EVE General Discussion

Because you have a group of players who would love nothing more then to hunt people down to blow up just because they have a tag that says "rookie".

You'd be putting a giant sign on a new player that amounts to "BLOW ME UP".

Joining a wardecced corp = perhaps not so rookie

Can-flipping = confirmed griefing

Both flag you for pvp, both would result in warning messages

Do you understand why some of us could be confused by your use of "common sense"?

Greg Valanti, I don't know where your at in your pirating career. What I'm trying to convey to most people that want to be real pirates, (not the weak bottom feeders) is that when done right in my opinion, there really is quite a lot of isk to be made. But very rarely does it occur in high sec, (some times it does), and I've never seen anyone get rich killing miners and newbys even with 100M isk payouts from goon.

Try infiltrating a medium size corp, earning there trust, then emptying there coffers into your pockets. Really really large isk potential there. Some of the richest players in eve got there fortunes this way.

One last example. I was working with a pirate corp, and joined an industrial low sec corp. They use to mine every Saturday morning. This particular Saturday was D-day so to speak. I was flying a cruiser guarding the mining fleet, as my pirate corp was preparing to invade the system. All my mids were fit with warp scramblers, I scrambled (2) Orcas, and (3) hulks as my friends jumped in to engage. Needless to say, we had a lot of fun, no one ejected that day. But it was a lot of fun, and the take wasn't to bad.

Killing beginners in any fashion really isn't where it's at, in my most humble opinion. Good Luck

A lot of this seems to boil down to people saying
"Don't mess with Noobs" Its SIMPLE!
and the other side saying "Whats a Noob?, whats mess with mean?, it's nto simple!"

To my mind they are both right.

CCCP and for that matter EVE itself, NEEDS new players, just to replace losses nevermind expanding. This is especially true since many experienced players no longer pay to play at all. They have determined (and I think few would disagree) that New players getting tricked, smashed, scammed etc. when they have barely started playing will not help this goal so they are saying "don't do that".
Of course what THAT is and what is a new player is NOT simple, its complex (like the example of "reckless driving" and its the very complexity that is why the rule must be vague.

Does this mean that GMs may make the occasional mistake? Yes. Does it mean that a legitimate target may sometimes get away. yes again, Does it mean honest mistakes may get som warned or banned? also yes. But it still beats all the alternatives.

The level of "protection" for New players is meant to scale. New players just learning the basics will be mostly operating in the New player starting systems so that's where you see the most protection. Even if they venture forth they are still not meant to be legitimate targets for activities that are designed on taking advantage of their ignorace of the games rules.

Recently there has been a lot of problems with griefing in the Epic quest which has caused CCCP to threaten heightened protection tbeing extend this to more systems. This is an outcome virtually no one wants but if the griefing continues or increases that will probably be the outcome.

So what does this mean to a player? You examine the situation, and in the vast majority of cases it will be clear if a player s a new player and if your actions could be construed as "messing with". If your in a new player system obviously you should raise this bar. If you find yourself in what you think is a gray area then you should just not do it. If you think its an action that should be ok and you get warned or banned you can use the systems available to protest.

Is this a perfect system? No but it is "good enough"

Definitely would include the can baiting along with can flipping being a no-no in starter systems, and by that I mean make sure each term is plainly printed.

Maybe put in that new player harassment is handle on a case by case basis.

They all understand you perfectly well, and understand what they were doing perfectly (and by extension what a patethic bunch they all are) but they are never going to admit it, either to you or themselves.

Instead they are going to cry and cry that you've take their ball away.

Just tell them to **** off and grow a pair.

How about:

a straight rule for the vets, using an offical announcement:
* No PvP with, stealing from, can baiting, griefing, spamming, or scamming of new characters who are 14 days or less old in rookie systems.

for the "real" rookies, using a last page after character creation but before entering game (or, if that needs development time, using one of those warning message boxes for system events):
* EVE is based on non-consensual PvP. You will have limited protection from combat and piracy inside your starting system for 14 days. If you leave the starting system or your 14 days expire, you are a valid target and a willing participant.

I had a trial account a year and a half ago, but only turned it into a regular account 13 days ago. Despite my account being over a year old, I have less than a month of playtime.

I wouldn't be surprised if a number of new players are those who've upgraded trials they've had for a while.

While I don't disagree, I will note that this puts a heavy chill on a whole lot of popular Empire Space activities - It's basically creating a 'landmine' problem. If you can't at least approximately identify a 'rookie,' then any aggressive act against a rather broad class of characters risks a ban.

In short - If the minefields aren't marked, who will ever walk in the grass?


So - I agree with the others, we need at the very least a ballpark idea of what constitutes a 'Rookie.'

MotD:

"Don't mess with rookies. A GM may come calling if you do, and if so you had better have a damn good explanation ready."