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Paving the way to the next nerf: hulks
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Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#181 - 2012-06-25 17:53:45 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Mingja wrote:
Quote:
or just swap ship and **** the rats like i do.
to be honest the erratic spawns are the worst part about belt spawns. often i can go an hour between spawns, other times i get 1 cycle before the rats come back.

edit; case in point, i just killed rats, docked my ship, undocked in my hulk, as soon as i get back to the belts, third set of rats in under 20 mins. irony is, this is probably more isk/hr than 20 mins uninterrupted mining.


Well, I use combat drones to kill'em. If this isn't possible after those changes because my hulk blows up before I can kill them, I could get used to it and take the yield-hit to switch to a more tanky ship instead.



the woes of being a new player; my drone skills are terribad.



If you are a miner, and especially if you are a solo miner, get those drone skills up asap! They really do make that much of a difference.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Dave Stark
#182 - 2012-06-25 21:54:42 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Mingja wrote:
Quote:
or just swap ship and **** the rats like i do.
to be honest the erratic spawns are the worst part about belt spawns. often i can go an hour between spawns, other times i get 1 cycle before the rats come back.

edit; case in point, i just killed rats, docked my ship, undocked in my hulk, as soon as i get back to the belts, third set of rats in under 20 mins. irony is, this is probably more isk/hr than 20 mins uninterrupted mining.


Well, I use combat drones to kill'em. If this isn't possible after those changes because my hulk blows up before I can kill them, I could get used to it and take the yield-hit to switch to a more tanky ship instead.



the woes of being a new player; my drone skills are terribad.



If you are a miner, and especially if you are a solo miner, get those drone skills up asap! They really do make that much of a difference.


when you can't tank a triple BS spawn, your drone skills mean less than how many pokemon cards you had as a kid.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#183 - 2012-06-25 21:57:42 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Mingja wrote:
Quote:
or just swap ship and **** the rats like i do.
to be honest the erratic spawns are the worst part about belt spawns. often i can go an hour between spawns, other times i get 1 cycle before the rats come back.

edit; case in point, i just killed rats, docked my ship, undocked in my hulk, as soon as i get back to the belts, third set of rats in under 20 mins. irony is, this is probably more isk/hr than 20 mins uninterrupted mining.


Well, I use combat drones to kill'em. If this isn't possible after those changes because my hulk blows up before I can kill them, I could get used to it and take the yield-hit to switch to a more tanky ship instead.



the woes of being a new player; my drone skills are terribad.



If you are a miner, and especially if you are a solo miner, get those drone skills up asap! They really do make that much of a difference.


when you can't tank a triple BS spawn, your drone skills mean less than how many pokemon cards you had as a kid.


There are more than just pew pew drones out there you can get. If you are mining areas with triple BS spawns, you need back up anyway, or an alt. But even so, ecms, webbers, or even just the aggro being on said drones enables you to get yourself out of there. My high opinion of drones still stands. ;)

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#184 - 2012-06-25 22:26:12 UTC
If your solo mining with one account in nullsec you need to go back to empire. In null you need a second account to tank the belts with while your miner mines, it is possible to get a very expensive deadspace fit to tank the bs rats as a hulk but its just not worth the time. Alot of people use Domis, abaddons, Drakes, ect to belt tank while they mine. Most of my miners have an account dedicated to belt tanking. If you think that swapping to a pve ship every time rats spawn is viable you need to rethink your strat.
Dave Stark
#185 - 2012-06-25 22:37:39 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:


There are more than just pew pew drones out there you can get. If you are mining areas with triple BS spawns, you need back up anyway, or an alt. But even so, ecms, webbers, or even just the aggro being on said drones enables you to get yourself out of there. My high opinion of drones still stands. ;)


to be fair, i did notice the very short training time on light shield rep drones, so i figured i'd waste 6 hours or so and see if they're any help.
Dave Stark
#186 - 2012-06-25 22:38:33 UTC
Zetaomega333 wrote:
If your solo mining with one account in nullsec you need to go back to empire. In null you need a second account to tank the belts with while your miner mines, it is possible to get a very expensive deadspace fit to tank the bs rats as a hulk but its just not worth the time. Alot of people use Domis, abaddons, Drakes, ect to belt tank while they mine. Most of my miners have an account dedicated to belt tanking. If you think that swapping to a pve ship every time rats spawn is viable you need to rethink your strat.


i only swap ships when there isn't a fleet up with bonuses and swarms of drones from a million hulks. which ain't all that often but sometimes happens.
Steve Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#187 - 2012-06-25 23:56:44 UTC
ok

1 this is not realy live yet even on the test server.

2 this is CCP, they can and will BLEEEP up something completly other than what we are talking about.

3 the plan currently seems to be to replace the Racial mining Frigates with ORE mining frigates, and MAYBE replace the racial mining cruisers with another ORE ship if not simply just replace the Racial mining cruisers with nothing

4 from what I am seeing I kind of expect the folowing.
4a at least one mining highslot to the Procurer/Skiff, and maybee a med slot
4b the Big ass orebay on the Retriever/Mackinaw
4c if they decide to buff it the Covetor/hulk to to be the high yeild king, Ironicaly the best way to do it is to slap on a 4th mining laser hardpoint.

5 given the push on new modules/rigs I suspect that some of the next modules are going to be ones that provide bonuses for specialisations
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#188 - 2012-06-26 02:45:28 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Zetaomega333 wrote:
If your solo mining with one account in nullsec you need to go back to empire. In null you need a second account to tank the belts with while your miner mines, it is possible to get a very expensive deadspace fit to tank the bs rats as a hulk but its just not worth the time. Alot of people use Domis, abaddons, Drakes, ect to belt tank while they mine. Most of my miners have an account dedicated to belt tanking. If you think that swapping to a pve ship every time rats spawn is viable you need to rethink your strat.


i only swap ships when there isn't a fleet up with bonuses and swarms of drones from a million hulks. which ain't all that often but sometimes happens.



Dunno what fail ops your on but everyone we do we have a belt tank as well.
Dave Stark
#189 - 2012-06-26 07:18:23 UTC
Zetaomega333 wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Zetaomega333 wrote:
If your solo mining with one account in nullsec you need to go back to empire. In null you need a second account to tank the belts with while your miner mines, it is possible to get a very expensive deadspace fit to tank the bs rats as a hulk but its just not worth the time. Alot of people use Domis, abaddons, Drakes, ect to belt tank while they mine. Most of my miners have an account dedicated to belt tanking. If you think that swapping to a pve ship every time rats spawn is viable you need to rethink your strat.


i only swap ships when there isn't a fleet up with bonuses and swarms of drones from a million hulks. which ain't all that often but sometimes happens.



Dunno what fail ops your on but everyone we do we have a belt tank as well.


all i do is mine, like 24/7. there isn't always a mining op going on so i do my own solo mining. i just mine more than is healthy for any sane person.
Mingja
Perkone
Caldari State
#190 - 2012-06-26 11:34:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mingja
Dave stark wrote:
Zetaomega333 wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Zetaomega333 wrote:
If your solo mining with one account in nullsec you need to go back to empire. In null you need a second account to tank the belts with while your miner mines, it is possible to get a very expensive deadspace fit to tank the bs rats as a hulk but its just not worth the time. Alot of people use Domis, abaddons, Drakes, ect to belt tank while they mine. Most of my miners have an account dedicated to belt tanking. If you think that swapping to a pve ship every time rats spawn is viable you need to rethink your strat.


i only swap ships when there isn't a fleet up with bonuses and swarms of drones from a million hulks. which ain't all that often but sometimes happens.



Dunno what fail ops your on but everyone we do we have a belt tank as well.


all i do is mine, like 24/7. there isn't always a mining op going on so i do my own solo mining. i just mine more than is healthy for any sane person.


Sane person? :D

Mining is a complete valid type of gameplay. It's one of the most active (hardcore-trading is the only thing which might top it) professions at all if you have a good fleet booster active (don't even mention lazy men's pathetic orca-boosts please) and atleast 2 skilled Hulks. (more is better) ;) Despite what everyone and their mom's arses are saying.
Star Runner
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#191 - 2012-06-27 12:14:14 UTC
What will be interesting to see how these changes affect the prices of the ships. If the price gap between the covetor and the hulk closes, the fact that the hulk no longer has a super strong edge in yield won't be that big of a deal. If prices don't change, that is going to cause complaints. A massive difference in price will be tolerated only as long as the difference can be justified, and the proposed changes may make it very hard to sell hulks because they just aren't worth the extra expense.
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#192 - 2012-06-27 12:26:32 UTC
Star Runner wrote:
What will be interesting to see how these changes affect the prices of the ships. If the price gap between the covetor and the hulk closes, the fact that the hulk no longer has a super strong edge in yield won't be that big of a deal. If prices don't change, that is going to cause complaints. A massive difference in price will be tolerated only as long as the difference can be justified, and the proposed changes may make it very hard to sell hulks because they just aren't worth the extra expense.


The price isn't really set by game stats, it's set by the tech cartels. You can't go about balancing ship performance based on how high the market drives certain commodities. You could make the Hulk's performance vs the Covetor match its price differential today, and by tomorrow the bang per buck ratio would be different again.
Star Runner
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#193 - 2012-06-27 12:34:17 UTC
Salo Aldeland wrote:
Star Runner wrote:
What will be interesting to see how these changes affect the prices of the ships. If the price gap between the covetor and the hulk closes, the fact that the hulk no longer has a super strong edge in yield won't be that big of a deal. If prices don't change, that is going to cause complaints. A massive difference in price will be tolerated only as long as the difference can be justified, and the proposed changes may make it very hard to sell hulks because they just aren't worth the extra expense.


The price isn't really set by game stats, it's set by the tech cartels. You can't go about balancing ship performance based on how high the market drives certain commodities. You could make the Hulk's performance vs the Covetor match its price differential today, and by tomorrow the bang per buck ratio would be different again.


Which is why it will be interesting to see how the prices change if these changes go into effect. Right now, the price differential between the hulk and the covetor is tolerated, but the mechanics back that price differential up. If the mechanics change, presumably the prices would eventually change to match, but how fast and how much would make things interesting for a while.
Chris Cooley
Doomheim
#194 - 2012-06-27 13:50:53 UTC
The Hulk need a built in 1600 plate and a larger hold.
It should also have a built in roid scanner.
Gorinia Sanford
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#195 - 2012-07-02 06:58:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Gorinia Sanford
I am FacelessAlt wrote:
Yes these changes are a Nerf to Hulks, the co-worker analogy is false as other miners are not co-workers they are competition... remember that this game is not just ship based PvP.

These changes mean that new players get an increased yield with a mahoosive tank and hold making them comparable with the top end mining vessel. An ore hold equal to the cargo hold of a Hulk yay... high end miners use an orca anyway. No anti gank the super expensive ship here. Seems the balancers are on the same side as the muppet gankers (less stupid now the goons have extended the bounty but nonetheless) the Hulk is meant to be a hardcore highend vessel with skill requirements to match now a couple of weeks training gets you similar results.

I understand the need to make each ship have its place but I can't help but feel like us Hulk miners have just got the raw end of a shiny deal.


True enough. I just got my Hulk last week and I love how fast I can mow down asteroids now. Shocked

However, as they say, the other mining barges will receive a buff to bring up their yield closer to a Hulk, I will bring my Retrievers out of mothballs and use them for solo mining and save the Hulk for corp ops. Being that the Retriever will have a ore hold on par with a jetcan, I can fill it, return to base and head back out and save myself some grief by not being can flipped.

And for the record, I do not AFK mine. Sure, I get up from time to time to get a snack, something to drink or use the restroom, but I try to keep as alert as possible to avoid getting ganked.
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#196 - 2012-07-03 03:02:18 UTC
If CCP closes the gap between all the other ore ships and the hulk, should that now make the hulk less valuable and the other ships a little more? Which will be a good thing because it will drop hulk prices and industrialist wont be so butt hurt if they have to buy a new one.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#197 - 2012-07-03 15:34:11 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
If CCP closes the gap between all the other ore ships and the hulk, should that now make the hulk less valuable and the other ships a little more? Which will be a good thing because it will drop hulk prices and industrialist wont be so butt hurt if they have to buy a new one.



A very good point as well. Mining in general is the slowest of the money making ventures in Eve, yet uses the most expensive ship it can get for the job as a rule. If that price tanks, it will help quite a bit on recovery when they get blown out of their ships.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Mingja
Perkone
Caldari State
#198 - 2012-07-03 16:09:24 UTC
Zetaomega333 wrote:
If your solo mining with one account in nullsec you need to go back to empire. In null you need a second account to tank the belts with while your miner mines, it is possible to get a very expensive deadspace fit to tank the bs rats as a hulk but its just not worth the time. Alot of people use Domis, abaddons, Drakes, ect to belt tank while they mine. Most of my miners have an account dedicated to belt tanking. If you think that swapping to a pve ship every time rats spawn is viable you need to rethink your strat.


Oh.. you are so wrong.. all it needs is a Gistii B-type small shield booster, some tankmods in mids and the second hulk pilot with logi drones. Price in total arround 70 mil.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#199 - 2012-07-04 04:27:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Man that's lame.

It's not going to stop me from mining in my Hulk but at least they should have buffed are EHP.

I think the buffs to the lower end ships is great.

I even think the ore hold being bigger on lower yield is great.

Give up ore hold for ore yeild that's great.

Still in a over priced glass ore sucker just sucks though.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Corvus Borealis
AUS-BadBadNotGood
#200 - 2012-07-04 06:01:38 UTC
Damn, how hard it is to get it?

Hulk is the ship that has been pimped for mining yield.

Skiff is the ship that has been pimped for tanking.

Mackinaw is the ship that has been pimped for ice extraction.

So you have three tools, for three different situations