demo was interesting. but sorta reminded me of Mine Craft.
Would be funny if an engine could be run to convert mind craft layout to instant eve dungeon....lol
There is alot to say about when you can do a "What if when this happens" play and be able to change it on the fly.
After all the graphics may bring the people in, but it is the game play that holds onto the people.

I like this new planned approach CCP is working on bringing emergent game play from Walking in Stations to Walking in Space.
Though I still hope for the Establishments to be reality as it should be a way for player to build Consumable content for other players.

I am going to assume that since the new technology is scalable, there won't be a complete new revamp of the WIS (Walking in Space)

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Pipa Porto
#156 - 2012-06-29 02:07:28 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

I'm extremely pleased to see that you make a point of saying "I'd sincerely like to get any in-development work into the hands of the players early though and that must be part of any pre-production and production plans we make". Can I also make a plea that you deeply consider the possibility of emphasizing the provision of tools over content. Almost everything that's exceptional about EVE can be described as "CCP provided us tools to interact with each other in a new way". Almost everything that's gone wrong with EVE can be described as "CCP provided content to consume".

(The exception is of course the new nebulae ♥)


To me that means give us a blank room with a knife in the middle.

Well, the room's not all that important, but give us a knife. The rest will surely follow.


If they gave us the tools, I'm pretty sure that the players would be happy to design the interiors of their own outposts with a level of detail and originality that it would be simply impractical to pay for.


That, and I want to be sure that the knife is there from the beginning, not a Soon™ item. I'm fine with a game without pretty graphics (I play on a 4 year old MBP, so I can hear the coughs and sputters if I want to turn up the graphics), I just want to be sure that the soul of EvE is there from the get go.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#157 - 2012-06-29 02:15:38 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
This is the most exciting thing I've heard in ... ever? I'm glad to see they have some actual gameplay underway with Incarna. It's a very impressive engine; I hate to see it being used solely for staring at the door.


Just to be totally clear this has so far been prototype work and we need management support to move further on into the production of it. That lots of players and developers are actually quite excited about it is obviously a big plus point in that regard.


In other words, just another WIS carrot dangled before the players.


You'd prefer him to lie? Or not tell us anything about what they've been doing?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#158 - 2012-06-29 02:32:51 UTC
People didn't quit because of CQ.

It's just a convenient excuse for the handful of people who don't want to see EVE evolve. There a LOT of people who rarely log in, or only log in long enough to update market orders and production stuff, and then log out because they have nothing else to do. WiS would expand the game.

One of its biggest hurdles to attracting new players is the fact that you're a spaceship. FiS is not the entirety of CCP's vision of EVE. Some of you need to suck it up and quit acting like a bunch of douchebag children who expects CCP to do only what they demand.

I wish CCP would just do the damn thing and let the people who don't like it ******* leave. WiS will bring in more people to EVE then they would lose.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#159 - 2012-06-29 02:59:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
This is the most exciting thing I've heard in ... ever? I'm glad to see they have some actual gameplay underway with Incarna. It's a very impressive engine; I hate to see it being used solely for staring at the door.


Just to be totally clear this has so far been prototype work and we need management support to move further on into the production of it. That lots of players and developers are actually quite excited about it is obviously a big plus point in that regard.


In other words, just another WIS carrot dangled before the players.


You'd prefer him to lie? Or not tell us anything about what they've been doing?


Watch what they do, not what they say.
RAP ACTION HERO
#160 - 2012-06-29 03:21:18 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
People didn't quit because of CQ.

It's just a convenient excuse for the handful of people who don't want to see EVE evolve. There a LOT of people who rarely log in, or only log in long enough to update market orders and production stuff, and then log out because they have nothing else to do. WiS would expand the game.

One of its biggest hurdles to attracting new players is the fact that you're a spaceship. FiS is not the entirety of CCP's vision of EVE. Some of you need to suck it up and quit acting like a bunch of douchebag children who expects CCP to do only what they demand.

I wish CCP would just do the damn thing and let the people who don't like it ******* leave. WiS will bring in more people to EVE then they would lose.


evolve into a second life freakshow? i hope not

vitoc erryday