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Incarna/WiS Disappointment

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Morganta
The Greater Goon
#41 - 2012-06-28 04:10:05 UTC
I think if they had the resources to spare without hurting fis, they should have done a companion game (available on the same platforms) that included WiS, almost like JTL was a totally different game attached to SWG.

A complex system of stations and planetside action.
pretty much dust with WiS attached to that side, and the door being our gateway to travel between the 2 game worlds

fps type pvp battles, planetary or stationside pve missions and games, group activity areas, arenas

it could have been great, but instead we got a division of focus with the fairly insane idea to try and develop and market a vampire barbie game on the downside of the current vampire craze, now if it arrives it will be more niche than eve is.

and dust the real chance to tie it all together is for console only.

god my head hurts
Pipa Porto
#42 - 2012-06-28 04:22:10 UTC
Morganta wrote:

it could have been great, but instead we got a division of focus with the fairly insane idea to try and develop and market a vampire barbie game on the downside of the current vampire craze, now if it arrives it will be more niche than eve is.


1) At least White Wolf should stay alive for a while (IIRC it wasn't doing so hot on it's own), so CCP's vampire fetish isn't a total loss.

2) I want to start quelling the rumor that the 3rd biggest paid Western MMO (4th biggest paid worldwide) is a niche game.
EvE maintains the illusion of being a niche game because the top 2 games in competition are run by Blizzard (Jesus) and LucasFilm(owner of the biggest Multimedia franchise around), respectively.


Quote:

and dust the real chance to tie it all together is for console only.


Kind of has to be. FPSes that allow Console v PC to go head to head usually end up with a wholesale slaughter of Console players.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
#43 - 2012-06-28 04:39:13 UTC
Delen Ormand wrote:
My completely awesome idea:

Develop the WiS stuff it as a new game. Have all kinds of cool stuff in stations - bars, gambling, let us shoot, talk and otherwise interact with each other. With enough depth, it could even be a whole MMO in itself.

Then, in a similar way to Dust, tie it all into Eve. If we travel between stations, we buy passage on an Eve player's ship. Let us hire Dust players to take planets for us, or maybe to provide muscle for our station-based crime syndicate.

I would love to see this sort of "integrated but seperate" idea develop to the point where I, playing WiS Online, could hire Eve players to transport my Dust-player mercenaries to the station owned by my rival in order for them to assault his HQ, creating enough of a distraction for my friend's spy character to hack my rival's computers and download his most advanced blueprints or siphon off cash.


Others have pitched this idea which I think would make sense. It would be cool if Dust and EVE players could meet in the WiS environment. Someone else mentioned that WiS should be free to play, which would be a great gateway into EVE.
RAP ACTION HERO
#44 - 2012-06-28 05:28:26 UTC
i think wis should be quarantined in the china server

vitoc erryday
Shian Yang
#45 - 2012-06-28 05:36:51 UTC
Delen Ormand wrote:
My completely awesome idea:

Develop the WiS stuff it as a new game. Have all kinds of cool stuff in stations - bars, gambling, let us shoot, talk and otherwise interact with each other. With enough depth, it could even be a whole MMO in itself.

Then, in a similar way to Dust, tie it all into Eve. If we travel between stations, we buy passage on an Eve player's ship. Let us hire Dust players to take planets for us, or maybe to provide muscle for our station-based crime syndicate.

I would love to see this sort of "integrated but seperate" idea develop to the point where I, playing WiS Online, could hire Eve players to transport my Dust-player mercenaries to the station owned by my rival in order for them to assault his HQ, creating enough of a distraction for my friend's spy character to hack my rival's computers and download his most advanced blueprints or siphon off cash.


Greetings capsuleer,

It was suggested before. It was partially supported, but the rabidly fanatical "WiS or death" capsuleers did not like the idea. I supported it, simply because it meant capsuleers and the further investment in New Eden was separate.

Regards,

Shian Yang
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-06-28 05:48:22 UTC
I'm with you 100%... BUT

"and it turned out that a bunch of players had a hissy-fit when Incarna was released, which forced CCP to take a different direction, thus leaving the whole thing as an unfinished mess"

I want to fix this for you

"and it turned out that a bunch of players had a hissy-fit when Incarna was released becuase it was an unfinished mess with bad direction"

you've got it backwards, what you have now, WAS the plan, te players complains becuase it was terrible direction , they didn't change direction because of the players.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2012-06-28 05:49:50 UTC
Celeste Taylor wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:
My completely awesome idea:

Develop the WiS stuff it as a new game. Have all kinds of cool stuff in stations - bars, gambling, let us shoot, talk and otherwise interact with each other. With enough depth, it could even be a whole MMO in itself.

Then, in a similar way to Dust, tie it all into Eve. If we travel between stations, we buy passage on an Eve player's ship. Let us hire Dust players to take planets for us, or maybe to provide muscle for our station-based crime syndicate.

I would love to see this sort of "integrated but seperate" idea develop to the point where I, playing WiS Online, could hire Eve players to transport my Dust-player mercenaries to the station owned by my rival in order for them to assault his HQ, creating enough of a distraction for my friend's spy character to hack my rival's computers and download his most advanced blueprints or siphon off cash.


Others have pitched this idea which I think would make sense. It would be cool if Dust and EVE players could meet in the WiS environment. Someone else mentioned that WiS should be free to play, which would be a great gateway into EVE.


yeah WiS as a standalone game that dust and eve COULD use, but WiS wouldn't have to play either game is the right direction. It would get players into both eve and dust 514, as the stations would have windows showing eve spaceship they can't fly, and dust battles on the planets.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-06-28 06:06:39 UTC
Vaal Erit wrote:
By a 'bunch of players' you mean tens of thousands of accounts which caused the first ever slump in subs in EVEs existence that lost CCP millions of dollars and a significant decrease in CCP staff which is why we now have to wait over a week for a GM response.

Sorry but the players have spoken: WIS is cool, but not at the expense of the rest of EVE.

I dunno where the OP is getting his information, but it is a fact that WIS lost CCP millions of dollars while expansions focused on improving the base game and the war themed expansion gained CCP those millions back.


And I suppose you have quantifiable data to back up your nonsensical ramblings? Can you show a proof in numbers, that your so called "Jita Riot/unsubbing accounts" had any TANGIBLE ADVERSE IMPACT on CCP's financials? I assume you had inside information into the number of subscribers, financial statements, and etc.?

Hundreds of those who expressed their intent to unsub, does not translate to 100% of them actually unsubbing. In addition, those who actively use forum, is still a small number, relative to the total number of subscribers in EVE Online.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-06-28 06:28:14 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
you've got it backwards, what you have now, WAS the plan, te players complains becuase it was terrible direction , they didn't change direction because of the players.


The 'plan' was to force RMT-monocles down our throats on top of our subscription fees so that senior management could go and buy themselves some $1000 jeans, with actual in-game content a distant afterthought. Hence Incarna.

CCP changed direction because the playerbase collectively said 'yeah, **** that' and the lost revenue from mass-unsubs vastly outstripped the additional income from the NeX store.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-06-28 06:35:34 UTC
The Antiquarian wrote:
And I suppose you have quantifiable data to back up your nonsensical ramblings? Can you show a proof in numbers, that your so called "Jita Riot/unsubbing accounts" had any TANGIBLE ADVERSE IMPACT on CCP's financials? I assume you had inside information into the number of subscribers, financial statements, and etc.?

Hundreds of those who expressed their intent to unsub, does not translate to 100% of them actually unsubbing. In addition, those who actively use forum, is still a small number, relative to the total number of subscribers in EVE Online.


To the best of my knowledge CCP haven't yet released concrete numbers on the amount of unsubs that happened over last summer, no. 'Tens of thousands' is, however, the best estimate we have.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Pipa Porto
#51 - 2012-06-28 06:44:53 UTC
The Antiquarian wrote:
Vaal Erit wrote:
By a 'bunch of players' you mean tens of thousands of accounts which caused the first ever slump in subs in EVEs existence that lost CCP millions of dollars and a significant decrease in CCP staff which is why we now have to wait over a week for a GM response.

Sorry but the players have spoken: WIS is cool, but not at the expense of the rest of EVE.

I dunno where the OP is getting his information, but it is a fact that WIS lost CCP millions of dollars while expansions focused on improving the base game and the war themed expansion gained CCP those millions back.


And I suppose you have quantifiable data to back up your nonsensical ramblings? Can you show a proof in numbers, that your so called "Jita Riot/unsubbing accounts" had any TANGIBLE ADVERSE IMPACT on CCP's financials? I assume you had inside information into the number of subscribers, financial statements, and etc.?

Hundreds of those who expressed their intent to unsub, does not translate to 100% of them actually unsubbing. In addition, those who actively use forum, is still a small number, relative to the total number of subscribers in EVE Online.


http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

See the line of Blue Circles? At the end of Q2 2011 it was about 375k. By halfway through Q4 2011 it was below 350k.

That's 25 thousand Subs gone because of Incarna.


http://mmodata.blogspot.com/search/label/Accuracy%20and%20abbreviations

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#52 - 2012-06-28 07:20:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
Frankly, I have little to no interest in spaceship game - because spaceships are just overcomplicated metal cans which can only shoot each other and meteorites for ore without any social interactions. That is why my accounts are in coma for like 8-10 months per year.

What I am interesting in is a non-sucky sci-fi sandbox game with avatars, crafting, economy - and there is nothing like that on the market. CCP/EVE could take this niche single-handedly having ready to use economy and crafting system.

OP is correct - WiS may boost EVE by tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of new players and CCPs income by millions. While developing spaships can only prevent exodus of existing player base and maybe return some older players.

TL;DR Develop WiS already, it will be profitable if done right.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#53 - 2012-06-28 07:42:55 UTC
Vaal Erit wrote:
By a 'bunch of players' you mean tens of thousands of accounts which caused the first ever slump in subs in EVEs existence that lost CCP millions of dollars and a significant decrease in CCP staff which is why we now have to wait over a week for a GM response.

Sorry but the players have spoken: WIS is cool, but not at the expense of the rest of EVE.

I dunno where the OP is getting his information, but it is a fact that WIS lost CCP millions of dollars while expansions focused on improving the base game and the war themed expansion gained CCP those millions back.


More like a couple of hundred with a **** ton of alt accounts.
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2012-06-28 07:51:07 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Serious question: why are you not doing these things in Second Life or some other such 'social gameplay' environment?


Because I want to play with spaceships too. Why can't I do both? I have friends in this game, I don't have friends who play WoW or Second Life.



If they're not doing those things in other games now, why do you think they'd join you if those things came to EvE?


Why don't you stop trying to impose your totally thick blinders on miners, hi sec players AND now also about WiS?

WiS is not a bad thing per se, if they actually implemented "maps" with meaningful shops and stuff to do a la Mass Effect EvE would only have gained in immersion.

CCP did put all the possible effort in making it an useless waste of developers man years but it does not mean that done right is not a bad thing per se.
Pipa Porto
#55 - 2012-06-28 07:55:04 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Vaal Erit wrote:
By a 'bunch of players' you mean tens of thousands of accounts which caused the first ever slump in subs in EVEs existence that lost CCP millions of dollars and a significant decrease in CCP staff which is why we now have to wait over a week for a GM response.

Sorry but the players have spoken: WIS is cool, but not at the expense of the rest of EVE.

I dunno where the OP is getting his information, but it is a fact that WIS lost CCP millions of dollars while expansions focused on improving the base game and the war themed expansion gained CCP those millions back.


More like a couple of hundred with a **** ton of alt accounts.


Either way hurts CCP the exact same amount. Though I doubt a couple hundred people have 25,000 accounts.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
VanDam
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-06-28 08:13:15 UTC
I was also taking a break when players had a 'hissy fit' following Incarna. I am glad they did and couldn't care less if WiS was never touched again, it doesn't interest me at all.

Maybe you should ask yourself this. If that many players protested over the planned game progression at the time to cause CCP to completely change an 18 month+ development strategy, what makes you think it has any place in this game?

I reckon the vast majority of people, given the outrage and negative reaction following Incarna, do not even have the WiS environment turned on. I know I don't, and it isn't because I can't run it either.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#57 - 2012-06-28 08:28:28 UTC
I want more WiS and i Want abordeable structures i want to play DUST in the space , that all ,

BECAUSE I'm a person who pilot a SHip i 'am NOT A SHIP ....

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Itis Zhellin
#58 - 2012-06-28 09:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Itis Zhellin
this
Pix Severus wrote:
...

A new player to the game would question: "Why such an involved 3D character creation process when there's nothing in-game to actually DO with said creation?"
...

and ...
Irya Boone wrote:
I want more WiS and i Want abordeable structures i want to play DUST in the space , that all ,

BECAUSE I'm a person who pilot a SHip i 'am NOT A SHIP ....

this.

When I started to play EVE I was very excited about the character creator, one of the best on the market. Minutes later I wanted to open a petition about the bugged door that would not let me leave my room. Hours later I realized that actually I'm a prisoner. And no, thats not my room... thats my prison cell and I will never be able to get out.

And that's because I'm not even a human..... actually in EVE I role play a space ship nor a cylon. I'm a Velator, I'm an Iteron and I might be someday a Titan. But never a person, a human being. But I can dream about, I already have a picture about how I would like to look like.

Until then I will fly around in a empty and dark space having different shapes and colors and eventually I will bombard real humans from the orbit. No wonder why this game is so cruel most of the times.. machines have no soul.
Lilliana Stelles
#59 - 2012-06-28 09:17:09 UTC
I enjoy seeing threads like this from time to time. I must confess that I'd honestly not mind them focusing more on WiS. Sure, people got mad about the lack of constant FiS patches.... but people who need constant patches to "balance" out their game can go play WoW for all I care.

One of the big draws for me, to Eve, is immersion, plain and simple. I like everything to be thematic, and to have a certain feel to it. The tiny captain's quarters hurts the experience... of course, not emerging naked and covered in goo hurts the experience even more, though I doubt we'll ever see that change with the game's current rating.

Anyways, +1 for one day seeing some sort of WiS. Though I think we'll probably see it in Dust before in Eve. Check out some of the E3/fanfest gameplay videos. The "lobby" is very much a simplified WiS. Perhaps one day Eve players will be able to join Dust players in that very same lobby, who knows.

Not a forum alt. 
CCP Bayesian
#60 - 2012-06-28 11:30:38 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Supposedly there is a "Team Avatar" (5 people) working on something, and a Dev blog about it that is finished, but its publishing got delayed by the UI mess.

The few Dev comments we have gotten is it will involve cooperative game play in a hostile environment. Something like we saw in one of the trailers with people in space suits exploring ruins. I presume part of the "cooperative" part is having protection so your ship does not get stolen while you are walking about.


This is still en-route and I'm currently trying to unclog the pipes that are holding the dev blog up. It's been delayed for so long now I'm going to update the pictures on it to something that's more representative of the current state of things!

You're correct though the gameplay we've been prototyping is based around cooperative gameplay in a hazardous environment. You'd be cooperating both in space and in the structure you were all walking around in though and there would still be the potential for conflict with other people in the structures you are exploring.

We're pretty excited about what we've come up with internally.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter