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New dev blog: Next Unified Inventory Update

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vasuul
BLUE M00N Fetish Group
#781 - 2012-06-14 16:49:16 UTC  |  Edited by: vasuul
oh and this forum thread
is almost all venom toward the UI

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112481&p=70

but again its the VOCAL minority Roll



https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=115340&p=18

more from the vocal minorityRoll

note i am pretty sure there were like 6 different thread on this subject Any of the ones actually started by players
WERE locked and /or marked for trolling

notice i have not yet ,lost my cool or went off into a rage, yet
I have Tried to stay as calm and peaceable as i can
even though i have to admit Phrases like ( Vocal minority) . and comments like ( Well i hope you can come to terms with it )
Do raise my blood pressure to a great degree

I do not in my estimation feel that a simple survey sent out in an e-mail is too much to ask
And i do not understand why such a survey would be a problem seeing as how CCP has all of our E-mail addresses and sends out regular notifications anyway
there is even the wonderful launcher screen that takes you straight to account management they could attach the survey there
Who knows if they did it right , ,,,they might learn something they had not thought of

Alas we will never know
Gainard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#782 - 2012-06-14 17:06:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Gainard
Oh, I almost forgot to mention this:

You (CCP) are not getting any constructive posts anymore, because every possible solution (and some weird stuffBlink) has already been posted a dozen times in all related threads. No constructive reply leaves us just with the option to wine on.

Replies by Goliath are nice and welcome. However he obviously has no power on the matter at hand.

I pity Goliath and really, really wish the guys responsible for this mess called UI would dare to face the wind and speak up here.

As was mentioned befor by Goliath the initial response to the UI on SiSi was positive. However if I recall right, already on the first page was at least one post expressing doubt, even though the UI was only announced, not yet implemented. As Goliath said before, the first 25 pages were positive, then the replies started to sour. I was not there and I do not know, but I wonder, could that change coincide with the UI coming online on SiSi?

Man, I train for certain goals and then the related skills / modules / ships get nerfed. I hate to be addicted to EVE.
Murashu
Dead and Delirious
Brotherhood of Spacers
#783 - 2012-06-14 17:46:18 UTC
I've remained quiet about the inventory issue simply because other people have voiced the same concerns I have since it was first put on the test server. I don't like it. I'm slowly adjusting to it, but it still takes longer to do the most basic functions and having to move my windows where I want them everytime I close/open them is extremely frustrating. Don't even get me started on looting wrecks. /shudder


I once had faith that this broken feature would get fixed in a timely manner, but it's been out for a couple of weeks now with little signs of improvement and CCP appears to be dismissing the complainers as the vocal minority. Do we really need to get all of our corp/alliance members to come tell you they think this feature is broken or worse than the old inventory?


On a different note, I would like to give a shout out to CCP Optimal and see where we stand with getting the date added back to the Neocom? Now that we have the wonderful new unified inventory that everyone loves (except the vocal minority), do you still stand by your statement on removing the date?

CCP Optimal wrote:
We intentionally removed the date. It was initially added to draw attention to the fact that clicking that area would open up the calendar rather than due to anyone feeling that displaying the current date in such a prominent place was necessary. Now, with the new Neocom, the calendar has it's own button making it easily accessible, and the current date is clearly displayed within that window. We don't remove things like these because we're evil, but rather because we don't feel that the information being displayed is important enough to justify taking up valuable screen space.


How can the ISK value of our cargohold be 'important enough to justify taking up valuable screen space', but something useful like knowing the in game date is not?
spiders vengance
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#784 - 2012-06-14 18:36:44 UTC
So I have been trying to adjust to this "better" UI that was crammed down our throats. Things that used to take just a couple seconds now takes minutes. I have been following the forums and I respect the CCP guys for their quick replys but it seems you guys miss the biggest point and that is that a signifigant number of people dont like this new inventory. Its hard to use, moving stuff between corp assets and personal assets, or between containers or ships is slow painfull and just time consuming. I loved my windows they made it quick and easy for me to move stuff around. CCP I know you guys are trying to fix this but when you tell paying customers that do spend the time getting on the forums and giving you feedback one how to make it better that we are a vocal minority and we just have to live with it I reply no we dont have to live with it. We hope that you make it better and more streamlined and user friendly, and I agree calling for heads on the players part isnt the best way for us to give you user feed back and have it listened to, but having you guys time and time again not listening to us just makes us go immidiatly to the name calling and super bitching because its what it takes for you guys to listen to us. You guys say we are a vocal minority then I say put a vote up on the login screen and get a vote from the majority of the player base and dont doctor the results. I can tell you from talking to my corpmates and watching them say afk till the UI is fixed tells me that most people I know dont like the inventory system. If it had been put into the assets screen it woulda been pretty nice, for inventory well its a crime against eve players.
SportBilly
GHOSTS OF THE FIRST AND ONLY
#785 - 2012-06-14 19:27:08 UTC
How many threads are you creating on this UI mess? This is either the 5th or 6th, with around 200 pages between them.

I have cancelled my subscription, unfortunatley i have a few months before it ends as there is no refund from CCP. Seems No to everything these days

All of our corp has quit and only 2 of us have posted. We have quit because the game is no longer playable, excessive lag spinning discs, excessive clicking , you only have to read one of the threads to get the picture. Yes as ive said before if your assets are minor it works ok. if not long winded.

Clue there it belongs in assets not gameplay which should be slick and quick.

There are posts about voting: good idea.

There are posts condeming people for not giving it a chance when they say no game play? well of course there is no game play when you cant play.
It makes me mad waiting for the inventory to count everything, never mind the absurdity of using 2 hands to play, when i only needed one before.
I have logged on after each update to face spinning discs. Therefore NO GAMEPLAY, which is why i have quit.

Mining, manufacturing, inventing has suffered due to changes, the core players of the game are quitting which will change the whole gameplay.

I have loved playing this game and the graphical changes and other updates have been in the most part brilliant.

Speaking to friends in the game and thats quite a few, the consensus is they hate the new UI because it makes simple things you did without much thought a tedious chore.

What more can i say!

On another point : Everyone i know who has played over the years and doesnt now has been emailed with a months free game time, hopefully to bolster the falling numbers of players.
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#786 - 2012-06-14 20:39:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Callidus Dux
I am 'pro' for a voting. But please NOT reachable due the log in screen or the launcher. Because you would miss many players who do not log in anymore. The best solution would be an e-Mail to the owner of the accounts. CCP knows all mail addresses from all owners of the accounts. So send them an invitation for a questionaire. If CCP Goliath claims that no Dev would wast some time to develop an questionare I must ask: How long would it take to evolve such a short list of .. perhaps 10(?) questions? Smile
Dragonzchilde
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#787 - 2012-06-14 21:27:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dragonzchilde
CCP Goliath wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
It appears there are some weird shenanigans going on..

first i posted a poll:
http://gopollgo.com/is-inferno-unified-ui-in-eve-better-than-the-old-ui

i'm looking at it right now. There's 63/8/2/22 vote coming from the UK which works out to 66% fantastic :)
This is the link CCP Goliath replied to. I suspect it was distributed to CCP UK office.

Now if you look at this poll which i modified and it was distributed at 5 major trade hubs:
http://gopollgo.com/is-unified-inventory-in-eve-inferno-expansion-better-than-the-old-inventory

The numbers are completely different
37/55/52/80 for the UK, making it 17/25/23/36% for fantastic/better/worse/terrible

The only plausible conclusion seems to be that CCP actually bothered to doctor the first poll that I posted. I'm not sure why they would bother to do that but I can't think of any other explanation..


While your theory amuses me, I would just like to note that not only did I not tell anyone about this poll, for the reasons that I told you above, but the fact that you cannot accept that anyone at all would vote for one of the good options proves why you should not be running this poll in the first place. Our Newcastle office have better things to do with their time than "doctoring your poll". Also, the fact that you made a second poll just further invalidates your first one, because once people have voted for a poll they are pretty unlikely to vote in a second, nearly identical one.



I wonder why you are still on this thread.

- you have no say in the matter
- you don't have any power to change it
- you are obviously ignoring what is being said
- your witty remarks are all but funny

If you were my employee, you would scraping chewing gum off the pavement for at least a couple of months.

Roll that stupid crap back and start working on the sandbox again.

It's about time you start doing something right again. As far as I'm concerned, since Red Moon Rising all you patches were between bad, worse and utterly terrible

CCP's attitude after each **** up has been a slap in the face. Too bad too many folks fell for the "mea culpa" blog.

CCP's arrogant attitude hasn't changed a bit, no matter how many CCP numpties you have spamming every thread show off how "interactive" you guys are.
Mackenzie Hawkwood
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#788 - 2012-06-14 21:32:19 UTC
Gainard wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Maul555 wrote:
And for everyone else. It appears to be way past time to prod our Alliance and Corp mates into breaking their silence. I, like many of you, have heard complaints from people all over new eden, who never visit the forums. In CCP's mind, silence is approval.

Quote:
EVE System > Channel MOTD changed to: CCP thinks you like the new UI because of your silence. Tell them" by Maul555.


I strongly urge everyone else to do the same


I'd like to clarify at this point that while I used the term "vocal minority" to describe those extremely opposed to the Unified Inventory, I did not infer that everyone who wasn't posting was in favour of it nor did I claim at any point that silence is approval. I was trying to make the point that the many repeat posters were using the term "everyone" or "almost all" to describe those against the change were using those terms erroneously.



Still we, the extremely opposed are there, and yes, we - though of course being not everyone - insist on our grievances being taken care of. There is yet to be proven that the UI is superior to the old system. Do that and I will post one last thing and then shut up: You win, I stupid.

However, I believe it would be a good idea for CCP to consider the extremely opposed not as an annoyance (I know you did not say that) but as a hint that there might be something wrong...


If this is extremely opposed what were the people in the $1000 jeans/greed is good/open the door threadnought during the Incana debacle.
This release maybe working as intended, but that doesn't mean it is good, as one of my Corps haulers I find it faster to pick up corp deliveries by clicking the corp button on Neocom, which remembers to open in the assets deliveries tab, ctl+a, right click, deliver to member and done, far quicker than waiting for the wheel to stop spinning(4minutes at the longest) then fighting my way through the tree.

I am in noway a forum warrior, a check of my posting history will find that I have about 6-7 posts on this subject and about the same for failcarna and maybe 1 or 2 for the T20 incident, so this makes me part of the vocal minority all well and good. I too will be urging my corp members to post their observations in this thread as well as voicing their opinion in the next Survey CCP attaches to their newsletter, due around the 8th of July.

Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that. - Kina Ayami
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#789 - 2012-06-14 21:50:35 UTC  |  Edited by: ZaBob
Dragonzchilde wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
It appears there are some weird shenanigans going on..

first i posted a poll:
http://gopollgo.com/is-inferno-unified-ui-in-eve-better-than-the-old-ui

i'm looking at it right now. There's 63/8/2/22 vote coming from the UK which works out to 66% fantastic :)
This is the link CCP Goliath replied to. I suspect it was distributed to CCP UK office.

Now if you look at this poll which i modified and it was distributed at 5 major trade hubs:
http://gopollgo.com/is-unified-inventory-in-eve-inferno-expansion-better-than-the-old-inventory

The numbers are completely different
37/55/52/80 for the UK, making it 17/25/23/36% for fantastic/better/worse/terrible

The only plausible conclusion seems to be that CCP actually bothered to doctor the first poll that I posted. I'm not sure why they would bother to do that but I can't think of any other explanation..


While your theory amuses me, I would just like to note that not only did I not tell anyone about this poll, for the reasons that I told you above, but the fact that you cannot accept that anyone at all would vote for one of the good options proves why you should not be running this poll in the first place. Our Newcastle office have better things to do with their time than "doctoring your poll". Also, the fact that you made a second poll just further invalidates your first one, because once people have voted for a poll they are pretty unlikely to vote in a second, nearly identical one.


I wonder why you are still on this thread.

- you have no say in the matter
- you don't have any power to change it
- you are obviously ignoring what is being said
- your witty remarks are all but funny

If you were my employee, you would scraping chewing gum off the pavement for at least a couple of months.

Roll that stupid crap back and start working on the sandbox again.

It's about time you start doing something right again. As far as I'm concerned, since Red Moon Rising all you patches were between bad, worse and utterly terrible

CCP's attitude after each **** up has been a slap in the face. Too bad too many folks fell for the "mea culpa" blog.

CCP's arrogant attitude hasn't changed a bit, no matter how many CCP numpties you have spamming every thread show off how "interactive" you guys are.



I think you have it backwards. CCP Goliath is here doing his best. I have a few quibbles (like the message you replied to would have been better unsent), but he's showing up and responding.

The people who really should be -- aren't. So if you were his employer, you'd be punishing the guy showing up and picking up the slack and doing his best for the company.

And if he had half a brain (and I think he does), he'd be out the door in an instant, and never look back.

Now, CCP may not be the best employer, leaving him out there to take the heat. But I hope they're not THAT bad.

Seriously, this is just blind stupid shoot-the-messenger abuse.

You're right to be upset, but you need to aim your fire a bit better.
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#790 - 2012-06-14 21:59:15 UTC
Rock Kicker wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
It appears there are some weird shenanigans going on..

first i posted a poll:
http://gopollgo.com/is-inferno-unified-ui-in-eve-better-than-the-old-ui

i'm looking at it right now. There's 63/8/2/22 vote coming from the UK which works out to 66% fantastic :)
This is the link CCP Goliath replied to. I suspect it was distributed to CCP UK office.

Now if you look at this poll which i modified and it was distributed at 5 major trade hubs:
http://gopollgo.com/is-unified-inventory-in-eve-inferno-expansion-better-than-the-old-inventory

The numbers are completely different
37/55/52/80 for the UK, making it 17/25/23/36% for fantastic/better/worse/terrible

The only plausible conclusion seems to be that CCP actually bothered to doctor the first poll that I posted. I'm not sure why they would bother to do that but I can't think of any other explanation..


Small sidenote for you on this. I just voted 5 separate times on your 2nd poll. I simply closed my browser after voting (which clears all caches), opened it back up, rinse and repeat. So anyone could skew the poll in a matter of minutes...

FYI - I voted 5 times for 'Terrible'. Still have yet to understand why taking 2-3 times longer to do the same tasks is considered 'new and improved'...


I agree that this is a more likely explanation for any anomalies than CCP's conspiracy :) Seems like the tool i used is cookie based.

Still the point is, while it's not a 100% argument, even a 80% true indication that 60% of people don't like it should be enough to put things in motion. The geographic data alone should suggest that the survey wasn't at least heavily skewed by repeating votes (I doubt someone would go as far as spoofing their GeoIP). Every time I'd post the link to 5 local channels in trade hubs i'd see a spike of votes on the page suggesting that most of the visitors were actually unique.
Konstantin Panfilov
Alpha Company
#791 - 2012-06-14 22:06:57 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
You seem to be rather insulted by the term vocal minority, which was not my intention. I don't see what's insulting about the term but I apologise to you if you feel marginalised by it. To me, a vocal minority is just that - a group of people less than the majority that are particularly vocal in their feelings.

I don`t like writing, i like reading, but new UI is worse, is terrible.

CCP Goliath wrote:
The entire point of these devblogs and feedback threads has to been to find out what's wrong so we can make it better.

As to the comments about bugs and my department, you are not well informed on our development processes, so I encourage you to read my upcoming devblog on the topic. I would remind you that while players do indeed submit bug reports and discuss issues on the forum, we also test extensively in-house. Just because bugs get found doesn't necessarily mean there is time to fix them. Please do not make assumptions or talk down about my hardworking, talented department.

I don`t care how CCP departments working, but bugs must fixing and fixing quickly.
Now UI is ONE BIGEST BUG and CCP no fix it.

CCP Goliath wrote:
Remember the difference between bugs and feature requests. Container doesn't open when clicked - bug. Container doesn't open in a separate window when clicked - feature request.

Are you serious?
Old UI - double click to can - can open in new window in saved position and size.
New UI - Double click to can - can open in hangar, in cargo, in other can, not must to be. You say fix this bug - feature request?!

Old UI - open hangar, ship hangar, corp hangar need click ONE button
New UI - hangar, ship hangar, corp hangar never open to ONE click. Is it feature request?!

Old UI - clik button hangar in NewCom - open hangar. Click button "Ship" - open ship hangar. Click button "Corp hangar" - open corp changar.
New UI - if all windows UI close and i click button "Inventory" in NewCom - open CARGO. Why? I need my hangar.
If open window UI and i click button "Inventory" in NewCom - i view list window UI and do nothing.
Where button "Hangar", who always open hangar? - No is it.
Where button "Ship Hangar", who always open ship hangar? - No is it.
Where button "Corp Hangar", who always open corp hangar? - No is it.
You remote functional and when players say come back it - you say is feature request?!

New UI must working equal or better old UI.
Now new UI not working or or working less old UI.
DazedOne
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#792 - 2012-06-14 22:16:00 UTC
Konstantin Panfilov wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
You seem to be rather insulted by the term vocal minority, which was not my intention. I don't see what's insulting about the term but I apologise to you if you feel marginalised by it. To me, a vocal minority is just that - a group of people less than the majority that are particularly vocal in their feelings.

I don`t like writing, i like reading, but new UI is worse, is terrible.

CCP Goliath wrote:
The entire point of these devblogs and feedback threads has to been to find out what's wrong so we can make it better.

As to the comments about bugs and my department, you are not well informed on our development processes, so I encourage you to read my upcoming devblog on the topic. I would remind you that while players do indeed submit bug reports and discuss issues on the forum, we also test extensively in-house. Just because bugs get found doesn't necessarily mean there is time to fix them. Please do not make assumptions or talk down about my hardworking, talented department.

I don`t care how CCP departments working, but bugs must fixing and fixing quickly.
Now UI is ONE BIGEST BUG and CCP no fix it.

CCP Goliath wrote:
Remember the difference between bugs and feature requests. Container doesn't open when clicked - bug. Container doesn't open in a separate window when clicked - feature request.

Are you serious?
Old UI - double click to can - can open in new window in saved position and size.
New UI - Double click to can - can open in hangar, in cargo, in other can, not must to be. You say fix this bug - feature request?!

Old UI - open hangar, ship hangar, corp hangar need click ONE button
New UI - hangar, ship hangar, corp hangar never open to ONE click. Is it feature request?!

Old UI - clik button hangar in NewCom - open hangar. Click button "Ship" - open ship hangar. Click button "Corp hangar" - open corp changar.
New UI - if all windows UI close and i click button "Inventory" in NewCom - open CARGO. Why? I need my hangar.
If open window UI and i click button "Inventory" in NewCom - i view list window UI and do nothing.
Where button "Hangar", who always open hangar? - No is it.
Where button "Ship Hangar", who always open ship hangar? - No is it.
Where button "Corp Hangar", who always open corp hangar? - No is it.
You remote functional and when players say come back it - you say is feature request?!

New UI must working equal or better old UI.
Now new UI not working or or working less old UI.




He hits the nail on the head. You can't call some of the things we used to do and can not do now feature requests. I can understand us wanting something off the wall new added to this thing but come on goliath it is not unreasonable at all to want the usability back like WE USED TO HAVE. I swear this is becoming a friggin joke. How about you just go back where you came from and let us talk to the guys who are trying to polish this turd and maybe just maybe we might get some of the old features back like we had. Going through you is absolutely getting us nowhere fast. We don't need middle men to muck up the process. If you guys listened in the first damn place we wouldn't have this problem.

Can't wait for Mechwarrior online to come out. Then I will officially be done with this crap unless you finally get it through your thick skulls that this new UI is terrible and the OLD USABILITY WE USED TO HAVE IS IMPLEMENTED IN THIS POS.
Jonuts
The Arrow Project
#793 - 2012-06-14 23:31:29 UTC
Dragonzchilde wrote:

I wonder why you are still on this thread.

- you have no say in the matter
- you don't have any power to change it
- you are obviously ignoring what is being said
- your witty remarks are all but funny

If you were my employee, you would scraping chewing gum off the pavement for at least a couple of months.

Roll that stupid crap back and start working on the sandbox again.

It's about time you start doing something right again. As far as I'm concerned, since Red Moon Rising all you patches were between bad, worse and utterly terrible

CCP's attitude after each **** up has been a slap in the face. Too bad too many folks fell for the "mea culpa" blog.

CCP's arrogant attitude hasn't changed a bit, no matter how many CCP numpties you have spamming every thread show off how "interactive" you guys are.


I kinda halfway agree. Nothing against Goliath personally, but I can't help but wonder WHY he is in this thread talking to us. He has no answers, he has no power, and he's REALLY good at insulting all of us on accident. Almost as good as we are at insulting the devs on purpose ^_-

He gives no indication that he's passing on our complaints about the general design, his responses are obviously corporate sanitized statements, being as vague as possible and offering nothing worth knowing. He shows no indication of desire to answer any important question such as WHY we lost Neocom shortcuts, right-click shortcuts, why the new UI is too important to CCP to fail, how they let something THIS poorly executed slip through QA,. You know, anything of importance.

Goliath is an acting mouthpiece in this thread, nothing more, nothing less. Either that, or he toes the corporate line so judiciously that he acts like nothing more than a mouthpiece. Either way, it makes him a terrible choice of representative to talk to the player base. From the player perspective. Being unwilling/unable to answer any difficult question makes him perfect for it from a corporate perspective though. Which is WHY we're stuck with him. After all, we only play the game, we don't deserve to be treated with respect (and our asshatery doesn't help our cause there, but meh, it gets our point across better than a well written statement about how much I love giving the devs a reacharound and how awesome inferno is).

Corporate policy for about ANY company is, your customers have no right to question your decisions, no matter how stupid they are. This is why anything short of mass desertions isn't going to get us answers, and the best we can hope for is that over the course of the next 6 months we MIGHT get buttons back for the Neocom, but probably be **** outta luck for right click shortcuts again.
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#794 - 2012-06-14 23:51:41 UTC
Double clicking for looting and targeting are both not working.
Sloppy Podfarts
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#795 - 2012-06-15 00:00:28 UTC
Konstantin Panfilov wrote:
new UI is worse, is terrible.


New inventory is so much ****.
It should have been stopped in its tracks.
It better be removed or made optional.
WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO US?
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#796 - 2012-06-15 00:06:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
I'd like to know who now owns this project w/in CCP seeing as we are left with a feature that still has defects, that behaves inconsistently and that is causing a signficant minority of customers to take a serious chunk out of their gaming or RL time to communicate on the issues.

Where is the primary CCP stakeholder for this project? And how can we (as clients) and CCP as the service provider work better together to compost this turd into some fine soil?

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#797 - 2012-06-15 00:07:51 UTC  |  Edited by: ZaBob
Jonuts wrote:


I kinda halfway agree. Nothing against Goliath personally, but I can't help but wonder WHY he is in this thread talking to us. He has no answers, he has no power, and he's REALLY good at insulting all of us on accident. Almost as good as we are at insulting the devs on purpose ^_-

He gives no indication that he's passing on our complaints about the general design, his responses are obviously corporate sanitized statements, being as vague as possible and offering nothing worth knowing. He shows no indication of desire to answer any important question such as WHY we lost Neocom shortcuts, right-click shortcuts, why the new UI is too important to CCP to fail, how they let something THIS poorly executed slip through QA,. You know, anything of importance.


Indeed -- when I say, don't shoot the messenger, that doesn't mean things are just fine.

Goliath means well, and is trying, and is brave enough to face the music. All very good qualities.

And all qualities that appear to be lacking elsewhere.

But you know what? Hiding from your users isn't going to make anything better.

Sure, there will be some people who will be less than polite. But most of us simply want to help you make things better. Ignore the first set, and work with the rest of us.
Jonuts
The Arrow Project
#798 - 2012-06-15 00:34:56 UTC
Brave enough to face the music is irrelevant. He either refuses to, or much more likely, has no ability to "face the music". I'm led to believe that he's essentially powerless here. Goliath shouldn't be here to "face the music", unless he gave the green light to deploy the new UI when it was in his power to prevent it. If that were the case, and he were here to "face the music", there would be dialogue about why he felt it was acceptable to deploy something this broken and conceptually flawed, despite the overwhelming negative reaction to it from the people who tested it on the test server. So he's not "facing the music", because if he's a responsible party, he isn't accepting responsibility, or more likely, he's just not a responsible party and has no ability to "face the music" because he personally did nothing wrong.

Quote:
Sure, there will be some people who will be less than polite. But most of us simply want to help you make things better. Ignore the first set, and work with the rest of us.


I would disagree. The less than friendly responses are pretty much essential to highlighting the problems, otherwise everything is far more likely to be ignored. Shrugging at bad service and filling out a customer complaint card is going to have less of an impact than breaking your foot off in the managers ass. Us jerks are vital to bring up the fact that there IS a problem. Once they actually acknowledge that they ****** up and seek to fix what they broke, THEN calmer feedback becomes important. After all, I can hardly tell them how to fix what they broke when I'm too busy shoving my foot so far up their ass that the sweat on my knee quenches their thirst. You need someone sitting there typing out a dissertation about WHY the unified inventory sucks and how to fix it. Since they still seem quite intent on the unified inventory being too important to fail, our asshatery hasn't gotten through their thick skulls yet :)
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#799 - 2012-06-15 00:59:42 UTC
Jonuts wrote:
Brave enough to face the music is irrelevant. He either refuses to, or much more likely, has no ability to "face the music". I'm led to believe that he's essentially powerless here. Goliath shouldn't be here to "face the music", unless he gave the green light to deploy the new UI when it was in his power to prevent it. If that were the case, and he were here to "face the music", there would be dialogue about why he felt it was acceptable to deploy something this broken and conceptually flawed, despite the overwhelming negative reaction to it from the people who tested it on the test server. So he's not "facing the music", because if he's a responsible party, he isn't accepting responsibility, or more likely, he's just not a responsible party and has no ability to "face the music" because he personally did nothing wrong.

Quote:
Sure, there will be some people who will be less than polite. But most of us simply want to help you make things better. Ignore the first set, and work with the rest of us.


I would disagree. The less than friendly responses are pretty much essential to highlighting the problems, otherwise everything is far more likely to be ignored. Shrugging at bad service and filling out a customer complaint card is going to have less of an impact than breaking your foot off in the managers ass. Us jerks are vital to bring up the fact that there IS a problem. Once they actually acknowledge that they ****** up and seek to fix what they broke, THEN calmer feedback becomes important. After all, I can hardly tell them how to fix what they broke when I'm too busy shoving my foot so far up their ass that the sweat on my knee quenches their thirst. You need someone sitting there typing out a dissertation about WHY the unified inventory sucks and how to fix it. Since they still seem quite intent on the unified inventory being too important to fail, our asshatery hasn't gotten through their thick skulls yet :)


I don't think we're disagreeing. I think we're both saying Goliath is not the person who needs to be here taking the heat.

And when I say, "ignore the first set", well, poor choice of words on my part. I mean, don't get all caught up emotionally, don't respond in kind, etc. Acknowledge, apologize, and move on. Really, what I was saying was "be brave".
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#800 - 2012-06-15 01:01:39 UTC
But I'm still very much looking forward to his blog on the development process!