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CCP - Rookie System Rules Clarification

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Domono
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#641 - 2012-06-23 02:40:57 UTC
No. Accidentally firing off your smart bombs in a rookie system once is one thing. Apologize to the poor SOB and call it good. Doing it once a day or several times a day or month even by "mistake" you should get a punishment, which should help you pay more attention to what your doing. It is easy to call them accidents even though they may not be. Locking onto someone in a rookie system and firing without a even a scanner equipped is deliberate, with a scanner you COULD of meant to hit the scanner. Regardless you should be paying more attention to what your doing. Baiting and flipping is to deliberate to even discuss.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#642 - 2012-06-23 02:44:20 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Domono wrote:
What accidents? I'm am honestly trying to help you get a grip on it but your making it difficult. Accidents are accidents deliberate is deliberate. They have the tools to distinguish the two. Chat logs, past petitions against you, kill logs.


So you want an unclear rule that means that a griefer can gank rookies until at least 2 petition him vs a rule where GMs can simply ban people who get on kms in rookie systems and refund the killed person?


And you want a cut and dry rule now they are a rookie and now they are not. All that will do is allow players to camp that spot/point when rookies become non rookies. Does not solve a thing. CCP still gets thousands of petitions about a stupid rule that puts up a known spot where they can all be camped. It just shifts the problem to a different point in the game.


The rule has always been that nobody's protected outside of rookie systems. You're trying to deal with a problem that doesn't exist. The way that you're trying to deal with that problem will cause much bigger problems.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#643 - 2012-06-23 02:48:25 UTC
Domono wrote:
No. Accidentally firing off your smart bombs in a rookie system once is one thing. Apologize to the poor SOB and call it good. Doing it once a day or several times a day or month even by "mistake" you should get a punishment, which should help you pay more attention to what your doing. It is easy to call them accidents even though they may not be. Locking onto someone in a rookie system and firing without a even a scanner equipped is deliberate, with a scanner you COULD of meant to hit the scanner. Regardless you should be paying more attention to what your doing. Baiting and flipping is to deliberate to even discuss.


1) Smartbombs get you a Don't do Stupid Shit popup.

2) I'm trying to remove the ability to hide behind "accident" the first few times.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Herr Hammer Draken
#644 - 2012-06-23 02:54:16 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Domono wrote:
What accidents? I'm am honestly trying to help you get a grip on it but your making it difficult. Accidents are accidents deliberate is deliberate. They have the tools to distinguish the two. Chat logs, past petitions against you, kill logs.


So you want an unclear rule that means that a griefer can gank rookies until at least 2 petition him vs a rule where GMs can simply ban people who get on kms in rookie systems and refund the killed person?


And you want a cut and dry rule now they are a rookie and now they are not. All that will do is allow players to camp that spot/point when rookies become non rookies. Does not solve a thing. CCP still gets thousands of petitions about a stupid rule that puts up a known spot where they can all be camped. It just shifts the problem to a different point in the game.


The rule has always been that nobody's protected outside of rookie systems. You're trying to deal with a problem that doesn't exist. The way that you're trying to deal with that problem will cause much bigger problems.


Oh it most certainly does exsist. The GM's already warned of possible expansion of what are called rookie systems if people begin to camp the gates to the rookie systems. Your solution does not work for that very reason. It is too defining for the needs
of the rookies. Some rookies are ready far faster than others. Your rule would lock them into being a rookie until they are not.
It is not flexible to the needs of the players or the game. That is why it is bad.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Herr Hammer Draken
#645 - 2012-06-23 02:57:23 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Domono wrote:
No. Accidentally firing off your smart bombs in a rookie system once is one thing. Apologize to the poor SOB and call it good. Doing it once a day or several times a day or month even by "mistake" you should get a punishment, which should help you pay more attention to what your doing. It is easy to call them accidents even though they may not be. Locking onto someone in a rookie system and firing without a even a scanner equipped is deliberate, with a scanner you COULD of meant to hit the scanner. Regardless you should be paying more attention to what your doing. Baiting and flipping is to deliberate to even discuss.


1) Smartbombs get you a Don't do Stupid Shit popup.

2) I'm trying to remove the ability to hide behind "accident" the first few times.


I believe you are trying to define the moment the rookies can be camped.
You hide it behind a thin veil of trying to do the right thing. In perfect EVE style.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#646 - 2012-06-23 02:59:32 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Domono wrote:
What accidents? I'm am honestly trying to help you get a grip on it but your making it difficult. Accidents are accidents deliberate is deliberate. They have the tools to distinguish the two. Chat logs, past petitions against you, kill logs.


So you want an unclear rule that means that a griefer can gank rookies until at least 2 petition him vs a rule where GMs can simply ban people who get on kms in rookie systems and refund the killed person?


And you want a cut and dry rule now they are a rookie and now they are not. All that will do is allow players to camp that spot/point when rookies become non rookies. Does not solve a thing. CCP still gets thousands of petitions about a stupid rule that puts up a known spot where they can all be camped. It just shifts the problem to a different point in the game.


The rule has always been that nobody's protected outside of rookie systems. You're trying to deal with a problem that doesn't exist. The way that you're trying to deal with that problem will cause much bigger problems.


Oh it most certainly does exsist. The GM's already warned of possible expansion of what are called rookie systems if people begin to camp the gates to the rookie systems. Your solution does not work for that very reason. It is too defining for the needs
of the rookies. Some rookies are ready far faster than others. Your rule would lock them into being a rookie until they are not.
It is not flexible to the needs of the players or the game. That is why it is bad.


If they're ready to not be a protected rookie, they can easily stop being protected. They just have to exit the system.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Domono
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#647 - 2012-06-23 03:02:02 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Domono wrote:
No. Accidentally firing off your smart bombs in a rookie system once is one thing. Apologize to the poor SOB and call it good. Doing it once a day or several times a day or month even by "mistake" you should get a punishment, which should help you pay more attention to what your doing. It is easy to call them accidents even though they may not be. Locking onto someone in a rookie system and firing without a even a scanner equipped is deliberate, with a scanner you COULD of meant to hit the scanner. Regardless you should be paying more attention to what your doing. Baiting and flipping is to deliberate to even discuss.


1) Smartbombs get you a Don't do Stupid Shit popup.

2) I'm trying to remove the ability to hide behind "accident" the first few times.


I turned mine off.

The only people that are truly going to be affected by the rule is those that want to kill or grief everyone just because they can. Those who do it for profit aren't going to bother anyone that can immediately be seen as a rookie.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#648 - 2012-06-23 03:02:45 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Domono wrote:
No. Accidentally firing off your smart bombs in a rookie system once is one thing. Apologize to the poor SOB and call it good. Doing it once a day or several times a day or month even by "mistake" you should get a punishment, which should help you pay more attention to what your doing. It is easy to call them accidents even though they may not be. Locking onto someone in a rookie system and firing without a even a scanner equipped is deliberate, with a scanner you COULD of meant to hit the scanner. Regardless you should be paying more attention to what your doing. Baiting and flipping is to deliberate to even discuss.


1) Smartbombs get you a Don't do Stupid Shit popup.

2) I'm trying to remove the ability to hide behind "accident" the first few times.


I believe you are trying to define the moment the rookies can be camped.
You hide it behind a thin veil of trying to do the right thing. In perfect EVE style.


I believe you are trying to muddy the waters to be able to either abuse the rookie protections or abuse the uncertainty to shoot rookies.
You hide it behind a thin veil of trying to do the right thing. In perfect EVE style.


See, I can assign motives too. But while people have been calling me a rookie ganker for daring to suggest that the best and easiest way to protect rookies in rookie systems is to simply ban doing bad stuff in rookie systems, I have for the most part refrained from it.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#649 - 2012-06-23 03:05:03 UTC
Domono wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Domono wrote:
No. Accidentally firing off your smart bombs in a rookie system once is one thing. Apologize to the poor SOB and call it good. Doing it once a day or several times a day or month even by "mistake" you should get a punishment, which should help you pay more attention to what your doing. It is easy to call them accidents even though they may not be. Locking onto someone in a rookie system and firing without a even a scanner equipped is deliberate, with a scanner you COULD of meant to hit the scanner. Regardless you should be paying more attention to what your doing. Baiting and flipping is to deliberate to even discuss.


1) Smartbombs get you a Don't do Stupid Shit popup.

2) I'm trying to remove the ability to hide behind "accident" the first few times.


I turned mine off.

The only people that are truly going to be affected by the rule is those that want to kill or grief everyone just because they can. Those who do it for profit aren't going to bother anyone that can immediately be seen as a rookie.


You can't turn off the Concord warning. It will *always* show up.

Yeah, of course. And your suggestion will result in them getting away with it several times more than mine (doubly so since the Rookie has to petition the loss, which won't always happen).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Domono
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#650 - 2012-06-23 03:06:27 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Domono wrote:
No. Accidentally firing off your smart bombs in a rookie system once is one thing. Apologize to the poor SOB and call it good. Doing it once a day or several times a day or month even by "mistake" you should get a punishment, which should help you pay more attention to what your doing. It is easy to call them accidents even though they may not be. Locking onto someone in a rookie system and firing without a even a scanner equipped is deliberate, with a scanner you COULD of meant to hit the scanner. Regardless you should be paying more attention to what your doing. Baiting and flipping is to deliberate to even discuss.


1) Smartbombs get you a Don't do Stupid Shit popup.

2) I'm trying to remove the ability to hide behind "accident" the first few times.


I believe you are trying to define the moment the rookies can be camped.
You hide it behind a thin veil of trying to do the right thing. In perfect EVE style.


I believe you are trying to muddy the waters to be able to either abuse the rookie protections or abuse the uncertainty to shoot rookies.
You hide it behind a thin veil of trying to do the right thing. In perfect EVE style.


See, I can assign motives too. But while people have been calling me a rookie ganker for daring to suggest that the best and easiest way to protect rookies in rookie systems is to simply ban doing bad stuff in rookie systems, I have for the most part refrained from it.


Your right that would protect rookies. Along with everyone else that was in those systems.That is a problem too.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#651 - 2012-06-23 03:10:11 UTC
Domono wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Domono wrote:
No. Accidentally firing off your smart bombs in a rookie system once is one thing. Apologize to the poor SOB and call it good. Doing it once a day or several times a day or month even by "mistake" you should get a punishment, which should help you pay more attention to what your doing. It is easy to call them accidents even though they may not be. Locking onto someone in a rookie system and firing without a even a scanner equipped is deliberate, with a scanner you COULD of meant to hit the scanner. Regardless you should be paying more attention to what your doing. Baiting and flipping is to deliberate to even discuss.


1) Smartbombs get you a Don't do Stupid Shit popup.

2) I'm trying to remove the ability to hide behind "accident" the first few times.


I believe you are trying to define the moment the rookies can be camped.
You hide it behind a thin veil of trying to do the right thing. In perfect EVE style.


I believe you are trying to muddy the waters to be able to either abuse the rookie protections or abuse the uncertainty to shoot rookies.
You hide it behind a thin veil of trying to do the right thing. In perfect EVE style.


See, I can assign motives too. But while people have been calling me a rookie ganker for daring to suggest that the best and easiest way to protect rookies in rookie systems is to simply ban doing bad stuff in rookie systems, I have for the most part refrained from it.


Your right that would protect rookies. Along with everyone else that was in those systems.That is a problem too.


Oh god, 15m of safe veld mining. The horror.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Domono
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#652 - 2012-06-23 03:10:41 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Domono wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Domono wrote:
No. Accidentally firing off your smart bombs in a rookie system once is one thing. Apologize to the poor SOB and call it good. Doing it once a day or several times a day or month even by "mistake" you should get a punishment, which should help you pay more attention to what your doing. It is easy to call them accidents even though they may not be. Locking onto someone in a rookie system and firing without a even a scanner equipped is deliberate, with a scanner you COULD of meant to hit the scanner. Regardless you should be paying more attention to what your doing. Baiting and flipping is to deliberate to even discuss.


1) Smartbombs get you a Don't do Stupid Shit popup.

2) I'm trying to remove the ability to hide behind "accident" the first few times.


I turned mine off.

The only people that are truly going to be affected by the rule is those that want to kill or grief everyone just because they can. Those who do it for profit aren't going to bother anyone that can immediately be seen as a rookie.


You can't turn off the Concord warning. It will *always* show up.

Yeah, of course. And your suggestion will result in them getting away with it several times more than mine (doubly so since the Rookie has to petition the loss, which won't always happen).


Think you should try the smart bomb thing yourself.

Your way opens up a new list of issues.
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#653 - 2012-06-23 03:33:31 UTC
Let me tell you what I think is the easiest way to kill new players. Invite them to a fleet, when they accept, fly right up to him, or her and POW. One dead rookie. I could do this virtually all after noon, never have any risk, not miss a single one. Heck believe it or not I've actually done this in NPC 0.0 with success. The thing you need to ask yourself is why?

I think the rule works just fine. Just look at this thread, it's a testament to it's effectiveness.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#654 - 2012-06-23 03:46:01 UTC
Mrr Woodcock wrote:
Let me tell you what I think is the easiest way to kill new players. Invite them to a fleet, when they accept, fly right up to him, or her and POW. One dead rookie. I could do this virtually all after noon, never have any risk, not miss a single one. Heck believe it or not I've actually done this in NPC 0.0 with success. The thing you need to ask yourself is why?

I think the rule works just fine. Just look at this thread, it's a testament to it's effectiveness.


So yeah, you can suicide gank rookies by fleeting with them. How fun.

The rule doesn't work fine as is because it fails to protect rookies in rookie systems.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#655 - 2012-06-23 03:53:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mrr Woodcock
Hey Ruby, how your night going? Big smile
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#656 - 2012-06-23 03:57:24 UTC
Mrr Woodcock wrote:
Hey Ruby, how your night going? Big smile


Got 500m to drop from a POS. It's delicious.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#657 - 2012-06-23 03:58:09 UTC
Nice!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#658 - 2012-06-23 04:05:45 UTC
Mrr Woodcock wrote:
Nice!


It's going to Corp, but v0v

How's yours going?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#659 - 2012-06-23 04:13:04 UTC
Good thanks. Time for TV. Have a nice night.