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why don't minerbears just fly with logi?
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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#221 - 2012-05-31 15:54:46 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Morganta wrote:
welp?




logi are just as nice a target.. and require an added account... Have you tried mining on multiple accounts since the new inventory mess? It's a lag fest at best... even 3 accounts is not useful due to lag and cumbersome inventory workings.


Really, a Rokh with cheaper fittings and twice the EHP of your hulk is a nice target?

Don't run another account, get a friend.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#222 - 2012-05-31 15:56:06 UTC
Morganta wrote:
so what I taking away from this thread so far is

defending yourself or your mining pals is far too boring and or unpossible with your craptastic skills

miners just want single player eve, well that is until it comes time to sell the goods, then miners want millions of players to provide them with a robust market to get rich off of

is this about right?


Yup.

Shall we remind miners that there is a magical PvP-free haven for them?

I will. It's called SiSi. Enjoy the market.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Calydarix Blackmoor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2012-05-31 16:05:42 UTC
Actually it does sound like Ruby is being helpful, sorry.

That's one of the other amazing things about EVE. Real PVPers realize that the game is more fun when people fight back. i cant tell you how many times I have had good convo, and gotten great tips from Pilots who just blew me out of space.

Change your mindset, stop getting hung up on the fact that your plans didn't work out exactly the way you wanted, and adapt, embrace the unknown, because that IS the content of the sandbox !! You will be amazed at how rewarding it is when it works out for you !

~C
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#224 - 2012-05-31 16:06:33 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Boschenaar wrote:
I like to mine rocks, why?

It's peacefull, i listen to music, enjoy the beautifull scenery, make a little ISK.
Does Hulkageddon prevents that? not really, i found other ways to mine.



Since you're actually trying, I'll give you a tip. A repper will do nothing to foil a gank attempt. Your best bet is to go for straight buffer.


This and it's what amazes me, that this thread made 12 pages.
People really have no idea what buffer means 9 years in to EVE and what 40% resist damage means for damage in EVE.

Even with a 25K EHP Hulk, the buffer isn't there.
"The bullet didn't make it to my heart, it only punctured a lung".

I'm still dead.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#225 - 2012-05-31 16:08:51 UTC
Skydell wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Boschenaar wrote:
I like to mine rocks, why?

It's peacefull, i listen to music, enjoy the beautifull scenery, make a little ISK.
Does Hulkageddon prevents that? not really, i found other ways to mine.



Since you're actually trying, I'll give you a tip. A repper will do nothing to foil a gank attempt. Your best bet is to go for straight buffer.


This and it's what amazes me, that this thread made 12 pages.
People really have no idea what buffer means 9 years in to EVE and what 40% resist damage means for damage in EVE.

Even with a 25K EHP Hulk, the buffer isn't there.
"The bullet didn't make it to my heart, it only punctured a lung".

I'm still dead.


You can make hulks absolutely uneconomical to gank. That's as much as you can ask from any ship.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#226 - 2012-05-31 16:17:51 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Don't run another account, get a friend.


Guy #1: Hey, I heard you wanted to try EVE. I can give you buddy invite.
Guy #2: Oh, nice. Thanks!
...
Guy #1: So, do you like it?
Guy #2: Umm... I don't know what to say. I thought there would be more shooting. Is this really EVE?
Guy #1: Yes, this is EVE.

RubyPorto wrote:
You can make hulks absolutely uneconomical to gank. That's as much as you can ask from any ship.


Suicide gankers always say ganking is good for economy...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#227 - 2012-05-31 16:28:46 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
I wouldn't fit guns to it. It's a support ship, not a combat ship.
It's a combat ship. Without combat, there is nothing for it to support.

Quote:
Suicide gankers always say ganking is good for economy...
It is. Just look at how much money is being shuffled back and forth, especially now that the goons have added their incentive scheme.

Andre Altor wrote:
Hulk is not "fine" as it is, because "properly tanked" is useless as mining ship,
Really? How are you using its highslots then? I can't think of anything that would fit there that would improve its tank.

No. A properly tanked Hulk can mine just fine.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#228 - 2012-05-31 16:31:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It is. Just look at how much money is being shuffled back and forth, especially now that the goons have added their incentive scheme.


Then, how is ganking tanked Hulk 'uneconimical'?
Lustralis
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2012-05-31 16:40:21 UTC
What the hell happened to Eve Forums? They used to be reasonably entertaining/interesting to read. Now the FP is full of giggling kids either whining about mining or pulling themselves off about it.

Get over yourselves Roll.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#230 - 2012-05-31 16:48:28 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Don't run another account, get a friend.


Guy #1: Hey, I heard you wanted to try EVE. I can give you buddy invite.
Guy #2: Oh, nice. Thanks!
...
Guy #1: So, do you like it?
Guy #2: Umm... I don't know what to say. I thought there would be more shooting. Is this really EVE?
Guy #1: Yes, this is EVE.

RubyPorto wrote:
You can make hulks absolutely uneconomical to gank. That's as much as you can ask from any ship.


Suicide gankers always say ganking is good for economy...


You're intentionally misunderstanding me. In both cases.

Case 1: Get a friend means talking to your corp and saying "hey gaize, lets mine, but someone should sit in a Rokh so our tanked hulks can be reasonably safe" If you invite a RL friend to play a game simply to get him to help you with a boring, menial task, you are a terrible friend.

Case 2: There is no way to unintentionally misunderstand those two sentences and get that response unless you're an idiot. Quod Erat Demonstratum: You are an Idiot.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#231 - 2012-05-31 16:50:52 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
It is. Just look at how much money is being shuffled back and forth, especially now that the goons have added their incentive scheme.


Then, how is ganking tanked Hulk 'uneconimical'?


Ganking the tanked hulk costs between 80 and 400m Isk, depending on your choice of ships and the number of pilots availible. The Hulk will drop an average of ~10m isk in loot, a generous ~15m isk in salvage, and 10m Is in GSF bounty. That's 35m Isk in revenue minus 80-400m isk in expenses, for a loss of 45-365m Isk.

EDIT: The reason ganking is profitable is because miners are, by and large, stupid, greedy, and lazy, so they fit no tank and either 2x MLUIIs or 2x Cargo expanders. Their tank is terrible, so it only takes 1-2 catalysts to kill them.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#232 - 2012-05-31 16:59:01 UTC
Seishi Maru wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
[
Friendship is indeed Magic

Highseccers look at the safety of deep Sov space and don't realize that keeping that safety requires effort on everyone's part.


Dude I am a player that spend 5 years in 0.0. I know how it works. Doesn change the fact that the final security is higher in 0.0 than in high sec. It needs effort .. yes.. but can be raised to a level far more than concord level.

Best argument I have seen yet for removing CONCORD Cool

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#233 - 2012-05-31 17:07:31 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
It is. Just look at how much money is being shuffled back and forth, especially now that the goons have added their incentive scheme.
Then, how is ganking tanked Hulk 'uneconimical'?
Get a dictionary. Roll
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#234 - 2012-05-31 17:08:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
RubyPorto wrote:
Ganking the tanked hulk costs between 80 and 400m Isk, depending on your choice of ships and the number of pilots availible. The Hulk will drop an average of ~10m isk in loot, a generous ~15m isk in salvage, and 10m Is in GSF bounty. That's 35m Isk in revenue minus 80-400m isk in expenses, for a loss of 45-365m Isk.

EDIT: The reason ganking is profitable is because miners are, by and large, stupid, greedy, and lazy, so they fit no tank and either 2x MLUIIs or 2x Cargo expanders. Their tank is terrible, so it only takes 1-2 catalysts to kill them.


Economy isn't just about profits and how wealthy you are.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#235 - 2012-05-31 17:15:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
RubyPorto wrote:
Ganking the tanked hulk costs between 80 and 400m Isk, depending on your choice of ships and the number of pilots availible. The Hulk will drop an average of ~10m isk in loot, a generous ~15m isk in salvage, and 10m Is in GSF bounty. That's 35m Isk in revenue minus 80-400m isk in expenses, for a loss of 45-365m Isk.


In addition to this, the GSF payout only goes to the person who got the killing blow, so only one ship of however many will see the benefit of that.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
#236 - 2012-05-31 17:28:58 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Seishi Maru wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
[
Friendship is indeed Magic

Highseccers look at the safety of deep Sov space and don't realize that keeping that safety requires effort on everyone's part.


Dude I am a player that spend 5 years in 0.0. I know how it works. Doesn change the fact that the final security is higher in 0.0 than in high sec. It needs effort .. yes.. but can be raised to a level far more than concord level.


Yes, that's the whole point, Nullesec is the High Effort, High Coordination > High rewards area. HS is the Low Effort, Low Coordination > Low rewards area.

The final safety in both is probably pretty similar. Nullsec has Awoxing, HS had Suicide Ganks. I'll bet that, aside from things like HAG, Awoxing affects a much larger proportion of the Nullsec population than suicide ganking affects the HS population.

Thing is, in HS you can relax and watch anything other than local, like a movie while running missions or something, local you need to actively be paying attention to avoid death by roaming gang (something that HS doesn't really have an equivalent for).

Overall chance of death, similar. Effort expended to achieve that low chance of death, massive difference. The effort is what matters.



its not simply effort. Its the limite. THere is a limti on what you can do in high sec exaclty because systems are too croded for you to pay attention on everyone. While in 0.0 and eve better womrhoel space a group of smart people can keep always vigilant and be almsot imune while not drunk
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#237 - 2012-05-31 17:42:58 UTC
The very idea of doing anything other than doing their chosen isk generating activity by themselves (working with other people means sharing and sharing means less isk/hour) in a ship fitted to produce the absolute maximum isk per hour is anathema to carebears.

Working with others for mutual benefit = Unacceptable
Fitting your ship differently to increase survivability = Unacceptable
Flying a different ship that isn't an attractive target = Unacceptable
Actually paying attention while playing the game = Unacceptable

The game and everyone playing it must change to accommodate their playstyle, even if it means diminishing the sandbox quality of the game.

And generally speaking CCP agrees with them so you can look forward to more concord buffs in the future.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#238 - 2012-05-31 17:47:59 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Ganking the tanked hulk costs between 80 and 400m Isk, depending on your choice of ships and the number of pilots availible. The Hulk will drop an average of ~10m isk in loot, a generous ~15m isk in salvage, and 10m Is in GSF bounty. That's 35m Isk in revenue minus 80-400m isk in expenses, for a loss of 45-365m Isk.

EDIT: The reason ganking is profitable is because miners are, by and large, stupid, greedy, and lazy, so they fit no tank and either 2x MLUIIs or 2x Cargo expanders. Their tank is terrible, so it only takes 1-2 catalysts to kill them.


Economy isn't just about profits and how wealthy you are.

You are confusing economy with THE economy.

English can be a confusing language, can't it?

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#239 - 2012-05-31 17:48:59 UTC
Seishi Maru wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Seishi Maru wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
[
Friendship is indeed Magic

Highseccers look at the safety of deep Sov space and don't realize that keeping that safety requires effort on everyone's part.


Dude I am a player that spend 5 years in 0.0. I know how it works. Doesn change the fact that the final security is higher in 0.0 than in high sec. It needs effort .. yes.. but can be raised to a level far more than concord level.


Yes, that's the whole point, Nullesec is the High Effort, High Coordination > High rewards area. HS is the Low Effort, Low Coordination > Low rewards area.

The final safety in both is probably pretty similar. Nullsec has Awoxing, HS had Suicide Ganks. I'll bet that, aside from things like HAG, Awoxing affects a much larger proportion of the Nullsec population than suicide ganking affects the HS population.

Thing is, in HS you can relax and watch anything other than local, like a movie while running missions or something, local you need to actively be paying attention to avoid death by roaming gang (something that HS doesn't really have an equivalent for).

Overall chance of death, similar. Effort expended to achieve that low chance of death, massive difference. The effort is what matters.



its not simply effort. Its the limite. THere is a limti on what you can do in high sec exaclty because systems are too croded for you to pay attention on everyone. While in 0.0 and eve better womrhoel space a group of smart people can keep always vigilant and be almsot imune while not drunk

Find an uncrowded system maybe?

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#240 - 2012-05-31 17:52:14 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
The very idea of doing anything other than doing their chosen isk generating activity by themselves (working with other people means sharing and sharing means less isk/hour) in a ship fitted to produce the absolute maximum isk per hour is anathema to carebears.

Working with others for mutual benefit = Unacceptable
Fitting your ship differently to increase survivability = Unacceptable
Flying a different ship that isn't an attractive target = Unacceptable
Actually paying attention while playing the game = Unacceptable

The game and everyone playing it must change to accommodate their playstyle, even if it means diminishing the sandbox quality of the game.

And generally speaking CCP agrees with them so you can look forward to more concord buffs in the future.

Luv2Buff (Concord)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?