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CCP - Rookie System Rules Clarification

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Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-04-25 17:51:02 UTC
Okay.. so up until recently the rules for Rookie Systems have been fairly cut and dry.

Quote:
GM Haggis > A reminder to all players that can flipping and can baiting is NOT allowed in Rookie Systems. A full list of Rookie Systems can be found at : http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems
[ quote from GM posted in Local some months ago

Flipping is clear, taking someone else's can, and moving it's contents into your own.. Reason behind it it being that new players would take from your new can to get their stuff back, and then you'd pop them

Baiting was a little more of a grey area, but generally mean any time you dropped a can and then engaged someone who took from it, with the exception being if you were actively mining and using it, or if via local/pm/can name you were making a 1v1 can or something like that.

Now I have heard recently that this has changed

Now almost any action that destroys a new player in a Rookie system is a warn/bannable offence.
If you steal from someone, they engage you, and you destroy them.. you are at risk of a ban
If you kill a npc, wt, etc, and someone steals from you, and you kill them, you are at risk of a ban
etc

I have seen no changes to the EULA or Wiki about rookie system rules
No announcement was made to warn players that the rules have changed, some just woke up to a ban/warning. How is it fair that someone receive a ban/warning for doing something that a few days before was by other GM's own statements, allowed

So what are the exact rules now ? What is a new player ? Does this mean that if you see a blinking red in a rookie system you need to first check their profile before shooting ? What if my account is 6 years old, but I only played for one day 6 years ago and now I'm back, am I still new of am I a valid target now ? What if you have an active war with a corp, and a "new" player is in that corp.. They are still new, are they valid targets

I've heard the phrase is to trick a new player into allowing you to engage.. This is a fairly subjective statement isn't it ? I mean I could go through the belt ratting, leave wrecks, continue to another belt, meet a player that took from one.. It's a red target, and I might have had no intent of tricking.. And now there's a warning just for engaging something that the game mechanics themselves say is valid


Now I'm not against any changes.. I think the old rules had loopholes so big you could fly a titan through.. But I just think the rules need to be made clear.

And if the goal is removing these issues, why not just remove the ability to steal in Rookie systems ? Or disable aggro mechanics there all together ? Rather than what are potentially subjective rules, if the method of enforcement is the same as a week ago, relies on someone Knowing the rules and making a petition to a GM about it

Oh and before people ask or accuse, I don't go around griefing noobs.. Ask anyone in Clellinon.. I have 15+ petitions in my history reporting people for baiting and flipping.. I'm all about protecting the newbies.. But I also think everyone should have a fair chance to know the rules ahead of time. God knows I've had to warn enough veteran players from baiting/flipping because the last time they were in a rookie system it was fine, and because they didn't check for the new rules.. But with no new rules being posted, yet warning/bans being issued, I think that's unfair to punish people for what was permitted actions in the sandbox without first providing them the Information to them to prevent that.. if the EULA/Wikie rules were updated, and no one checked, hey, tough luck.. but if they aren't, then that's just not right


So if a GM would be so kind to shead some light on this, so I and others know what actions should be avoided, or if seen should warrent a petition, I and I'm sure both Rookies, and corps/individuals that reside in rookie systems would appriciate it
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#2 - 2012-04-25 18:01:27 UTC
I do know that it is perfectly acceptable to gank someone in a rookie system because I petitioned the action before I did it (******* AFK Hulk drivers...)

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#3 - 2012-04-25 18:04:20 UTC
Move away from starter systems
Find better targets
??????
Profit!

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?

Maxpie
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#4 - 2012-04-25 18:12:04 UTC
Why are you sitting in the starter system trying to go up to the line without crossing it? Leave the noobs alone. There will be plenty of time to grief those players later, if that's your thing. Don't make them quit before they get the opportunity to appreciate the game.

No good deed goes unpunished

Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#5 - 2012-04-25 18:16:50 UTC
It's not a new rule or new interpretation, it was a reinforcement of what's always been the case at least as long as I've been a player since Aprocrypha in 2009.

Any kind of harassment of noobs in rookie systems is a no no and always has been. Just go one jump over, how hard would that be... Pirate
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-04-25 18:21:12 UTC
Maxpie wrote:
Why are you sitting in the starter system trying to go up to the line without crossing it? Leave the noobs alone. There will be plenty of time to grief those players later, if that's your thing. Don't make them quit before they get the opportunity to appreciate the game.

The only Noob I, or any of my alts ever killed, was when I was a noob myself.. If I, or my alts want a fight, I make my way to Null and get a real one :)

Why do I live in the starter system ? Cause when I'm docked up I rather enjoy helping rookies out with their questions, giving suggestions, etc.. People were nice enough to help me out when I was starting.. And because a Rookie system is big enough to always have an active local chat, without the crap that goes on at mission and trade hubs.. Plus the system is rather centrality located to where I mission, mine, and hauling to hubs..



Well since I started in Nov, I know what was enforced, and what GM's would say was okay/not okay from the many times they showed up in local.. Give what they said at the time, these are new rules, or at least directly contradict what GM's said was okay over Christmas.
Now as I said, I support stronger rules.. a lot of crap was done in Rookie systems "legally".. But I think it's important that the rules get spelled out.
Elder Ozzian
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-04-25 20:07:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Elder Ozzian
In my opinion; When you undock, you are in risk - even in rookie systems! That is the Eve we all love. If they don't understand the warning text when stealing; add a warning box for undocking!

They got warned, didn't they?

Also, give more free skillpoints to new players, so they can actually fight back!

I disagree!

GM Homonoia
Game Master Retirement Home
#8 - 2012-04-25 20:12:31 UTC
I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

Senior GM Homonoia | Info Group | Senior Game Master

Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#9 - 2012-04-25 20:15:37 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.


o.0

Applause!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#10 - 2012-04-25 20:17:54 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.


[troll]but..but.. that describes 50% of the player base[/troll]

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-04-25 20:31:31 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way.

Thankyou for the concise response :)

Could we get some indication of what a Rookie is ?

Maybe not an exact date and time.. but.. Clearly messing with a newbie in a Navitas would be bad.. What about the guy that shows up in a Retty, Cov, Hulk, stripping the belts bare.. Are we allowed to mess with them ?

Or the two month player running scanned sites down, and ratting in the belts.. are the free to steal from or engage if they take from us ?

There are lots of players that pass through at least the Rookie system I base out of, of all ages, skill levels, and intent..
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-04-25 20:34:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigurd Sig Hansen
GM Homonoia wrote:
I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.


Yeah those sociopathic personalities ppl say dont actually exist in this game...

Sentinel Smith wrote:
GM Homonoia wrote:
I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way.

Thankyou for the concise response :)

Could we get some indication of what a Rookie is ?

Maybe not an exact date and time.. but.. Clearly messing with a newbie in a Navitas would be bad.. What about the guy that shows up in a Retty, Cov, Hulk, stripping the belts bare.. Are we allowed to mess with them ?

Or the two month player running scanned sites down, and ratting in the belts.. are the free to steal from or engage if they take from us ?

There are lots of players that pass through at least the Rookie system I base out of, of all ages, skill levels, and intent..


Heres an idea, go to those systems and if you get banned, that was a rookie.

Dont think its THAT hard to figure out who NOT to kill when they GIVE YOU A LIST of systems -.-

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2012-04-25 20:37:07 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

its not a newbie if its in a mining barge right

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-04-25 20:42:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigurd Sig Hansen
Weaselior wrote:
GM Homonoia wrote:
I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

its not a newbie if its in a mining barge right


again...

Heres an idea, go to those systems and if you get banned, that was a rookie.

Actually I think thats a damn good idea for anyone who has further questions when them GM gives you so straight forward an answer

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game

Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-04-25 20:42:33 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Here's an idea, go to those systems and if you get banned, that was a rookie.

Dont think its THAT hard to figure out who NOT to kill when they GIVE YOU A LIST of systems -.-

I live in a rookie system.. and as I said, me, and all my alts have accounted for 1 "newbie" kill, and that was when I was a newbie.. [ first week or so.. ]..

But I also run sites, not uncommon for another player I personally would consider not a rookie to show up and start stealing from the first room while I'm in another.. Valid target in my books, I wouldn't consider anyone who can scan down a Serpentis Watch for example a newbie.. But I donno what I GM would say..

I want to know where I stand.. and I really don't care if people want to troll with "go elsewhere".. I'm quite happy where I am.. and I'll be fine with the rules either way.. but I still want to know..
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-04-25 20:45:06 UTC
Sentinel Smith wrote:
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Here's an idea, go to those systems and if you get banned, that was a rookie.

Dont think its THAT hard to figure out who NOT to kill when they GIVE YOU A LIST of systems -.-

I live in a rookie system.. and as I said, me, and all my alts have accounted for 1 "newbie" kill, and that was when I was a newbie.. [ first week or so.. ]..

But I also run sites, not uncommon for another player I personally would consider not a rookie to show up and start stealing from the first room while I'm in another.. Valid target in my books, I wouldn't consider anyone who can scan down a Serpentis Watch for example a newbie.. But I donno what I GM would say..

I want to know where I stand.. and I really don't care if people want to troll with "go elsewhere".. I'm quite happy where I am.. and I'll be fine with the rules either way.. but I still want to know..


wel... be careful who you kill in that system tyhen. Apparently you take the real chance of getting yourself banned for killing ppl there

Its your choice to remain where youve now directly been warned that you may get banned for killing ppl.... Kinda up to you at this point lol

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game

Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#17 - 2012-04-25 20:45:47 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
GM Homonoia wrote:
I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

its not a newbie if its in a mining barge right

If they are in a rookie system I would say you are wrong. Not everyone is "all in" when they start playing. I certainly wasn't. It may be that they only actually played a few times but skilled up to fly a mining barge. An exumer would probably be a different story... do what you want but I would just avoid rookie systems altogether.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-04-25 20:46:50 UTC
I am careful.. it's also why I'm Asking ... So I know for sure lol

No sense running around blind..
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#19 - 2012-04-25 20:49:21 UTC
The rookie help chat channel auto opens for the first, what, two weeks? Maybe that's a good definition of a rookie.

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Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-04-25 20:50:50 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
GM Homonoia wrote:
I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

its not a newbie if its in a mining barge right

If they are in a rookie system I would say you are wrong. Not everyone is "all in" when they start playing. I certainly wasn't. It may be that they only actually played a few times but skilled up to fly a mining barge. An exumer would probably be a different story... do what you want but I would just avoid rookie systems altogether.


Kinda the idea I was hinting at

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game

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