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CCP - Rookie System Rules Clarification

First post First post First post
Author
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#61 - 2012-04-26 20:25:03 UTC
Define a rookie? 1 week old? 1 month old? There has to be a limit, where is it?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#62 - 2012-04-26 20:35:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
I keep seeing people asking what older players are doing in rookie systems, my answer is MYOB.

I have a trade character, based 2 jumps out of a rookie system, I buy a lot of stuff in that rookie system, I sell a lot of stuff in that rookie system, I also give away a lot of stuff in that rookie system. As long as I'm not shooting at rookies it's nobodies business but my own as to what I'm doing there.

TL;DR for the rest of the thread, if they're not a WT, not can baiting or in anything that's obviously capable of being used by a noob don't shoot at them.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-04-26 21:16:39 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
This is the 'reckless driving' equivalent. If I define the rules to the last dot someone will simply find a loop hole and use it.
Reckless is vague, like Mess with. Given.

But the law defines what Driving is :p So should it define a Rookie imho.


And honestly.. if you want to protect Rookies, the Rookie systems idea is flawed.
What should be done is some way to flag them, like give them a Blue icon [ Red is evil, Yellow did some time, Green if your corpmate.. Blue can be Rookie ] .. And make them protected in all of Highsec. A few training missions themselves have newbies leaving the "safety" of a rookie system, not to mention you have to go from the Starter system to the Career Agent system, where I have seen baitcans on the gates along that route before.

So give them serious protection. Make it so for them to get Aggro [ aka stealing, providing RR, etc. ] they have to jump through hoops and give up the rookie protection.. rather than just a single warning popup that apparently 90% of newbies hit okay too without reading lol..


This would give them, say, 30 days [ Same amount of time you are in Rookie Help ] of protection everywhere in highsec. And give all other players a visual indication not to mess with them.
Zleon Leigh
#64 - 2012-04-26 21:26:34 UTC
Sentinel Smith wrote:
GM Homonoia wrote:
This is the 'reckless driving' equivalent. If I define the rules to the last dot someone will simply find a loop hole and use it.
Reckless is vague, like Mess with. Given.

But the law defines what Driving is :p So should it define a Rookie imho.


And honestly.. if you want to protect Rookies, the Rookie systems idea is flawed.
What should be done is some way to flag them, like give them a Blue icon [ Red is evil, Yellow did some time, Green if your corpmate.. Blue can be Rookie ] .. And make them protected in all of Highsec. A few training missions themselves have newbies leaving the "safety" of a rookie system, not to mention you have to go from the Starter system to the Career Agent system, where I have seen baitcans on the gates along that route before.

So give them serious protection. Make it so for them to get Aggro [ aka stealing, providing RR, etc. ] they have to jump through hoops and give up the rookie protection.. rather than just a single warning popup that apparently 90% of newbies hit okay too without reading lol..


This would give them, say, 30 days [ Same amount of time you are in Rookie Help ] of protection everywhere in highsec. And give all other players a visual indication not to mess with them.


Blue Light Special! Twisted

Agreed.

How about the "blue classification" runs out the same time the training bonus does? Nullified by system sec status - if you are not in Empire all bets are off (and you get a popup when leaving anyways.) Failure to follow warnings is at the risk of the user.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it

Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-04-26 21:33:04 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
Note that dropping your property into space in a rookie system is not a bright idea. If a rookie gets curious ad takes from the can you had better not shoot him. You do not want a rookie to nab your stuff, do not drop the stuff in a rookie system.


I missed this the first time.

This statement seems to contradict http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems and http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Griefing .

Quote:
Warning: Can Flipping in Rookie Systems is considered Griefing.

Quote:
Can flipping / baiting

This refers to the practice of (ab)using the Criminal Flagging System to cause a fight between yourself and an unsuspecting party in high-security space. See main article for more.

Can flipping is officially considered griefing only in Rookie Systems. Some people do it just for fun, without the actual intent to cause the feelings of harassment and frustration in the victim. It is, however, also a typical form of griefing in the classic sense.


Which makes a blanket statement, that doesn't separate Rookies from Experienced players.

Does your statement means Baiting and Flipping is now allowed, providing you don't kill Rookies ?
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#66 - 2012-04-26 21:37:42 UTC
Define a Rookie, we need a clear definition. Surely a Hulk player in 1.0 rookie system is NOT a rookie. or a 1 or 2 month old player is NOT a rookie.
Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#67 - 2012-04-26 21:40:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Sentinel Smith wrote:
GM Homonoia wrote:
This is the 'reckless driving' equivalent. If I define the rules to the last dot someone will simply find a loop hole and use it.
Reckless is vague, like Mess with. Given.

But the law defines what Driving is :p So should it define a Rookie imho.


And honestly.. if you want to protect Rookies, the Rookie systems idea is flawed.
What should be done is some way to flag them, like give them a Blue icon [ Red is evil, Yellow did some time, Green if your corpmate.. Blue can be Rookie ] .. And make them protected in all of Highsec. A few training missions themselves have newbies leaving the "safety" of a rookie system, not to mention you have to go from the Starter system to the Career Agent system, where I have seen baitcans on the gates along that route before.

So give them serious protection. Make it so for them to get Aggro [ aka stealing, providing RR, etc. ] they have to jump through hoops and give up the rookie protection.. rather than just a single warning popup that apparently 90% of newbies hit okay too without reading lol..


This would give them, say, 30 days [ Same amount of time you are in Rookie Help ] of protection everywhere in highsec. And give all other players a visual indication not to mess with them.

Some people think I'm kind of a degenerate for the way I approach piracy. I loot wrecks and salvage them at fights I'm not involved in, and mainly prey on haulers (and cyno frigs when I'm bored). If people come ready to fight I typically run. It's fine... the world needs bottom feeders too.

I feel a lot better knowing there are rungs on the food chain beneath even me. Why do you even care about rookies? They have no ISK, they have lame noob ships and T1 frigs, never drop anything remotely decent, and don't even know how to fly around in space let alone fight. It's moronic to mess with them. Congrats, Sentinel Smith... you are the biggest looser.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#68 - 2012-04-27 10:37:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Astrid Stjerna
Sentinel Smith wrote:

Does your statement means Baiting and Flipping is now allowed, providing you don't kill Rookies ?


What Homonoia said was along the lines of 'better safe than sorry': dropping a can in a rookie system, even if it's a perfectly innocent and legitimate cargo transfer, can be misinterpreted as an attempt to can-bait, so it's probably better to wait until you're docked and do it manually.

If you do drop a legitimate can and someone does scoop your cargo, don't shoot them, because by the letter of the law, that's still considered can-baiting.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#69 - 2012-04-27 11:48:32 UTC
Really don't understand how this is even of interest to anyone who isn't either covertly or overtly looking to pop rookies.

"The rules don't concern me because I don't pop rookies, but I'm really interested anyway"

Cmon...
Gerald Taric
NEO DYNAMICS
#70 - 2012-04-27 14:53:45 UTC
Miilla wrote:
Define a Rookie, we need a clear definition. Surely a Hulk player in 1.0 rookie system is NOT a rookie. or a 1 or 2 month old player is NOT a rookie.

The answer can be found in this posting, but not in the way you want it to be: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1198726#post1198726

In short: Obviously there's intentionally no hard definition. Use common sense and if in doubt, assume the pilot in question being a rookie. Otherwise take the risk of being wrong.

Duvida
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-04-27 17:21:28 UTC
supersexysucker wrote:
CCP sadbox kinda.

lol anyone who gets ganked in a hauler should petition CCP and say HEY IM STILL LEARNING I TOOK A BREAK lul.



Whos up for making trail accounts and can flipping in noob sysytems just because of CCPS dumb rule?



If it's an experienced player in a Hulk (check the training time for a Hulk, it isn't going to be a new player driving that, right?) and you are running a new alt... well, that Hulk shouldn't be attacking new players. I guess it's a risk older players take when trying to hide in newbie systems.

But getting angry and trying to get a rule loophole that allows the griefing of a brand new player, even in the name of 'insert self-righteous cause here', is pretty image destroying. Unless you wanted to have the image of someone that picks on the 1-year-old in the yard because the 2-year-olds are already at 25 pounds and can beat you up, that is. Just FYI What?

CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#72 - 2012-04-27 23:50:37 UTC
Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic and constructive, thank you.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

SghnDubh
BattleClinic
#73 - 2012-05-02 00:37:04 UTC

Makes me want to add a tag to my killboards.

If you show up as the aggressor in a noob system, and the pilot has less than 6 months ingame, you'll get a bully badge. And it may not really be the kind of badge you want people to see.

Just thinking out loud, so to speak...
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#74 - 2012-05-02 02:16:23 UTC
SghnDubh wrote:

Makes me want to add a tag to my killboards.

If you show up as the aggressor in a noob system, and the pilot has less than 6 months ingame, you'll get a bully badge. And it may not really be the kind of badge you want people to see.

Just thinking out loud, so to speak...


If you shoot someone an kill em in the noob system an they're a noob, youll get a ban badge.

Just thinking out loud, so to speak...

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game

Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2012-05-02 03:57:39 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.


first thing I did when I started eve was attack one of those NPC cargo ships that travel from station to station.... I didn't realize it was NPC at the time.
It kicked my never-docked-in-it's life noob ship's buttox.

The second thing I did was undock in another noob ship and find a real player to attack.
They also kicked my ass.

Perhaps I'm not the typical new player. However, I don't believe I'm the only one that would ever try to do such a thing.
In my case, I wasn't upset that they kicked my butt, in fact I expected it.

Personally I don't think there's a better time to let new players know that there is no safe place in eve, than before they subscribe.


This false sense of security you give them only breeds resentment when they ultimately do get ganked in high sec. BUT... because you've protected them while it would be relatively in-expensive, they are surprised when they lose millions or even billions.

Eve players don't need to be molly-coddled. And players that need to have their hand held simply aren't going to like Eve as it is. That's something you really should come to terms with, and either accept it or change Eve.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2012-05-02 04:00:34 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
SghnDubh wrote:

Makes me want to add a tag to my killboards.

If you show up as the aggressor in a noob system, and the pilot has less than 6 months ingame, you'll get a bully badge. And it may not really be the kind of badge you want people to see.

Just thinking out loud, so to speak...


If you shoot someone an kill em in the noob system an they're a noob, youll get a ban badge.

Just thinking out loud, so to speak...



Phineas T. Barnum wrote:
There is no such thing as bad publicity

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2012-05-02 04:06:04 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
ian papabear wrote:
okay so i get the "dont mess with the rookies period" point, but is pvp still allowed in the system? like for example can you pvp with someone who isnt a rookie in that system?

I dont pvp in rookie systems but when i would go to them i would see people pvping outside the staton who arent rookies


Yes, you can still PvP there. You cannot mess with the rookies there, what you do to other people is your own business. Note that dropping your property into space in a rookie system is not a bright idea. If a rookie gets curious ad takes from the can you had better not shoot him. You do not want a rookie to nab your stuff, do not drop the stuff in a rookie system.



What if we bait someone we're mentoring... strictly as part of the mentoring process? Lol

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2012-05-02 04:33:27 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Ris Dnalor wrote:
GM Homonoia wrote:
I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.


first thing I did when I started eve was attack one of those NPC cargo ships that travel from station to station.... I didn't realize it was NPC at the time.
It kicked my never-docked-in-it's life noob ship's buttox.

The second thing I did was undock in another noob ship and find a real player to attack.
They also kicked my ass.

Perhaps I'm not the typical new player. However, I don't believe I'm the only one that would ever try to do such a thing.
In my case, I wasn't upset that they kicked my butt, in fact I expected it.

Personally I don't think there's a better time to let new players know that there is no safe place in eve, than before they subscribe.


This false sense of security you give them only breeds resentment when they ultimately do get ganked in high sec. BUT... because you've protected them while it would be relatively in-expensive, they are surprised when they lose millions or even billions.

Eve players don't need to be molly-coddled. And players that need to have their hand held simply aren't going to like Eve as it is. That's something you really should come to terms with, and either accept it or change Eve.

First off, you were the one who initiated those attacks and got what you deserved.

Secondly, new players in the rookie systems only have a limited amount of missions they can run for those agents.

Thirdly, those agents are teaching new players how to interact with the various aspects of the game.

Last but not least, when those new players do leave the rookie system, they won't be rich or flying millions or billions worth of equipment. As soon as they leave the rookie systems, they probably already know the griefers mantra and if not, they quickly learn 'there's no safe place in Eve'.

Bottom line: Just leave the new players alone, there is more than enough other experienced players in-game for you to duel.
GM Zerat
Game Masters
C C P Alliance
#79 - 2012-05-02 07:17:26 UTC
There is currently a blanket ban on can baiting in rookie systems, I just wanted to bring that up as many players make this mistake.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems
Warning: Can Flipping in Rookie Systems is considered Griefing.

So if you are thinking about can baiting only older players in those systems, please do not.
Fannie Maes
Doomheim
#80 - 2012-05-02 07:40:36 UTC
The GM's have answered OP twice making it perfectly clear, if you still don't get it by now then goodbye and it was nice knowing you...