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Paving the way to the next nerf: hulks
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#161 - 2012-06-25 05:43:20 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
That's not properly tanked.

40.8k EHP vs Void and still enough tank that 2 volleys from a Nado won't kill it.

[Hulk, Tank Fit]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Quite big EM resist hole you have there.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#162 - 2012-06-25 05:56:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Quite big EM resist hole you have there.

I prefer this fit with a shield harmonizing link (preferably with a max skill mindlinked siege booster in a Tengu).

If you leave one or two of the T2 hardeners off, you can set to overheat, and activate when you get nervous. Hardeners last for about 2 minutes or so, and you can carry paste in the Orca if it was a false alarm.

[Hulk, EHP]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Damage Control II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5
Mining Drone II x5
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#163 - 2012-06-25 06:07:06 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
I prefer this fit with a shield harmonizing link (preferably with a max skill mindlinked siege booster in a Tengu).

If you leave one or two of the T2 hardeners off, you can set to overheat, and activate when you get nervous. Hardeners last for about 2 minutes or so, and you can carry paste in the Orca if it was a false alarm.

[Hulk, EHP]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Damage Control II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5
Mining Drone II x5


I would use same. I would replace those drones with 5x Vespa EC-600 and let Orca pilot deal with belt rats.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#164 - 2012-06-25 06:58:58 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
That's not properly tanked.

40.8k EHP vs Void and still enough tank that 2 volleys from a Nado won't kill it.

[Hulk, Tank Fit]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Quite big EM resist hole you have there.


Whops, must have forgotten to recheck my vs. Nado EHPs.

This'll hit your 28k EHP vs EMP and 34.8k vs Null

And a T2 Talos does 32.5k damage before Concord.

[Hulk, Tank Fit]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#165 - 2012-06-25 08:03:21 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Whops, must have forgotten to recheck my vs. Nado EHPs.

This'll hit your 28k EHP vs EMP and 34.8k vs Null

And a T2 Talos does 32.5k damage before Concord.

[Hulk, Tank Fit]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Assuming miner is AFK (we are talking about hisec miner here after all), no fleet bonuses (again we are talking about hisec miner here) and ganker has way too much money:

[Oracle, expensive gankOracle]

Ahremen's Modified Heat Sink
Ahremen's Modified Heat Sink
Ahremen's Modified Heat Sink
Ahremen's Modified Heat Sink
[Empty Low slot]
[Empty Low slot]

[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Medium Energy Burst Aerator I
Medium Energy Collision Accelerator I
[Empty Rig slot]


Inherent Implants 'Lancer' Gunnery RF-905
Inherent Implants 'Lancer' Large Energy Turret LE-1005
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#166 - 2012-06-25 08:50:15 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Whops, must have forgotten to recheck my vs. Nado EHPs.

This'll hit your 28k EHP vs EMP and 34.8k vs Null

And a T2 Talos does 32.5k damage before Concord.

[Hulk, Tank Fit]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Assuming miner is AFK (we are talking about hisec miner here after all), no fleet bonuses (again we are talking about hisec miner here) and ganker has way too much money:

[Oracle, expensive gankOracle]

Ahremen's Modified Heat Sink
Ahremen's Modified Heat Sink
Ahremen's Modified Heat Sink
Ahremen's Modified Heat Sink
[Empty Low slot]
[Empty Low slot]

[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Medium Energy Burst Aerator I
Medium Energy Collision Accelerator I
[Empty Rig slot]


Inherent Implants 'Lancer' Gunnery RF-905
Inherent Implants 'Lancer' Large Energy Turret LE-1005


If I were the miner, I would hope to get on that KM.

If you get to use Officer Mods, then I do too.

97k EHP vs Conflag (which is what you'd use in a gank Oracle, not Scorch)
88k EHP vs AM
102k EHP vs Quake

And it has around a 500dps tank, which amounts to a not-insignificant 10k EHP bonus over the duration of the gank.

But seriously, you're using faction and officer mods on a suicide gank ship. What the hell is your point?

[Hulk, Super Tank Fit]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Caldari Navy Medium Shield Extender
Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Estamel's Modified EM Ward Field

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#167 - 2012-06-25 09:08:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
RubyPorto wrote:
But seriously, you're using faction and officer mods on a suicide gank ship. What the hell is your point?


You get faction items from every rat in null and officers spawn every 20 mins (and you can even solo them).

And gankers are null people who try to teach carebears how this game should be played.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#168 - 2012-06-25 09:19:50 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
But seriously, you're using faction and officer mods on a suicide gank ship. What the hell is your point?


You get faction items from every rat in null and officers spawn every 20 mins (and you can even solo them).

And gankers are null people who try to teach carebears how this game should be played.


...

Trying to troll doesn't work when you've developed a history of being exactly that dense.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#169 - 2012-06-25 09:41:03 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
...

Trying to troll doesn't work when you've developed a history of being exactly that dense.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101626
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#170 - 2012-06-25 10:08:20 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
...

Trying to troll doesn't work when you've developed a history of being exactly that dense.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101626


Unless the link is self explanatory* as to relevance and such, it helps to explain why you link something.

*and concisely so; I'm not reading 29 pages to try to suss out relevance

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#171 - 2012-06-25 10:16:32 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Unless the link is self explanatory* as to relevance and such, it helps to explain why you link something.

*and concisely so; I'm not reading 29 pages to try to suss out relevance


You only need to read first page. Only relevant part is what God of EVE says. Everything else in that thread is irrelevant.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#172 - 2012-06-25 10:20:54 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Unless the link is self explanatory* as to relevance and such, it helps to explain why you link something.

*and concisely so; I'm not reading 29 pages to try to suss out relevance


You only need to read first page. Only relevant part is what God of EVE says. Everything else in that thread is irrelevant.


Nobody named "God of Eve" appears on page 1.

How about, instead of sending me off to read 20 pages of essay, you talk.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#173 - 2012-06-25 11:00:20 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Battleship-Like-EHP != Unfitted Battleship EHP


One more bait ship for Goons that is then.


That's not a sentence

lol!
anishamora
Atelierele Grivita
#174 - 2012-06-25 12:50:29 UTC
I'm surprised that after all these years there are people that can't see one change's effect past the devblog notes...

To all the dumbasses: yes, the buff of the mining barges is a nerf of the hulk. Why? Because hulk will be useless. It already is uselss!! Why use a hulk when you can use a ship that costs 10-20 times less and has roughly the same yield? So yes, all barges receive a role at the expense of Hulk's role. That's stupid.

To the idiots bashing the carebears: if there were no carebears you'd have to mine all the minerals yourselves and build the ships and the modules and do that very inefficiently. You wouldn't even have time to blow that ship you just built. So stop being idiots and be glad for every buff of the industrial side of the game.
Dave Stark
#175 - 2012-06-25 13:21:26 UTC
anishamora wrote:
I'm surprised that after all these years there are people that can't see one change's effect past the devblog notes...

To all the dumbasses: yes, the buff of the mining barges is a nerf of the hulk. Why? Because hulk will be useless. It already is uselss!! Why use a hulk when you can use a ship that costs 10-20 times less and has roughly the same yield? So yes, all barges receive a role at the expense of Hulk's role. That's stupid.

To the idiots bashing the carebears: if there were no carebears you'd have to mine all the minerals yourselves and build the ships and the modules and do that very inefficiently. You wouldn't even have time to blow that ship you just built. So stop being idiots and be glad for every buff of the industrial side of the game.


the hulk is not useless, why use a hulk? because it has the best m3/cycle in the game.
Mingja
Perkone
Caldari State
#176 - 2012-06-25 15:24:53 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
anishamora wrote:
I'm surprised that after all these years there are people that can't see one change's effect past the devblog notes...

To all the dumbasses: yes, the buff of the mining barges is a nerf of the hulk. Why? Because hulk will be useless. It already is uselss!! Why use a hulk when you can use a ship that costs 10-20 times less and has roughly the same yield? So yes, all barges receive a role at the expense of Hulk's role. That's stupid.

To the idiots bashing the carebears: if there were no carebears you'd have to mine all the minerals yourselves and build the ships and the modules and do that very inefficiently. You wouldn't even have time to blow that ship you just built. So stop being idiots and be glad for every buff of the industrial side of the game.


the hulk is not useless, why use a hulk? because it has the best m3/cycle in the game.


Depends on the Hulk-tank after this changes. Currently, you have to use a Gistii b-type ssb and logistic drones to handle rat-aggro in Null-sec belts. If the hulks tank gets nerfed down to not beeing able to tank belt-rats for atleast a decent time anymore, the hulk gets less useful (I use it myself as a fleet miner, but if they change it to a point at which I need combat-supporters, I'll switch to another barge).
Dave Stark
#177 - 2012-06-25 15:31:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Mingja wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
anishamora wrote:
I'm surprised that after all these years there are people that can't see one change's effect past the devblog notes...

To all the dumbasses: yes, the buff of the mining barges is a nerf of the hulk. Why? Because hulk will be useless. It already is uselss!! Why use a hulk when you can use a ship that costs 10-20 times less and has roughly the same yield? So yes, all barges receive a role at the expense of Hulk's role. That's stupid.

To the idiots bashing the carebears: if there were no carebears you'd have to mine all the minerals yourselves and build the ships and the modules and do that very inefficiently. You wouldn't even have time to blow that ship you just built. So stop being idiots and be glad for every buff of the industrial side of the game.


the hulk is not useless, why use a hulk? because it has the best m3/cycle in the game.


Depends on the Hulk-tank after this changes. Currently, you have to use a Gistii b-type ssb and logistic drones to handle rat-aggro in Null-sec belts. If the hulks tank gets nerfed down to not beeing able to tank belt-rats for atleast a decent time anymore, the hulk gets less useful (I use it myself as a fleet miner, but if they change it to a point at which I need combat-supporters, I'll switch to another barge).


or just swap ship and **** the rats like i do.
to be honest the erratic spawns are the worst part about belt spawns. often i can go an hour between spawns, other times i get 1 cycle before the rats come back.

edit; case in point, i just killed rats, docked my ship, undocked in my hulk, as soon as i get back to the belts, third set of rats in under 20 mins. irony is, this is probably more isk/hr than 20 mins uninterrupted mining.
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#178 - 2012-06-25 15:40:17 UTC
Mingja wrote:
Depends on the Hulk-tank after this changes. Currently, you have to use a Gistii b-type ssb and logistic drones to handle rat-aggro in Null-sec belts. If the hulks tank gets nerfed down to not beeing able to tank belt-rats for atleast a decent time anymore, the hulk gets less useful (I use it myself as a fleet miner, but if they change it to a point at which I need combat-supporters, I'll switch to another barge).

Is there even a chance of the tank of a hulk getting nerfed down? According to the blog it and the covetor will have "little to average" EHP. But that's compared to the other mining barges & exhumers which are going to now stretch up to BS-levels of defense. If anything I'd expect the hulk's defenses to increase.
Mingja
Perkone
Caldari State
#179 - 2012-06-25 16:17:34 UTC
Quote:
or just swap ship and **** the rats like i do.
to be honest the erratic spawns are the worst part about belt spawns. often i can go an hour between spawns, other times i get 1 cycle before the rats come back.

edit; case in point, i just killed rats, docked my ship, undocked in my hulk, as soon as i get back to the belts, third set of rats in under 20 mins. irony is, this is probably more isk/hr than 20 mins uninterrupted mining.


Well, I use combat drones to kill'em. If this isn't possible after those changes because my hulk blows up before I can kill them, I could get used to it and take the yield-hit to switch to a more tanky ship instead.


Saile Litestrider wrote:
Mingja wrote:
Depends on the Hulk-tank after this changes. Currently, you have to use a Gistii b-type ssb and logistic drones to handle rat-aggro in Null-sec belts. If the hulks tank gets nerfed down to not beeing able to tank belt-rats for atleast a decent time anymore, the hulk gets less useful (I use it myself as a fleet miner, but if they change it to a point at which I need combat-supporters, I'll switch to another barge).

Is there even a chance of the tank of a hulk getting nerfed down? According to the blog it and the covetor will have "little to average" EHP. But that's compared to the other mining barges & exhumers which are going to now stretch up to BS-levels of defense. If anything I'd expect the hulk's defenses to increase.


IDK, sorry.
Someone mentioned it here, so no clue if this is actually true.
Anyway, I don't see the reason why the Hulk gets nerfed. Yes, it is a nerf to the income a hulk provides, and to the versatility of this ship (the cargo-nerf). For measly 15% more Yield. I'm so excited.. *sigh*.

It might make some sense in a degree. Every ship should have a role but.. some should shine more brighter than others, and the hulk is definately one of it. If the Procurer gets superior tank, the mack superior cargo-hold, than the hulk should get superior yield. Add a 2% bonus to mining drone-yield per level of exhumers for the hulk only. That would be a deal for the loss of beeing able to increase ore-hold.
Dave Stark
#180 - 2012-06-25 16:24:50 UTC
Mingja wrote:
Quote:
or just swap ship and **** the rats like i do.
to be honest the erratic spawns are the worst part about belt spawns. often i can go an hour between spawns, other times i get 1 cycle before the rats come back.

edit; case in point, i just killed rats, docked my ship, undocked in my hulk, as soon as i get back to the belts, third set of rats in under 20 mins. irony is, this is probably more isk/hr than 20 mins uninterrupted mining.


Well, I use combat drones to kill'em. If this isn't possible after those changes because my hulk blows up before I can kill them, I could get used to it and take the yield-hit to switch to a more tanky ship instead.



the woes of being a new player; my drone skills are terribad.