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Bring back Myrmidon drone bandwith?

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Verlyn
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#1 - 2012-06-22 14:59:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Verlyn
Pwetty please?

This ship pretty much came down from being a topnotch drone BC (as it should be) with below average turret dps, to an ok-ish neuter or autocannons triple-repped ganker (nothing a minmatar BC or neutspecific ship can't do + its own bonuses...).

Prey tell me though, where that nerf came from? As I totally missed on it and hadn't flown Myrms in a very long time.

Thanks.

Edit: Make sure to bump this thread stating your support for a semi-rollback (See Lin's proposal below), or criticism.
The longer it stays up the likier it'll go places...
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-06-22 15:00:40 UTC
Or you can accept the fact it's still a monster and that battlecruisers were never really meant to solo multiple battleships.

Dodixie > Hek
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2012-06-22 15:09:51 UTC
the original myrm was a great ship and i have fond memories of losing them over and over again trying to rat

unnerf it

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Verlyn
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#4 - 2012-06-22 15:10:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Verlyn
Quote:
Or you can accept the fact it's still a monster and that battlecruisers were never really meant to solo multiple battleships.


*cough* Tor *cough* nado ?

...
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-06-22 15:10:31 UTC
Verlyn wrote:
Pwetty please?

This ship pretty much came down from being a topnotch drone BC (as it should be) with below average turret dps, to an ok-ish neuter or autocannons triple-repped ganker (nothing a minmatar BC or neutspecific ship can't do + its own bonuses...).

Prey tell me though, where that nerf came from? As I totally missed on it and hadn't flown Myrms in a very long time.

Thanks.








Some still think it's so ubber because can triple rep and kill a few noob ships, but it isn't. Every pilot knowing what a Myrmidon is and don't pop his drones and make it burn his cap charges is going to die, the one knowing that will kill it and smack it in local.

Of course some will tell you it's so ubber and every one misses the point. It can be good, it is good, but it's a situational ship. Pick a Gila, that's an awesome drone boat.

brb
Kieron VonDeux
#6 - 2012-06-22 15:17:33 UTC
Only if we can also get back the Huricane's 7th turret as it was initially on SIsi.
Verlyn
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#7 - 2012-06-22 15:18:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Verlyn
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


Some still think it's so ubber because can triple rep and kill a few noob ships, but it isn't. Every pilot knowing what a Myrmidon is and don't pop his drones and make it burn his cap charges is going to die, the one knowing that will kill it and smack it in local.

Of course some will tell you it's so ubber and every one misses the point. It can be good, it is good, but it's a situational ship. Pick a Gila, that's an awesome drone boat.


Gallente ships are closedps and droneboats by def, making me pick another race ship just because someone didn't tank their battleships right or forgot to shoot the slowmoving Ogres down, it isn't the ship's problem but the poorly tanked BS peeps. That nerf seems uncalled for imo.
Verlyn
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#8 - 2012-06-22 15:18:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Verlyn
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Only if we can also get back the Huricane's 7th turret as it was initially on SIsi.


Why not? You still wouldn't last at close range anyway.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-06-22 15:31:28 UTC
Verlyn wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


Some still think it's so ubber because can triple rep and kill a few noob ships, but it isn't. Every pilot knowing what a Myrmidon is and don't pop his drones and make it burn his cap charges is going to die, the one knowing that will kill it and smack it in local.

Of course some will tell you it's so ubber and every one misses the point. It can be good, it is good, but it's a situational ship. Pick a Gila, that's an awesome drone boat.


Gallente ships are droneboats by def,


Nope, Galletne boats are Blaster boats 1st, secondly drone boats and then rails.

Quote:
making me pick another race ship just because someone didn't tank their battleships right or forgot to shoot the slowmoving Ogres down, isn't the ship's problem but the poorly tanked BS peeps. That nerf seems uncalled for imo.


Let's put it simple, a naked Megathron with some decent skills pushes over 35k EHP. Slap a few tank mods (DCU II mandatory because hull tank) and you are already at 100K EHP with about 1K dps, a generous drone bay and there's no way in hell a 1vs1 fight with 2 decent pilots finish with myrmidon wining.

On topic, with new drone mods 5 ogres + auto canons would make your Myrmidon battleship/Tier 3 BC dps. Now I'm all for it to get back the bandwidth but take at least one high hardpoint out and decrease weapons fitting ability (PG) (make it low slot)

brb
Verlyn
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#10 - 2012-06-22 15:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Verlyn
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:

Nope, Galletne boats are Blaster boats 1st, secondly drone boats and then rails.


Yea, point being Myrmidon doesnt have Hybrid bonuses and is meant to use its 10% drone damage to compensate.

Quote:
Let's put it simple, a naked Megathron with some decent skills pushes over 35k EHP. Slap a few tank mods (DCU II mandatory because hull tank) and you are already at 100K EHP with about 1K dps, a generous drone bay and there's no way in hell a 1vs1 fight with 2 decent pilots finish with myrmidon wining.

On topic, with new drone mods 5 ogres + auto canons would make your Myrmidon battleship/Tier 3 BC dps. Now I'm all for it to get back the bandwidth but take at least one high hardpoint out and decrease weapons fitting ability (PG) (make it low slot)

Yea the "solo multiple bs" argument is BS indeed.

And yes, having one of its hi's taken off for bringing back Ogre capacity is a fair enough trade, nerfing bandwith was a stupid move, glad we agree on this.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-06-22 16:11:37 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Verlyn wrote:
Pwetty please?

This ship pretty much came down from being a topnotch drone BC (as it should be) with below average turret dps, to an ok-ish neuter or autocannons triple-repped ganker (nothing a minmatar BC or neutspecific ship can't do + its own bonuses...).

Prey tell me though, where that nerf came from? As I totally missed on it and hadn't flown Myrms in a very long time.

Thanks.








Some still think it's so ubber because can triple rep and kill a few noob ships, but it isn't. Every pilot knowing what a Myrmidon is and don't pop his drones and make it burn his cap charges is going to die, the one knowing that will kill it and smack it in local.

Of course some will tell you it's so ubber and every one misses the point. It can be good, it is good, but it's a situational ship. Pick a Gila, that's an awesome drone boat.


After the drone nerf, Myrm became the only BC that has less gank than its equivalent HAC. It makes no sense for Ishtar or Gila to field 5 heavies and Myrm 3. I never saw the reason why a properly functional BC working as intended, gets a gimmecky role as tripple repper instead.

Verlyn wrote:
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Only if we can also get back the Huricane's 7th turret as it was initially on SIsi.


Why not? You still wouldn't last at close range anyway.


It was initially slow and had half the range too...Roll
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#12 - 2012-06-22 17:12:57 UTC
I'm not a fan of five bonused Ogres on the Myrm...

I'd much rather see the following:

Increase Drone Bay significantly.

either
Increase bandwidth to 125Mb and change the bonus to 20% but only applying to Scout Drones (same flag as the Combat Drone Operation skill)

or
Reduce Bandwidth to 50Mb and increase the bonus to 20%. (a little more awkward with 3 lights, 1 medium & 1 heavy)...

The effect would be to make each medium or light equivalent to four unbonused drones (100% improvement for Drone Interfacing, 100% for the ship).
In terms of unbonused medium drones that would make the Vexor's damage "worth" 15 unbonused drones, the Myrm's "worth" 20 and the Dominix's (using heavies which are approximately twice as potent as mediums) worth 30. Thus building a neat progression across the three.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-06-22 17:41:16 UTC
Verlyn wrote:
*cough* Tor *cough* nado ?

...


I've never seen a 'nado punch a rokh repeatedly in the face while being shot at by an apoc and win.

Dodixie > Hek
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-06-22 18:32:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Jacob Holland wrote:
I'm not a fan of five bonused Ogres on the Myrm...

I'd much rather see the following:

Increase Drone Bay significantly.

either
Increase bandwidth to 125Mb and change the bonus to 20% but only applying to Scout Drones (same flag as the Combat Drone Operation skill)

or
Reduce Bandwidth to 50Mb and increase the bonus to 20%. (a little more awkward with 3 lights, 1 medium & 1 heavy)...

The effect would be to make each medium or light equivalent to four unbonused drones (100% improvement for Drone Interfacing, 100% for the ship).
In terms of unbonused medium drones that would make the Vexor's damage "worth" 15 unbonused drones, the Myrm's "worth" 20 and the Dominix's (using heavies which are approximately twice as potent as mediums) worth 30. Thus building a neat progression across the three.



I actually have to disagree with you my space friend, specially regarding Heavy drone/sentry.

1st of all having more drones in your bay will certainly offer you a bigger choice of iteration when in groups, however you can not sort out more than 5 and you are being heavily penalised because your ship has drone damage bonus and not EWAR and Logistic bots. SO in groups you will be limited to sort out Meds and lights witch most ships already do but your guns will not compensate for this heavy drawback.

Being able to fit 3 MAR doesn't makes it better, just makes it more painful to kill but when you're the pilot in it's just tedious.

Loosing one high hard point and make it low slot will increase drone mods fitting ability, add more bandwidth and once you can get out 5 heavy or 4 sentry now this makes it on pair with other bc's dps but remember your Myrmidon is not really like a 1600m/s Cane or 1200m/s perma mwd drake that have all this mobility, can shoot you from "there" and have a very decent tank.

Myrmidon can not fit the long range role but can fit the tanky/med dps one, actually it's just a tanky brick with meh dps because of this silly bandwidth.
It needs this bandwidth increased, it needs to get the active armor tank effective rather than shield and loosing one high hard point for a low can bring a lot more options for it's intended role.

Also extend drone ship bonus to a 2% EWAR bonus per level and add Logistic drones to the 10% already existent would bring to Myrmidon a well deserved freshness giving older as new pilots new gaming options without making it overpowered or fake revamp.


Edit: maybe 10% per lvl logisitc bots bonus is a little too much OP but 5 would not be.

brb
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-06-22 18:53:08 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
I'm not a fan of five bonused Ogres on the Myrm...

I'd much rather see the following:

Increase Drone Bay significantly.

either
Increase bandwidth to 125Mb and change the bonus to 20% but only applying to Scout Drones (same flag as the Combat Drone Operation skill)

or
Reduce Bandwidth to 50Mb and increase the bonus to 20%. (a little more awkward with 3 lights, 1 medium & 1 heavy)...

The effect would be to make each medium or light equivalent to four unbonused drones (100% improvement for Drone Interfacing, 100% for the ship).
In terms of unbonused medium drones that would make the Vexor's damage "worth" 15 unbonused drones, the Myrm's "worth" 20 and the Dominix's (using heavies which are approximately twice as potent as mediums) worth 30. Thus building a neat progression across the three.


That's like saying Ishtar or Gila needs similar bonus nerfs. Drones don't need nerf. They're already drones. And BC does not need less gank than equivalent HAC.

What Myrm needs is less of this triple repping gemmick, and more of a proper droneboat. Less tank, more gank, same as what drake needs.

They took a properly balanced and working droneboat and turned it into some kind of shenanigan machine.
ISD Stensson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-06-22 19:17:05 UTC
Thread is moved from "EVE General Discussion" to "Features & Ideas Discussion" forum.

[b]ISD Stensson Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Verlyn
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#17 - 2012-06-23 09:21:44 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Verlyn wrote:
*cough* Tor *cough* nado ?

...


I've never seen a 'nado punch a rokh repeatedly in the face while being shot at by an apoc and win.


Oh but I have, he didn't win but took one bs down with him and dented the other, later it turned out the dead bs pilot was just terrribad and poorly fit.
See what I did there?

Anyways, thanks for the valuable input, the myrm is totally fine as it is. *shrugs*
Verlyn
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#18 - 2012-06-23 09:53:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Verlyn
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:

It needs this bandwidth increased, it needs to get the active armor tank effective rather than shield and loosing one high hard point for a low can bring a lot more options for it's intended role.


Can't be stressed more I think.

The fact I'd sooner resort to a shieldfit with autocannons on a gallente ship, merely to outdps on my lack of hybrid bonuses and now nerfed drone bw capacity, is proof enough that this nerf was poorly thought out and gimped the ship's initial use in the field.

Lin makes a point, hopefully CCP heeds call.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-06-23 12:03:35 UTC
Verlyn wrote:

Can't be stressed more I think.

The fact I'd sooner resort to a shieldfit with autocannons on a gallente ship, merely to outdps on my lack of hybrid bonuses and now nerfed drone bw capacity, is proof enough that this nerf was poorly thought out and gimped the ship's initial use in the field.

Lin makes a point, hopefully CCP heeds call.


I've seen armour tanked caldari ships. I've seen AC fit tengus (before they exploded). Fit something because it works, not because it's racial.

Dodixie > Hek
Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
#20 - 2012-06-23 12:10:35 UTC
Verlyn wrote:

Lin makes a point, hopefully CCP heeds call.


Its gallente. CCP hates gallente :P
Eve forums official anthem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudOFG5X6uA Real men tank hull. Fake women shield-tank Gallente.
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