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New dev blog: Next Unified Inventory Update

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Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#821 - 2012-06-15 17:57:58 UTC
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
Ramman K'arojic wrote:
Soundwave,

Given the vast number of thread-naughts with comments and suggestions from every pod and his dog ; is there are definitive complete authoritative list of improvements that will be made at some point between UI - say between now and end of the year ?

Ramm
This cannot be emphasized enough. While CCP's iterative development method on the Inventory stuff does have "patch notes," it is still entirely unclear on CCP's vision of the end-goal for this client UI functionality.

Making changes until the players are happy is the biggest load of crap any project lead can dish up to their clients. CCP has limited human and financial resources which will constrain this work to a particular scope no matter how much sweet talking is served up.

What basic and absolutely necessary design elements has CCP extrapolated from customer feedback? What are the priority items, what items are nice-to-haves and which items are to be back-burnered / left to rot? At what point does CCP say that its customers are happy with the state of this new interface? And what metrics are used to determine that state?

What is this Inventory system supposed to do better? Why not demonstrate some really excellent and real uses cases where this new UI makes the transition easy and rocks our collective inventory management worlds? Show us your excellent work. Please.


I'll simplify....

Listen to your customers. Take your test server suggestions seriously. People will complain less if you actually listened to them.
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#822 - 2012-06-15 18:03:20 UTC
Citrute wrote:
Jonuts wrote:
Quote:

We did not ignore feedback at all. In some cases we didn't agree. In some cases we did agree and made changes. In some cases we felt that players weren't even giving the new proposed way of doing things a chance and that it might just be a matter of getting used to. It's certain that we didn't get everything right the first time around. That's why we have iteration.


You're right. It's totally our fault. We're all too ******* stupid to tell the difference between "This is different" and "This is garbage". I apologize. I didn't mean to offend your superior sensibilities. How dare us lowly people who actually have to USE this system criticize it.


Quoting from other thread as its still extremely relevant.


quoting the quote for truth.
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#823 - 2012-06-15 18:21:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunas Whisper
MotherMoon wrote:
mrpapageorgio wrote:
Wow CCP, you guys really just don't get it. We don't care how hard it is for you to keep doing these updates. We don't care at all about your next major release. The reason we don't care is because you didn't care about us when you released this abortion you call unified inventory, when countless people told you it wasn't ready. But some idiot at the top (CCP Hilmar) must have told you to push it out because this patch had to have a major feature, even if it was completely broken. This is not how good development works.

I seem to remember Soundwave saying that your number one priority was working on fixing this until we are happy with it. Well guess what, we aren't happy with it. So don't expect any sympathy from any of us about how you can't work on the next "feature" we hate.

Add the ability to add shortcuts to the neocom for any container we want.

Add the ability to disable the total value in the bottom of the window.

Fix the dreadful performance issues.

For the love of all things holy, make my corp hangar tree stay maximized at all times and remember the last division open.

There is a huge list of other things still broken. You should be working on restoring every bit of lost functionality from the old inventory, not whatever awful new "feature" the higher ups want. This game is borderline unplayable for anyone who does logistics.


Who is this we you speak of. I think lots of players care that ccp is putting so much work into fixes, you dont speak for the playerbase, don't even try to think you do.



THe people who +1 the roll back to the old UI, that one of the triple A guys posted. The guys who continually post in dev blogs, in polite and in increasingly frustrated terms what they feel about the customer service and lack of listening to the customer base. Those that posted about it, and were ignored on the test server. That is the we he is talking about.

Also, yelling at him for speaking for others yet doing it yourselfRoll
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#824 - 2012-06-15 18:26:50 UTC
DazedOne wrote:
This is what I was waiting for. I knew without a shadow of a doubt CCP would eventually say screw it and continue back to another feature while leaving this one unfinished. CCP will never learn from their mistakes. A majority of the community are more than fine being beta testers for shoddy features. This is why CCP doesn't care. As long as people continue to pay why would they?

I for one firmly believe if I'm paying for a game I should not be testing their product, or hunting down bugs for them. I should be enjoying my time playing the game. Isn't that what a game is for after all?

Testing should only occur on SiSi. Thats what SiSi is supposed to be for. However, in order for SiSi testing to actually make a difference the Devs MUST listen to the testers. Tippia and several others gave them more than enough feedback on the issues with this new feature. The problem is the Devs are arrogant and do not listen to feedback from their testers. That was obvious when one of the Devs posted about not listening to their feedback.

The only time the Devs care about our thoughts is when they dump a shoddy product on us and we light the torches and flame them here on the forum. Once people unsub is when they care. That unfortunately is the only time they care. Less people are flaming them on the forums now, so this is why they are going back to the hum drum workings at their offices. It is a direct result of the complacency of the community.

All of you can see that CCP has not learned their lesson from incarna. Did you expect anything different? I cancelled all my subs and this one expires in a couple days. I am debating on whether or not to get an in game plex with isk to monitor this debacle for another month. One thing is certain, until this game is fixed I will not open my wallet and give them another penny.

The few of you calling people whiners on here need to take a step back and look at the situation. People are upset that an unfinished product was thrust upon us. We are paying them to test their product. Therefore, of course people are upset. This new UI is crippling those who do industry and manage massive amounts of assets (im not an industrialist), and it is a major blow to guys that salvage their missions. Looting is atrocious. Anything asset related lags with this new UI. This and the lack of the old functionality of the old UI is why people are upset.

It is even more disheartening when we are promised a patch to get this working properly every week until old functionality is restored. We got a couple patches and are now told to basically suck it up for a few more weeks because we want to work on other features. Makes me wonder how bad those features are going to be and whether or not CCP will actually listen to the guys that decide to test the features on SISI for them. After all CCP didn't listen to the testers on this new feature and all of us are paying the price for it.



QFT

This was what happened pre crucible.
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#825 - 2012-06-15 18:29:03 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Your vitriolic hate is doing you no good - we don't listen harder because you call us worse names.

When you guys release stuff that doesn't work, and you ignore tester feedback, this is what happens.

We didn't originate this issue, CCP did.

People are pissed because you guys made a series of compound mistakes (bad enough) and you ignored your most passionate users (much worse). You might not like how people are expressing it, but these tough words from people still subscribed are better for you and CCP than mass unsubscribes.

It's not about people motivating you to work. You're missing an essential part of understanding relationships. People are venting. We have very low expectations for you guys. We are simply expressing our frustration with that state of affairs the only way we can, short of unsubscribing.

The way you make this stop, is to fix the problem, not to lecture us on our tone. Our tone isn't the problem with the inventory.

What I think CCP misses, is that people like Tippia represent us much better than the CSM does, and we (the players) know it. So when you ignore her, you ignore us. And no one likes being in a relationship where they feel (right or wrong) that they are being ignored.


+1
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#826 - 2012-06-15 18:35:22 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Senarian Tyme wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Guys, the team isn't stopping working on fixes and improvements, they are changing their release cadence. Next release in 2 days, then another one 12 days after that. The 12 days (7 days development time) isn't going to spent doing no work! Please, I understand that you are angry, upset, etc. Your vitriolic hate is doing you no good - we don't listen harder because you call us worse names. To those who are still keeping it constructive, thanks, and we are working!


We aren't asking for heads on a spike here (yet), we want stuff working at least as well as before "winferno" went live. If customers demanding a quality product is "vitriolic hate" to you then you are in the wrong business.

If you wish to avoid such reactions you should really think before you and release beta products onto your production server.

Your current implementation still does not meet standards. The fact your teams have been working so hard after release shows just how much additional work is still needed to make it a half way presentable product. If you really want people to stop being so upset, you are going to need to make amends. Simply fixing the system to the point it SHOULD have been at on the day it went live, is not doing this, its least amount of effort. Offering discount resubscriptions is likely to earn some partial good will. But why are we paying at all to do your beta work? I can say you wont be getting another dime out of me (or the vast majority of my corp either) until this is brought back up to a satisfactory level of interaction and performance.



I wish you were speaking for everyone but a fair section of the reponses, even just in this thread, have gone beyond the boundaries of respectability. Customers demanding a quality product is fine, customers demanding hard working peoples' jobs, or calling their personal integrity, skill and commitment into question, isn't in my book. As to the current implementation, that has been addressed numerous times throughout this thread and in the dev blog that the thread comes from so I won't repeat myself and others further.



No actually a fair number of responses in this thread have stayed well within the bounds. I've done customer service for irate customers. Your customers are being very very very polite but they are being very firm about what they don't like.

You not liking their critique is not their problem. You may think this product is shiny, I find it unworkable. I don't want it. You were told on the test server why, how and in other terms why it's broke. You released it, now your customers are flaming mad and your surprised.

You didn't listen. That's no ones fault but CCP's.

btw labelling those who give you hard critiques as vitriolic hatred, is really bad customer service. I highly suggest you guys get some training in this area. It helps with customer retention.
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#827 - 2012-06-15 18:37:11 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
I wish you were speaking for everyone but a fair section of the reponses, even just in this thread, have gone beyond the boundaries of respectability.

Being respectable doesn't solve the problem. Again, you're mixing issues. The tone around here will settle when the problem is solved, probably not before.

That's not fair, and that's not just, but that is how it is. It's like a baby born without legs. It just is. Trying to judge it is pointless. People are anonymous on the internet and they get very arrogant and insulting. This has been going on for about 17 or 18 years, so this sociopathy (particularly in a game community which is driven largely by sociopathic behavior) is going to manifest itself.

I'm not justifying it. I also don't try to justify the movement of the sun, or the effects of gravity.

CCP Goliath wrote:
Customers demanding a quality product is fine, customers demanding hard working peoples' jobs, or calling their personal integrity, skill and commitment into question, isn't in my book.

You're probably right. But again, it's irrelevant, because unless you guys are going to fire your customers or hypermoderate the forum, the best way to put this to bed is to resolve the issues.

The one thing you (and it feels like, some of the other staff @ CCP) keep missing, is that issues come from mistakes on your end, that compromise the playstyle of a lot of players. And people don't just play this game, because it is not a casual game. People invest thousands of hours of their lives, and years of their lives playing it. When someone blows up your ship, it hurts. It is a consequence. When you get scammed, you feel ripped off. You're poorer.

Those same dynamics come into play when you guys monkey with the user experience. You're compromising what people have a substantial investment in.

Again, doesn't justify the behavior. But if you don't understand why it happens, and how you guys have continued to perpetuate it (people wanted a rollback, were ignored) then you will continue to experience it now and in the future.

I don't hate any of you guys. It frustrates me to no end that people who are obviously so bright, won't do the right thing.


Hypermoderating won't do any good, as people will then go to Eve 24 and post their issues. Which will then detract new customers when they use google, from subscribing.
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#828 - 2012-06-15 18:38:58 UTC
Jared Tobin wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Well, no tabs. You do have to use the tree. Think of it as tabs that go down the side instead of across the top.


Yes........ [pausing]

No! Does it look like I have enough patience, time, and (most importantly) "screen real-estate" (room) to fully "use and view the tree"?

screenshot of my typical in-game, in-station screen

Seriously, man?

No, I do not want to use the tree... and I'm not even the guy you responded to, but your response really hit me with a realization that may not be clear to most "players":

Maybe it's easier for semi-typical (new)/casual users, but if you're a CORP CEO and an ALLIANCE EXECUTOR/FOUNDER, you have A LOT more options in the doubleplusungood tree.... and most of it is so far "pushed the right" that I can't see the entire tree without adjusting the separator... EVERY TIME I USE THE "THE TREE".

Also, ironicly, when you open the "CORP" window UI, they still use tabs. For me, technically, there are over 48 tab choices when you run a Corp AND an Alliance.


This.
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#829 - 2012-06-15 18:42:12 UTC
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Senarian Tyme wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Guys, the team isn't stopping working on fixes and improvements, they are changing their release cadence. Next release in 2 days, then another one 12 days after that. The 12 days (7 days development time) isn't going to spent doing no work! Please, I understand that you are angry, upset, etc. Your vitriolic hate is doing you no good - we don't listen harder because you call us worse names. To those who are still keeping it constructive, thanks, and we are working!


We aren't asking for heads on a spike here (yet), we want stuff working at least as well as before "winferno" went live. If customers demanding a quality product is "vitriolic hate" to you then you are in the wrong business.

If you wish to avoid such reactions you should really think before you and release beta products onto your production server.

Your current implementation still does not meet standards. The fact your teams have been working so hard after release shows just how much additional work is still needed to make it a half way presentable product. If you really want people to stop being so upset, you are going to need to make amends. Simply fixing the system to the point it SHOULD have been at on the day it went live, is not doing this, its least amount of effort. Offering discount resubscriptions is likely to earn some partial good will. But why are we paying at all to do your beta work? I can say you wont be getting another dime out of me (or the vast majority of my corp either) until this is brought back up to a satisfactory level of interaction and performance.



I wish you were speaking for everyone but a fair section of the reponses, even just in this thread, have gone beyond the boundaries of respectability. Customers demanding a quality product is fine, customers demanding hard working peoples' jobs, or calling their personal integrity, skill and commitment into question, isn't in my book. As to the current implementation, that has been addressed numerous times throughout this thread and in the dev blog that the thread comes from so I won't repeat myself and others further.


Hi, this comes from a developer who shares your pain and has to deal with costumers like this everyday also.

I've been following these threads, let me say this, you are giving too much talk to these folks, half are trollers the other half are hatters, don't give them wood for their fires. Make your informative posts, say what you have to say on them then stop until you have more information to give. Don't justify your actions, don't argue with these people, just ignore the hate posts, read the ones that are construtive and move on.

At one time I said CCP didn't come to the foruns, now I say you are speaking too much, you don't have to justify your actions/job to us, the clients, you only need to do that to your boss. Much less discuss and explain to us development details and justify why things are done internally, that is not discussable with a client. Give the clients the information they need to know. If, after that, they complain, don't say anything else. Complains are reported to the boss and its the boss who deals with them.

PS: and if you are the boss, then if I were you, I rest my case until I had more information to give out.


Exactly what game do you develop for? So I know which one to avoid spending my hard earned money on.
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#830 - 2012-06-15 18:57:04 UTC
Jonuts wrote:
Quote:
I wish you were speaking for everyone but a fair section of the reponses, even just in this thread, have gone beyond the boundaries of respectability. Customers demanding a quality product is fine, customers demanding hard working peoples' jobs, or calling their personal integrity, skill and commitment into question, isn't in my book.


Then do the job right the first time and don't ignore negative feedback. Most folks posting negative feedback aren't just there to feed their ego's, they're laying out what the problems are. You guys dug your grave here. We're just shoveling the dirt back in on you at this point. This isn't really rocket science guy. Not rolling out universally despised "features" is a no-brainer. If you can't do something that simple, why should we treat you with respect? We pay with certain expectations, and you just violated our expectations like a drunken prom date. Again, we PAY you. You do this FOR PROFIT. Not out of the kindness of your heart. As such, when you monumentally **** up then turn around and tell us we're just too stupid to give it a chance, don't expect a bunch of friendly replies. Especially since we can't man up, grab our nuts (Or ovaries for the ladies) and code this **** ourselves. We're helpless babies. All we can do is make noise until you get off your ass and do your job. This is made all the worse because the entire situation exists only because CCP, in it's infinite arrogance, ignored almost all the feedback on this subject. That's where the hate comes from.


Also, is it really that hard to put the Ship Hangar and Item hangar buttons back on the neocom, and add all the bays back into the right click menus? Why don't we have those back yet? Better yet, why were they ever removed?


qft
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#831 - 2012-06-15 19:11:23 UTC
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:
Tequila Breeze wrote:
When did this become the V3 thread?
So much for staying on subject.


Yep, don't look at the shiney people.

This is the pitchfork and burning torches forum.

Keep jabbing them with pointy sticks.


Pretty much what I thought. The flogging will continue.

Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#832 - 2012-06-15 19:19:26 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Kasriel wrote:
ZaBob wrote:

Your regular release schedule should be on hold right now, to clear the decks for fixing this. The rest of the team can test new stuff on Duality in the meantime, but anyone involved should be focusing on this, and there shouldn't even BE a release schedule until it's addressed.


this. a million times this.


The team involved are only focusing on this, while the rest of the development teams work on their own things (with the exception of some extra manpower that has been loaned to the Uni Inv team while this is ongoing). Duality is unfortunately not an option at the moment as we have accidentally it. Oops


Can we get the CCP white wolf team on this? You know the one that helped during crucible. The team that many players went 0.0 at when a lot of things that for years needed to be fixed got fixed. They were also very good at customer interaction.
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#833 - 2012-06-15 19:37:10 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Par'Gellen wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Par'Gellen wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
To open a container via overview you double click it under the old system. Now that opens it in the tree view. If you want it open in a separate window, shift double click it.
Swap that around and some of us would be happy. Why does this abominiation of a UI try to take control of everything I do unless I hold up the holy cross (shift key)?


The default behaviour is now to use the tree view. For people that are not a fan of this, shift click is implemented to enable them to use separate windows. If you like I will ask the team if mapping these as shortcuts that individual users can customise is an option? (Note, even if this is possible, it will not change the default behaviour)

And you just pointed out the biggest problem with the whole mess. Thank you.


Which I assume you mean to be that you do not want to use the tree view at all on basic principle? The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way.


No, I will not come to terms with it. I want my windows back. I want to see where my darn things are so I can organise and know what I'm making. I need to see where my things are as opposed to a person giving me their stuff, so I can make them a ship. I need to my windows so I can root around the corp tabs to get stuff to my people

Your comment is very condescending CCP Goliath.

It shows for one thing, lack of adaptablity. Your players are telling you in no uncertain tones that your UI, that is your baby isn't working. We don't want your tree. Plant it in the compost pile and give us back the one that works.
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#834 - 2012-06-15 19:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunas Whisper
CCP Goliath wrote:
Par'Gellen wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Well, I would argue that it does, it's just that the tabs are now to the left of the window rather than at the top of the window. Would I be fair in saying that? Yes, it's not exactly the same, but surely we can compromise here in that the functionality has been retained.

You can say whatever you want. Nothing changes the fact that it's harder now. It's more clicks now. It's not intuitive. For God's sake it even requires keyboard input now to do things that before were a single left click of the mouse. If I only open one inventory window a day I could live with that. Multiply it a thousand fold and bask in the glow of the worst UI in the universe.


We're now getting into opinion, but as I say, I will ask the team if rebinding the shift click to be normal click as a shortcut option (note - not default behaviour) is possible.

That's all for me this evening folks. Fly safe.



Yes, your customers opinion. Which is the one that matters in this case.

Btw,
Customer service point, your post is dismissive of the customer and not helpful in customer retention.
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#835 - 2012-06-15 19:48:36 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:
So the tree-view "isn't going anywhere" and shift-clickageddon was created as a workaround for people who don't like squinting and scrolling through dozens of entries on the tree? I can barely read that thing.

Opening the station hangar, ship hangar, and all 7 divisions of a corp hangar previously required three single clicks.
Now it takes 10 shift doubleclicks?
Same efficiency?

Until sufficiently iterated, industrialists have to deal with shift-doubleclicking and pvp'ers get a streamlined system perfect for their needs? Seems reasonable.

Why are we shift-clicking at all? Where were single click and doubleclick when these functions were being assigned. On break? Get my keyboard out of this mess.

On day one of the design process, why was tethering players to the shift key a better choice than the mouse-only right click menus and single-click neocom buttons that were efficient and convenient? I've enjoyed EVE's gameplay being mouse-heavy for a very long time. It's a shame to see that go.

Since shift-doubleclicking 1000x a night just isn't a realistic option for me, that means my only recourse is to learn to love the tree. A tree I can barely read, that I constantly open the wrong divisions of, where I drop things into the wrong hangars frequently, and that has turned my game into a windows filing system. That tree. I can't even find my things using the tree half the time and when I do quickly, I still get a feeling of momentary accomplishment.

With so much to love, it could be a while.

Edit:

Took a break.

Had that ice cream, chocolate. (with hazlenut biscotti)


TL,DR: I look forward to the next patch on June 19.

Yonis Kador


This.
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#836 - 2012-06-15 20:06:20 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Makari Aeron wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it.


Any chance you guys could lock these threads, and just communicate in the threads after each patch? Since all feedback will be based on what has been done, it would make it a lot easier on everyone i believe.


Agreed. And CCP Goliath, for the crap you had to put up with in this thread, I think you deserve a cookie. Sadly, I don't think shipping food Internationally is smiled upon.


It would certainly be pretty mashed up by the time it got to me :)


Probably, because someone who works at the postal systems that would be chosen, has played eve and had to deal with the UI
Haifisch Zahne
Hraka Manufacture GmbH
#837 - 2012-06-15 20:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Haifisch Zahne
REMOVED TO PROTEST CCP's Community Censorship Protocol ("CCCP").
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#838 - 2012-06-15 21:12:52 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Callidus Dux wrote:

Callidus Dux
(no gameplay since 22.05.2012)


At absolutely no point should any hard working developer have to suffer a personal attack for doing the oh-so-terrible-thing of communicating with their customers or changing a feature in a game. Your behaviour in the Inferno 1.1 Sisi Feedback thread was atrocious which is why your posts were deleted. You didn't bring anything but ranting and namecalling to the table, and this is why you didn't get anything constructive.

Your comment about majority is way off. This thread has 113 unique users posting in it. It's called a vocal minority and is very common on forums, and it makes it seem like far more people are angry if you get a 33 page threadnaught going, but the average posts per user in this thread is 4, and 10% of the total posts in it have been made by one user. Approximately 45% of the total posts have been made by the top 10 posters in the thread, of who I am one. Someone trolling our devblog opening is not an indication of "the mood of many players at present". I don't debate that there is a number of people who are disaffected at the moment, but your estimation of their percentage of the player base is grandly overstated.

EDIT: "(no gameplay since 22.05.2012)" All this does is tell me that you haven't tried out any of the fixes and are just soapboxing.



Your being dismissive and condescending again. No customer should have to put up with this. You should apologize.

Two, you obviously haven't worked in customer service because employees do put up with personal attacks. It's your job as a customer service associate to not blow up at customer, sort through the vitriol to get to the issue(usually related to suck customer service before and not getting stuff fixed that they exploded in a ball of rage and now you get to deal and fix the mess) and fix it, and keep the customer, so that your customer retention stays.

You calling the people who do not like the UI a vocal minority is very dismissive of the people. You've had several people unsub, as they've said in this thread. You've had a 70 page threadnaught before saying it sucked. You have test server from page 13 on word saying they dont' like it, You've had a triple A guy start a petition saying they don't want the new UI. This is NOT a vocal minority.

If your getting personal attacks and needing to make more forum rules, it's definately not a vocal minority.

Calling it a vocal minority is condescending and dismissive of your customers and AGAIN shows your lack of respect, and ability to interact with your customers to retain them.

no biscuit.
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#839 - 2012-06-15 21:23:46 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Jackie Fisher wrote:
[quote=CCP Goliath]Your comment about majority is way off. This thread has 113 unique users posting in it. It's called a vocal minority and is very common on forums, and it makes it seem like far more people are angry if you get a 33 page threadnaught going, but the average posts per user in this thread is 4, and 10% of the total posts in it have been made by one user. Approximately 45% of the total posts have been made by the top 10 posters in the thread, of who I am one. Someone trolling our devblog opening is not an indication of "the mood of many players at present". I don't debate that there is a number of people who are disaffected at the moment, but your estimation of their percentage of the player base is grandly overstated.

Maybe it is overstated but maybe gauging the reaction from counting forum posts is not very accurate either.

From the people I know in game there are far more who think the new inventory is currently inferior to the old one to those that prefer it. Most of them appear resigned to putting up with it rather than running to the forums to moan. Obviously this is only anecdotal but I still think you are foolish if you believe the people unhappy with it are a small group.

Will there be a player questionnaire on Inferno like there was on Cruicble?


That isn't how I gauge reaction, I just wanted to prove a point that metrics > hyperbole. I also didn't say they were a small group, I said they were a minority - big difference.[/quote]


Insulting to the player base that is taking their time to give you critiques. Ignoring the many people who have pointed out just how much they find it annoying.

I've read through several of these threads. A few are like oooh shiny, most hate this pile of stinking goo. Do you seriously need to see Pre Cruicible unsubs to understand your customer base is unhappy? CCP is just now getting them back.
Lunas Whisper
Chillwater Ltd
#840 - 2012-06-15 21:28:17 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
Very simple solution. Post a poll on front page of EVE:

DO YOU PREFER THE NEW UI TO THE OLD UI
[ ] YES [x] NO

End of story and speculation.

And of course don't doctor the numbers.

Or someone could just do the poll spamming the link to a third party website in Jita. That way we wouldn't have to question if CCP doctored the numbers.


Or we could get another forum to do this. One that isn't moderated or controlled by anyone at eve.