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New dev blog: Next Unified Inventory Update

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ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#701 - 2012-06-13 16:57:14 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:


He wasn't referring to defect feedback, he was referring to feature requests. I'm not a designer or a coder so can't comment on them. Defects are indeed my domain, but I don't control how the teams prioritise their fixes (this will be detailed in the devblog).



I look forward to the devblog...

But I find this to be both a narrow definition of defect and of quality.

I'd say that this entire thing is a *usability defect*, and none of the input are feature requests. And you should start labeling things that are going to **** off the customer base as blocking defects, and start throwing your weight around.

I have a lot of respect for QA. I've run a QA department myself -- possibly even before you were born, though I make no assumptions. I may be part of the "vocal minority" (as distinct from the annoyed-but-silent majority), but I'm on your side. I want you to succeed. As an organization, and you personally.

But sometimes the organizational pressures tend to narrow QA's role away from the only definition of quality that matters -- customer satisfaction. The organizational dynamics make it difficult and risky for QA to stand up and say, "we can't release your new feature because it's not good enough". There are good reasons for that, actually, but sometimes, it's necessary.

Of course, there's lots of ways to put together an organization, and if you are dividing it up into user experience vs defects, then it's the UX director who should be on here responding to feedback, and you get extra points for stepping up to face the irate customers.

But I'm going to lay odds that you don't HAVE a UX director?

Ultimately, however, QA blocking (or not blocking) a bad feature going out is a symptom of a failure upstream somewhere.

So while I think you SHOULD have put on the brakes, based on the totality of the customer feedback on SiSi, that's not where the problem really lies.

Someone started with a pretty cool idea. But between implementation and integration, somehow it bypassed an essential step of gathering usage feedback. SiSi was an opportunity for that, but SiSi is used for a lot of things; it's not an ideal environment for performing UX experiments.

But it could be done. You (CCP) could have put up a series of experiments, starting with just the Unified Inventory, as a standalone window, and iterated until users were happy with it -- then scheduled it for inclusion in a release.

Things would have looked very different then. And everyone, from the guy with the idea, to the people signing off on the release, would have been heroes.

Anyway, I wish you luck and success in resolving this -- and I'll take this opportunity to repeat myself: This would all look just great, if it replaced the Asset window instead of containers.

[And, of course, the obligatory gripe about the forum software eating posts.]
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#702 - 2012-06-13 17:23:54 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:

At absolutely no point should any hard working developer have to suffer a personal attack for doing the oh-so-terrible-thing of communicating with their customers or changing a feature in a game.


While I have lots of advice on how to handle such abuse -- I very much agree.

And personal attacks by players hurt us all. I notice that you're out here handling the heat -- yet the people who came up with this idea are not here, explaining, apologizing, collaborating, or anything.

That says a lot to me. And one of the things it says is -- interactions with your customer base are tricky and potentially explosive.

That's a shame. The most valuable thing a developer can get is good interaction with real customers. And I think interaction with customers during the earlier phases of this was what was missing.

Folks, if we users have spewed so much hostility at developers that they limit their interactions for fear of inflaming us -- whose fault is it?

No, I don't want answers to that rhetorical question; I'm not playing the blame game. I want you to think about what is helpful, and what is not.

We need more interaction, not less.

We need a little more respect, on both sides. But when players fail to recognize that everyone at CCP *wants* to do a good job, even if they've run off the rails, stows the anger, and focuses on helping get things on track again....

...then maybe we can get to a point where developers actually feel they can afford the time and energy to come to the player base for input on design decisions like this.
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#703 - 2012-06-13 17:29:35 UTC
I made an online poll here. Surprisingly it seems that CCP is still not convinced that the UI is bad, both the concept and implementation. I guess we can try to figure out the truth, since the opinion to roll back to old ui that most people here share can be dismissed as "vocal minority".

http://gopollgo.com/is-inferno-unified-ui-in-eve-better-than-the-old-ui

Please vote and spread the word.
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#704 - 2012-06-13 17:39:00 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:

As to the comments about bugs and my department, you are not well informed on our development processes, so I encourage you to read my upcoming devblog on the topic. I would remind you that while players do indeed submit bug reports and discuss issues on the forum, we also test extensively in-house. Just because bugs get found doesn't necessarily mean there is time to fix them. Please do not make assumptions or talk down about my hardworking, talented department.



I have to point out something here.

I know the result of your development process, and I know a lot about development processes in general.

I know that unlike many companies, your revenue stream is not tied directly to new releases. (Yes, there's an impact, but it's not the same as no release = no revenue).

When a feature has a problem that there's no time to fix before a release, there are four options.


  1. Release it anyway.
  2. Hold up the release, and invest additional time.
  3. Hold it back to a future release, and invest additional time.
  4. Drop the feature as not worth the additional investment.


The problem is, you've chosen option #1. Don't you think one of the others would have been better?

When I look at your development process, I'll be looking at it from the standpoint of how it facilitates each of the options. For example, is yanking a feature overly difficult? Does holding up a release cause undue disruption to the company? Does the decision making support making the right decisions?

I've been in your shoes, and had to say, "this is not ready; we will not make our schedule." I've also been in your shoes -- and lost that argument, to the company's later regret.

Every development process is a compromise -- and a work in progress.

You face some unique challenges, so I'm hoping to learn a few new things from your write-up. I'm really looking forward to it.

I hope you learn some things of use to you, too.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#705 - 2012-06-13 17:45:58 UTC
You know what I'm really enjoying right now? The high levels of interest in our development processes. I was slightly concerned that only 3 people would read the blog Big smile

I warn you though, it's going to be pretty dry!

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#706 - 2012-06-13 17:51:01 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
I made an online poll here. Surprisingly it seems that CCP is still not convinced that the UI is bad, both the concept and implementation. I guess we can try to figure out the truth, since the opinion to roll back to old ui that most people here share can be dismissed as "vocal minority".

http://gopollgo.com/is-inferno-unified-ui-in-eve-better-than-the-old-ui

Please vote and spread the word.


OK, I voted, but I don't think it's a good idea, albeit well-motivated.

Mostly, it's a bad idea because of selection bias.

Spreading the word may help alleviate the bias, if the spreading is relatively unbiased. Since you've gone and done it, I may try to spread it within our alliance. There's a bias there, but less than "people who come to this thread to complain".

So far, the results are more positive than I would have expected; if the poll were based on a good sample, that would be even more interesting.

My other problem with the poll is that it is too narrow.

I voted "It's terrible", but if it were integrated with assets instead, I'd have voted positive, myself. And I'd really like to understand what people like (I might learn something I can integrate into my workflow). And it would be helpful to know which aspects people don't like.

I'm going to hold off on broadcasting this, in hopes that CCP Goliath (or someone) would seek out the data in a more careful way, perhaps with more detailed questions and a random sample. I was actually contemplating suggesting it in response to his 'Metrics > Hyperbole' comment.
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#707 - 2012-06-13 17:55:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
ZaBob wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
I made an online poll here. Surprisingly it seems that CCP is still not convinced that the UI is bad, both the concept and implementation. I guess we can try to figure out the truth, since the opinion to roll back to old ui that most people here share can be dismissed as "vocal minority".

http://gopollgo.com/is-inferno-unified-ui-in-eve-better-than-the-old-ui

Please vote and spread the word.


OK, I voted, but I don't think it's a good idea, albeit well-motivated.

Mostly, it's a bad idea because of selection bias.

Spreading the word may help alleviate the bias, if the spreading is relatively unbiased. Since you've gone and done it, I may try to spread it within our alliance. There's a bias there, but less than "people who come to this thread to complain".

So far, the results are more positive than I would have expected; if the poll were based on a good sample, that would be even more interesting.

My other problem with the poll is that it is too narrow.

I voted "It's terrible", but if it were integrated with assets instead, I'd have voted positive, myself. And I'd really like to understand what people like (I might learn something I can integrate into my workflow). And it would be helpful to know which aspects people don't like.

I'm going to hold off on broadcasting this, in hopes that CCP Goliath (or someone) would seek out the data in a more careful way, perhaps with more detailed questions and a random sample. I was actually contemplating suggesting it in response to his 'Metrics > Hyperbole' comment.


I posted it in Jita. Jita should be pretty unbiased i'd say. Besides what makes you think that people who post and read on forums are biased? Because they are more of power users?


I agree that there is more detail to it but the basic problem right now seems to be that CCP doesn't believe that enough people out there really dislike this new UI and would rather go back to the old UI.
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#708 - 2012-06-13 17:56:19 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
You know what I'm really enjoying right now? The high levels of interest in our development processes. I was slightly concerned that only 3 people would read the blog Big smile

I warn you though, it's going to be pretty dry!


Confirming that I am still interested in this devblog (I have no idea how QA in software works aside from reading The Trenches). And, honestly, it'll be helpful from a Sisi-user standpoint to know where exactly my feedback goes so I know how best to word it and what kinds of bugs/missing features to look for.

Don't let the forum warrioring get you down.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#709 - 2012-06-13 17:59:05 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
ZaBob wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
I made an online poll here. Surprisingly it seems that CCP is still not convinced that the UI is bad, both the concept and implementation. I guess we can try to figure out the truth, since the opinion to roll back to old ui that most people here share can be dismissed as "vocal minority".

http://gopollgo.com/is-inferno-unified-ui-in-eve-better-than-the-old-ui

Please vote and spread the word.


OK, I voted, but I don't think it's a good idea, albeit well-motivated.

Mostly, it's a bad idea because of selection bias.

Spreading the word may help alleviate the bias, if the spreading is relatively unbiased. Since you've gone and done it, I may try to spread it within our alliance. There's a bias there, but less than "people who come to this thread to complain".

So far, the results are more positive than I would have expected; if the poll were based on a good sample, that would be even more interesting.

My other problem with the poll is that it is too narrow.

I voted "It's terrible", but if it were integrated with assets instead, I'd have voted positive, myself. And I'd really like to understand what people like (I might learn something I can integrate into my workflow). And it would be helpful to know which aspects people don't like.

I'm going to hold off on broadcasting this, in hopes that CCP Goliath (or someone) would seek out the data in a more careful way, perhaps with more detailed questions and a random sample. I was actually contemplating suggesting it in response to his 'Metrics > Hyperbole' comment.


I spammed it in Jita. Jita should be pretty unbiased i'd say. Besides what makes you think that people who post and read on forums are biased? Because they are more of power users?


I agree that there is more detail to it but the basic problem right now seems to be that CCP doesn't believe that enough people out there really dislike this new UI and would rather go back to the old UI.


That is not a good poll at all. You don't even give the feature its real name, and like ZaBob has said your polling base selection leaves pretty much everything to be desired. I can say categorically right now that that poll will not feature in the slightest in any of our decision making, nor will it change my opinion about the spread of dislike for the Unified Inventory.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#710 - 2012-06-13 18:01:09 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
ZaBob wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
I made an online poll here. Surprisingly it seems that CCP is still not convinced that the UI is bad, both the concept and implementation. I guess we can try to figure out the truth, since the opinion to roll back to old ui that most people here share can be dismissed as "vocal minority".

http://gopollgo.com/is-inferno-unified-ui-in-eve-better-than-the-old-ui

Please vote and spread the word.


OK, I voted, but I don't think it's a good idea, albeit well-motivated.

Mostly, it's a bad idea because of selection bias.

Spreading the word may help alleviate the bias, if the spreading is relatively unbiased. Since you've gone and done it, I may try to spread it within our alliance. There's a bias there, but less than "people who come to this thread to complain".

So far, the results are more positive than I would have expected; if the poll were based on a good sample, that would be even more interesting.

My other problem with the poll is that it is too narrow.

I voted "It's terrible", but if it were integrated with assets instead, I'd have voted positive, myself. And I'd really like to understand what people like (I might learn something I can integrate into my workflow). And it would be helpful to know which aspects people don't like.

I'm going to hold off on broadcasting this, in hopes that CCP Goliath (or someone) would seek out the data in a more careful way, perhaps with more detailed questions and a random sample. I was actually contemplating suggesting it in response to his 'Metrics > Hyperbole' comment.


I spammed it in Jita. Jita should be pretty unbiased i'd say. Besides what makes you think that people who post and read on forums are biased? Because they are more of power users?


It's not that I have reason to think that they're biased.

The fact that they've come here is a selection process. I don't have any reason to think it's NOT biased.

Spamming it in Jita's better than here; that reduces my concern quite a bit.. It also makes those positives less of a puzzle, but more interesting.

I'd like to see it in new player systems -- and god knows, I try not to pay attention to what goes on in Jita local! :)

I also wish it had some indication of player experience level. And type of activity.

Doing a good poll is harder than people think. But even a bad poll is usually better than armchair theorizing or counting posts on a forum thread, and I'm certainly not going to dump on you for wanting to take positive action! :)
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#711 - 2012-06-13 18:10:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
CCP Goliath wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
ZaBob wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
I made an online poll here. Surprisingly it seems that CCP is still not convinced that the UI is bad, both the concept and implementation. I guess we can try to figure out the truth, since the opinion to roll back to old ui that most people here share can be dismissed as "vocal minority".

http://gopollgo.com/is-inferno-unified-ui-in-eve-better-than-the-old-ui

Please vote and spread the word.


OK, I voted, but I don't think it's a good idea, albeit well-motivated.

Mostly, it's a bad idea because of selection bias.

Spreading the word may help alleviate the bias, if the spreading is relatively unbiased. Since you've gone and done it, I may try to spread it within our alliance. There's a bias there, but less than "people who come to this thread to complain".

So far, the results are more positive than I would have expected; if the poll were based on a good sample, that would be even more interesting.

My other problem with the poll is that it is too narrow.

I voted "It's terrible", but if it were integrated with assets instead, I'd have voted positive, myself. And I'd really like to understand what people like (I might learn something I can integrate into my workflow). And it would be helpful to know which aspects people don't like.

I'm going to hold off on broadcasting this, in hopes that CCP Goliath (or someone) would seek out the data in a more careful way, perhaps with more detailed questions and a random sample. I was actually contemplating suggesting it in response to his 'Metrics > Hyperbole' comment.


I spammed it in Jita. Jita should be pretty unbiased i'd say. Besides what makes you think that people who post and read on forums are biased? Because they are more of power users?


I agree that there is more detail to it but the basic problem right now seems to be that CCP doesn't believe that enough people out there really dislike this new UI and would rather go back to the old UI.


That is not a good poll at all. You don't even give the feature its real name, and like ZaBob has said your polling base selection leaves pretty much everything to be desired. I can say categorically right now that that poll will not feature in the slightest in any of our decision making, nor will it change my opinion about the spread of dislike for the Unified Inventory.


Please make a proposal then for what would be a good poll. So far it's not looking good for you and it's going to be harder to dismiss than just "vocal minority". We can rephrase it and start over. This actually sounds to me a bit like you might be afraid to learn the truth? You categorically reject statistics that might be marginally skewed but is appearing to show that more than 50% of players don't like the new UI? Sorry but that doesn't sound like a good decision making process.
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#712 - 2012-06-13 18:13:04 UTC
ZaBob wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
ZaBob wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
I made an online poll here. Surprisingly it seems that CCP is still not convinced that the UI is bad, both the concept and implementation. I guess we can try to figure out the truth, since the opinion to roll back to old ui that most people here share can be dismissed as "vocal minority".

http://gopollgo.com/is-inferno-unified-ui-in-eve-better-than-the-old-ui

Please vote and spread the word.


OK, I voted, but I don't think it's a good idea, albeit well-motivated.

Mostly, it's a bad idea because of selection bias.

Spreading the word may help alleviate the bias, if the spreading is relatively unbiased. Since you've gone and done it, I may try to spread it within our alliance. There's a bias there, but less than "people who come to this thread to complain".

So far, the results are more positive than I would have expected; if the poll were based on a good sample, that would be even more interesting.

My other problem with the poll is that it is too narrow.

I voted "It's terrible", but if it were integrated with assets instead, I'd have voted positive, myself. And I'd really like to understand what people like (I might learn something I can integrate into my workflow). And it would be helpful to know which aspects people don't like.

I'm going to hold off on broadcasting this, in hopes that CCP Goliath (or someone) would seek out the data in a more careful way, perhaps with more detailed questions and a random sample. I was actually contemplating suggesting it in response to his 'Metrics > Hyperbole' comment.


I spammed it in Jita. Jita should be pretty unbiased i'd say. Besides what makes you think that people who post and read on forums are biased? Because they are more of power users?


It's not that I have reason to think that they're biased.

The fact that they've come here is a selection process. I don't have any reason to think it's NOT biased.

Spamming it in Jita's better than here; that reduces my concern quite a bit.. It also makes those positives less of a puzzle, but more interesting.

I'd like to see it in new player systems -- and god knows, I try not to pay attention to what goes on in Jita local! :)

I also wish it had some indication of player experience level. And type of activity.

Doing a good poll is harder than people think. But even a bad poll is usually better than armchair theorizing or counting posts on a forum thread, and I'm certainly not going to dump on you for wanting to take positive action! :)



Yes, I think only nubs read Jita local, so this is probably biased towards new players. More experienced players/power uses who are more likely to vote it down will not read this in Jita local I suspect.
vasuul
BLUE M00N Fetish Group
#713 - 2012-06-13 18:13:34 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
ZaBob wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
I made an online poll here. Surprisingly it seems that CCP is still not convinced that the UI is bad, both the concept and implementation. I guess we can try to figure out the truth, since the opinion to roll back to old ui that most people here share can be dismissed as "vocal minority".

http://gopollgo.com/is-inferno-unified-ui-in-eve-better-than-the-old-ui

Please vote and spread the word.


OK, I voted, but I don't think it's a good idea, albeit well-motivated.

Mostly, it's a bad idea because of selection bias.

Spreading the word may help alleviate the bias, if the spreading is relatively unbiased. Since you've gone and done it, I may try to spread it within our alliance. There's a bias there, but less than "people who come to this thread to complain".

So far, the results are more positive than I would have expected; if the poll were based on a good sample, that would be even more interesting.

My other problem with the poll is that it is too narrow.

I voted "It's terrible", but if it were integrated with assets instead, I'd have voted positive, myself. And I'd really like to understand what people like (I might learn something I can integrate into my workflow). And it would be helpful to know which aspects people don't like.

I'm going to hold off on broadcasting this, in hopes that CCP Goliath (or someone) would seek out the data in a more careful way, perhaps with more detailed questions and a random sample. I was actually contemplating suggesting it in response to his 'Metrics > Hyperbole' comment.


I posted it in Jita. Jita should be pretty unbiased i'd say. Besides what makes you think that people who post and read on forums are biased? Because they are more of power users?


I agree that there is more detail to it but the basic problem right now seems to be that CCP doesn't believe that enough people out there really dislike this new UI and would rather go back to the old UI.




I voted.............. i also posted it in 5 systems in the citadel, and posted it once in eve radio ,
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#714 - 2012-06-13 18:24:40 UTC
Btw i'm not going to repost the link in this thread but only in game. Very few people will read that actual post a couple days from now so it shouldn't bias the stats much.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#715 - 2012-06-13 18:37:07 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
I think I just read that you didn't give a **** about what we said on SiSi unless it was a bug.

Ccp I defend your new item UI, but it is not popular. The majority of players don't like it, that's just a fact. The vocal minority would be those players acting angry and calling for a 100% roll back.

But the majority of us still don't like the new item UI. We wondered why you didn't keep it on sisi untill it was ready, looks like your answer is " oh no, we listened to player feed back, but only bugs, we don't waste our time when every single post on a 4 page thread is negative on the overall direction of the new UI.those are feature request and we don't listen to those"

So... That means you didn't think the rageless feedback that was constructive on the test forums warning you that this would happen......

Do a real poll , man up. You might find while the intention was noble, you failed terribly when it came to how you put it in the game. Windows 7 wouldn't have icons on the desktop over write your windows, it'd just stupid. And has nothing to do with the tree view, the behavior if the new UI is poorly designed. Face the facts, its important in finding what must be done to fix the UI

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#716 - 2012-06-13 18:37:08 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
You know what I'm really enjoying right now? The high levels of interest in our development processes. I was slightly concerned that only 3 people would read the blog Big smile

I warn you though, it's going to be pretty dry!
There may be only a handful of people reading the blog, but they will be very interested to better understand the means by which "stuff" goes out of the door.

For those of us with RL software development and quality assurance experience, it can be extremely frustrating to watch CCP repeatedly shoot itself in the foot with release after release filled with preventable and user-documented defects as well as highly "challenged" designs. Furthermore, there is almost never an 'expansion' that goes by where an existing feature isn't broken or changed in some undocumented fashion. Your customers -- especially your super-users -- notice these things.

There is a disconnect somewhere in the user experience design and acceptance processes. There is also seems to be a disconnect on how users perceive CCP's unwillingness to hold back features or even an entire release before defects are properly sorted. Please help us understand the above.

And there is definitely a serious lack of understanding on how / when CCP QA resources interact with and lead projects. Yes, I tied leadership requirements in with Quality Assurance. If QA resources are not helping to lead the project's direction or do not have the authority to ensure that stuff is done to spec and has stakeholder approval, then CCP has a serious problem.

It has been my experience that QA Engineers (to be differentiated from entry level testing positions) are almost as equally experienced and have authority equal to project leads. When a project loses its way and takes on hydra-like characteristics, it is the lead QA resource and PM who typically reign it in and ensure that what was designed and approved by stakeholders is that which will be delivered.

Does CCP consider its customers to be project stakeholders?

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#717 - 2012-06-13 18:47:28 UTC
Here are some things I'd want to see in a poll. I'm tossing them out there just to contribute ideas; if there's to be a poll, I think only CCP has the resources to do a good job (access to a random sample, for example).


  1. Length of experience
  2. Frequency of play
  3. Types of activities
  4. Number of accounts
  5. How hard was it before (and now) to find your stuff?
  6. How important is quick access to specific containers (cargohold, drone bay, etc.)
  7. Preference among alternatives -- OLD, NEW, STANDALONE, ASSETS (I hope I don't need to explain these here, but they'd need explanation in the poll).
  8. If they like the new, what did they find frustrating about the old?
  9. If they like the old, what do they find frustrating about the new?


I think those last two should be further broken down into some detailed questions, for example, around containers in space, corporate hangers on Orcas, POS-related activity, drone bays, etc.

I actually don't think such a poll would make a big difference to what CCP should do at first, though. I think there's a relatively simple path that would make everyone pretty happy. But I think the detail would help a lot in refining it, knowing what work to prioritize.

I'll also point out I'm not convinced CCP isn't addressing the problem. (Nor am I convinced of the reverse) We're getting a filtered view via CCP Goliath, who has explicitly stated that he's not in a position to speak to what the dev team will do. That leaves neither him nor us in a good position.

But a lot better than if he weren't here.

I'm hoping to get a chance to see the Neocom shortcuts on SiSi, and see how much that helps.

[Usual obligatory gripe about forum software eating posts]
Dennie Fleetfoot
DUST University
#718 - 2012-06-13 18:49:21 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
You know what I'm really enjoying right now? The high levels of interest in our development processes. I was slightly concerned that only 3 people would read the blog Big smile

I warn you though, it's going to be pretty dry!


Are you kidding?

I don't want to put anymore pressure on you here but this dev-blog has the potential to be the most important blog that CCP has put out since Incarna.

I'm serious, Goliath. Make it as dry and as long as you want. Get as much input as you can from the other teams.

This whole episode has brought into sharp relief, the importance of your development process and how it's tied into every aspect of expansion creation and content.

Now I assume it was touched upon and you were present at the round-table on the Saturday of Fanfest 'QA-Team Approach to Quality'. Now, it got buried in the schedule as it was against 'War Declarations' in Tranquility and I think that you need to point out this oversight to the Fanfest team for next year. Had I known then what I know now then, the UNI was well represented in Tranquility and I've come to the QA one. Consider my arse parked on a chair for next years QA round table. Yep I'm coming to Fanfest next year. I'll be the one with the badge saying 'Shove UI up your UNIX', (I mean that light-heartedly by the way) Lol

Like I said, many of us made it clear after extensive testing that UI, from a Eve Players perspective UI was found badly wanting but still it made it to Inferno. With the possible future plans of the launcher including a link to Sisi and the resulting larger pool of players who are likely to try it as a result , understanding that development process is going to be very important so as feedback from us can be better fed back to the dev's and maybe reduce the chances of something like this happening again.

Again, graphs, dull and boring figures and formula, what ever you need to give us an understanding of these process' is going to be well received.

Look forward to it.




CEO Dust University

CPM 1&2 Member

www.twitter.com/DennieFleetfoot
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#719 - 2012-06-13 18:53:42 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
I think I just read that you didn't give a **** about what woe said on Audi unless it was a bug.

Ccp I defend your new item UI, but it is not popular. The majority of players don't like it, that's just a fact. The vocal mintority would be those players acting anrgy and calling for a 100% roll back.

But the majority of us still don't like the new item UI. We wondered why you didn't keep it on sisi untill it was ready, looks like your answer is " oh no, we listened to player feed back, but only bugs, we don't waste our time when every single post on a 4 page thread is negitive on the overall direction of the new UI.those are feature request and we don't listen to those"

So... That means you didn't think the rageless feedback that was contrutive on the test forums warning you that this would happen......

Do a real poll , man up. You might fund while the intention was noble, you failed tertibly when it came to how you put it in the game. Windows 7 wouldn't have icons on the desktop over write your windows, it'd just stupid. And has nothing to do with the tree view, the behavior if the new UI is poorly designed. Face the facts, its important in finding what must be done to fix the UI


I agree. There is most definitely sufficient evidence that something is sufficiently wrong, so that CCP needs to be sufficiently concerned :)
Kasriel
#720 - 2012-06-13 18:57:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kasriel
Dream Five wrote:
Very simple solution. Post a poll on front page of EVE:

DO YOU PREFER THE NEW UI TO THE OLD UI
[ ] YES [x] NO

End of story and speculation.

And of course don't doctor the numbers.

Or someone could just do the poll spamming the link to a third party website in Jita. That way we wouldn't have to question if CCP doctored the numbers.


the results would certainly be interesting, and i think it's quite sad that anybody even remotely involved in this (who was also around last year at least) would not trust CCP not to doctor those numbers. at this point only a completely neutral party would be acceptable to hold a poll such as that, maybe somebody should ask Chribba?

talking this out obviously isn't getting anywhere Goliath is doing a great job at talking to people, but unfortunately it all seems to boil down to "we're right your just making noise because it's new" i've frozen three accounts and have no plans to add any game time to this one. and as you seem to happy to look things up Goliath please feel free to go check my statistics for time in game recently and then try to tell me nothing is wrong and it's all in my head.

it's a shame, i had a lot of hope for EVE after the **** up that was Incarna and you go ahead and do this, regardless of how many people complain on the forums, your processes have failed the EVE community at almost every level and every single CCP employee should be ashamed of that, and the people who are hiding away and making you and soundwave deal with this even more so.

i think it's very silly that it's come to this simply because some people at CCP are so sure that they know best and made the decision to push out something so broken and buggy despite all the test server feedback saying it simply was not ready. i won't be following the forums or dev blogs anymore, there's little point. guess i'll go find something else to spend my free time on