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why don't minerbears just fly with logi?
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#241 - 2012-05-31 17:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
RubyPorto wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Was almost about to press "Like" because you seem to actually want to give advice (even if some of it does not apply too well) but these:

Have YOU tried watching some dumb objects hitting roids for 4-5 hours with nothing going on? You get in a cataleptic state.
Even spamming D-Scan is less boring.

Yes. I didn't enjoy it. I stopped doing it. EvE has Options. You get to pick your poison.


Why should I pick a poison?
You know what? In Entropia there's space combat, since it's a player driven economy (like EvE) but it's linked to a real cash account, when you die you get looted off stuff you (or someone else) paid for with true money.
In comparison EvE is no risk, all you lose is pixellated fiat money.
I am playing Entropia ATM, there's much more risk and it's not sh!t boring at last.
Keep offering poison to the guys who subject themselves to this crud.

I will return to only trade the markets. The only truly free PvP ground in EvE till GS will poop all over it too.


RubyPorto wrote:

For mercenaries you don't know the mechanics you're working with very well, do you?

For paid mercenaries, you aren't all that dedicated to your clients either, if you're not paying attention for the one thing they hired you to pay attention for?


They lost all of 1 hulk while I was in their fleet, over about 1 month. Not too shabby.
But this, only because all the gankers were -10 so they can be shot as they land, if they were subsidized alts like now, I think it'd go worse.


RubyPorto wrote:

In a mining fleet, sitting in a belt, what else are you doing? Besides being mediocre mercs, that is.


A clearly PVP fit combat BC / HAC is there to kill stuff, they are hardly mining.
If PL goes assist a tech moon POS, are they also mining?

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#242 - 2012-05-31 17:56:50 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
You are confusing economy with THE economy.

English can be a confusing language, can't it?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#243 - 2012-05-31 17:58:50 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
You are confusing economy with THE economy.

English can be a confusing language, can't it?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/economy?s=t

I to can link internet sites, only I don't skip the disambiguation page. to try and hide the facts.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#244 - 2012-05-31 18:10:54 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
And generally speaking CCP agrees with them so you can look forward to more concord buffs in the future.


See, this isn't true. If CCP generally agreed with them, ganking would be banned outright, either via instant concord response or by making it impossible to fire on non-wartargets in highsec. Buffing CONCORD is an attempt to please both sides - making it harder to appease the whiners, but at the same time leaving it possible so the core philosophy of the game remains more or less intact.

What's happening now is the whiners have shown their hand - they're not interested in compromise, they want 100% safety guaranteed to them, and nothing short of that will ever be acceptable. This is also the point where CCP is most likely going to ignore them, as further changes go beyond just mechanics and go into changing core game philosophies, and I don't think they want to do that, for any reason.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#245 - 2012-05-31 22:07:12 UTC
Seishi Maru wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Seishi Maru wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
[
Friendship is indeed Magic

Highseccers look at the safety of deep Sov space and don't realize that keeping that safety requires effort on everyone's part.


Dude I am a player that spend 5 years in 0.0. I know how it works. Doesn change the fact that the final security is higher in 0.0 than in high sec. It needs effort .. yes.. but can be raised to a level far more than concord level.


Yes, that's the whole point, Nullesec is the High Effort, High Coordination > High rewards area. HS is the Low Effort, Low Coordination > Low rewards area.

The final safety in both is probably pretty similar. Nullsec has Awoxing, HS had Suicide Ganks. I'll bet that, aside from things like HAG, Awoxing affects a much larger proportion of the Nullsec population than suicide ganking affects the HS population.

Thing is, in HS you can relax and watch anything other than local, like a movie while running missions or something, local you need to actively be paying attention to avoid death by roaming gang (something that HS doesn't really have an equivalent for).

Overall chance of death, similar. Effort expended to achieve that low chance of death, massive difference. The effort is what matters.



its not simply effort. Its the limite. THere is a limti on what you can do in high sec exaclty because systems are too croded for you to pay attention on everyone. While in 0.0 and eve better womrhoel space a group of smart people can keep always vigilant and be almsot imune while not drunk


Short-Range Dscan. Now you get a heads up when someone's warping to your belt. Congrats, you've made your own little local list in a mini system that's less populated.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#246 - 2012-05-31 22:16:58 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Why should I pick a poison?
You know what? In Entropia there's space combat, since it's a player driven economy (like EvE) but it's linked to a real cash account, when you die you get looted off stuff you (or someone else) paid for with true money.
In comparison EvE is no risk, all you lose is pixellated fiat money.
I am playing Entropia ATM, there's much more risk and it's not sh!t boring at last.
Keep offering poison to the guys who subject themselves to this crud.

I will return to only trade the markets. The only truly free PvP ground in EvE till GS will poop all over it too.


Holy crap, picking your poison is a common figure of speach. One Second in Google will let you figure in out if you have English as a second language and don't know idioms yet (if English isn't your primary language, let me congratulate you on some fantastic English). If English is your primary language, you're being intentionally dense.

If you prefer to play Entropia, then by all means play Entropia. I have never said that people should keep playing a game they don't like. In fact, I've been saying that people who don't like the game should play a different one, rather than trying to hammer it into something it's not.

Quote:

They lost all of 1 hulk while I was in their fleet, over about 1 month. Not too shabby.
But this, only because all the gankers were -10 so they can be shot as they land, if they were subsidized alts like now, I think it'd go worse.


The smart miners I know have not lost any Hulks to suicide ganks at all despite not fitting tanks. And this is in HS (so there are bounds on "smart")

Quote:


A clearly PVP fit combat BC / HAC is there to kill stuff, they are hardly mining.
If PL goes assist a tech moon POS, are they also mining?


I dunno, they might be actively fighting something.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#247 - 2012-05-31 22:24:02 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
LOL Lol

A tanked Basilisk squeezes 80k EHP into a sub-cruiser sig radius. Does that need to be nerfed too?
I've heard the argument being made… but unlike the Hulk, at least the Basilisk is a combat ship. Blink


Command ships are combat ships too, but they are rarely on-grid. Why do they need massive tanks?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Selinate
#248 - 2012-05-31 22:25:59 UTC
Morganta wrote:
welp?



because most miner ganking is based on alpha, I assume...
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#249 - 2012-05-31 22:29:24 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
LOL Lol

A tanked Basilisk squeezes 80k EHP into a sub-cruiser sig radius. Does that need to be nerfed too?
I've heard the argument being made… but unlike the Hulk, at least the Basilisk is a combat ship. Blink


Command ships are combat ships too, but they are rarely on-grid. Why do they need massive tanks?


Cause they're on grid all the time in anything other than a POS bash. Gotta jump through gates on occasion, afterall.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#250 - 2012-05-31 22:29:53 UTC
Selinate wrote:
Morganta wrote:
welp?



because most miner ganking is based on alpha, I assume...


It's not. Catalysts are fotm for ganking.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Cloned S0ul
POCKOCMOC Inc.
#251 - 2012-05-31 23:05:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Cloned S0ul
Is more efficienty to use dual box and run mission with alt than using Hulk + useles logistic who only afk or any ship that may rep miner... ofc he may save hulk form kamikaze, but zero profit form camping belt whole day or until somone come and here more chance to losing two ship at once worth 500mil because both are paper.

In most cases miners using alts to increase hauling or mining efficienty because camping minig belt with logistc is boring and no profitable.

Probably every logistic pilot is well skiled, camping belt until random kamikaze visit miner is waste of time and waste of milons skill points puting on alt.

It may works if miners mine while big mining ops, but not for every solo miner.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#252 - 2012-05-31 23:11:51 UTC
Cloned S0ul wrote:
Is more efficienty to use dual box and run mission with alt than using Hulk + useles logistic who only afk or any ship that may rep miner... ofc he may save hulk form kamikaze, but zero profit form camping belt whole day or until somone come and here more chance to losing two ship at once worth 500mil because both are paper.

In most cases miners using alts to increase hauling or mining efficienty because camping minig belt with logistc is boring and no profitable.

Probably every logistic pilot is well skiled, camping belt until random kamikaze visit miner is waste of time.


The Rokh fit I posted has 44k EHP. Most of its price can be recouped from insurance. There is no economic incentive to gank it, and if it does get ganked, the loss is much less than the Hulk loss it prevented.

If you prefer to dual box missions, that's your choice.
If you prefer to prioritize efficiency/ease of mining over safety, that's also your choice.
If you prefer to continue mining and want to avoid suicide ganks, there are well over a dozen ways to do that listed in this thread, each one of those is a choice.

Everyone else has to adapt when other players change tactics, why should miners get a free pass?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Cloned S0ul
POCKOCMOC Inc.
#253 - 2012-05-31 23:30:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Cloned S0ul
Mechanic is broken here no risk vs reward, the risk is big and reward is small, actualy people losing 300mil worth hulks while gankd but they earen only x mil per horur form minig veld... Some people in 0.0 are more safe than miners they run plexes months long with no enemys on local even neutrals, Risk vs Reward is broken espetially for miners in hi sec, Just big bullshit.

Some people can solve this problem by add some ideas, ok logistisc, battleships, what next maybe whole mercenary corporation who protect single miner because all what he can is mining small amount of veld per hour... this all make no sense for me.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#254 - 2012-05-31 23:35:05 UTC
Cloned S0ul wrote:
Mechanic is broken here no risk vs reward, the risk is big and reward is small, actualy people losing 300mil worth hulks while gankd but they earen only x mil per horur form minig veld... Some people in 0.0 are more safe than miners they run plexes weeks long with no enemys on local even neutrals, Risk vs Reward is broken espetially for miners in hi sec, Just big bullshit.

Some people can solve this problem by add some ides, ok logistisc, battleships, what next maybe whole mercenary corporation who protect single miner... this all make no sense for me.


1) Tank your hulks and make it uneconomical to gank them.
2) If you are dissatisfied with the risk you incur for mining (a low effort/low reward activity), change the risk or change the activity.
3) People in 0.0 are safe because they put effort into becoming safe. They changed the risk.

This is a game you CHOOSE to play. Mining is an activity in said game that you CHOOSE to participate in.

I listed nearly a dozen options that will make you all but ungankable that don't involve a single other character, but they take some small amount of effort, so they're ignored.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#255 - 2012-05-31 23:35:46 UTC
Cloned S0ul wrote:
Mechanic is broken here no risk vs reward, the risk is big and reward is small, actualy people losing 300mil worth hulks while gankd but they earen only x mil per horur form minig veld... Some people in 0.0 are more safe than miners they run plexes weeks long with no enemys on local even neutrals, Risk vs Reward is broken espetially for miners in hi sec, Just big bullshit.

Some people can solve this problem by add some ides, ok logistisc, battleships, what next maybe whole mercenary corporation who protect single miner... this all make no sense for me.


Hulks aren't necessary to mine Veldspar (or mine ANYTHING, for that matter). Doing so is your own choice, and a particularly poor one if you aren't willing to go the extra mile to protect it.

You have to face the fact that any time you undock ANY ship in Eve, you're putting it at risk. It's up to you to decide if the economic reward for using that ship is worth it compared to using some other ship - every other activity in Eve has this decision to make. If losing a 300mil Hulk is not worth mining Veldspar for you, then you can switch ships, or mine something else, mine somewhere else (lowsec/null), get a logi pilot (or roll a logi alt) to help you rep. You've got options. If you decide that none of them are good for you, then be prepared to keep losing Hulks. That's not a broken risk/reward, it's just you making really bad decisions over and over again.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#256 - 2012-05-31 23:39:21 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Because working with other players defeats the purpose of playing an MMO (massively multiplayer online) game


That sounds like a real exciting player role. Healing a mining barge just in case someone shoots at it in 2 hours time.


Post of the day.
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#257 - 2012-05-31 23:42:22 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Because working with other players defeats the purpose of playing an MMO (massively multiplayer online) game


I prefer to think of this as a MSWAO
Unintelligablegibberrish
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#258 - 2012-05-31 23:42:47 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Tank your hulks and make it uneconomical to gank them.


Tank doesn't matter someone will gank it.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#259 - 2012-05-31 23:49:59 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:


Holy crap, picking your poison is a common figure of speach. One Second in Google will let you figure in out if you have English as a second language and don't know idioms yet (if English isn't your primary language, let me congratulate you on some fantastic English). If English is your primary language, you're being intentionally dense.


I learned English by reading MUDs descriptions and chatting with English people (our schools did not teach it at the time).
I did get the figure of speech meaning, I just used a latin derived rethoric figure based on repeating the argument focus phrase.


RubyPorto wrote:

If you prefer to play Entropia, then by all means play Entropia. I have never said that people should keep playing a game they don't like.


They sure put in all the possible effort to make people not like EvE any more.
I play EvE since 2008 (on another character) and love most of it. Sadly I am completely, irrimediably incompatible with self appointed dictators directing their guys into injecting a sentiment of ideological oppression and discrimination into a game.
You are part of the scheme, notice how you assimilated their lexicon. Below you call your HS miners "smart" between "" as sarcastic tone. You don't have the right to disrespect people for their paid entertrainment tastes.


RubyPorto wrote:

The smart miners I know have not lost any Hulks to suicide ganks at all despite not fitting tanks. And this is in HS (so there are bounds on "smart")


You don't always get to work for the elites.

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Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#260 - 2012-05-31 23:52:17 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You don't have the right


5 words that no Eve player who actually knows what game they're playing should ever, EVER use.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["