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Is the penalty for suicide-ganking too high?
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Hrothgar Nilsson
#81 - 2012-05-31 12:49:11 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Keia Nomesteturj wrote:
The fact that suic ganking is so prevalent suggests that the penalty is too low. Continue to fix the loopholes and increase the penalty. At present, committing a space "felony" in hisec is equivalent to getting a parking ticket and ignoring it.


Does your Car get blown up by the Police when you ignore a parking ticket? If so, where do you live, I want to visit.

Not many people drive a $0.03 car. If so, show me where you live.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#82 - 2012-05-31 12:50:15 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Many posts are appearing of late asking if the penalty for suicide-ganking is too low. From the gankees point of view, it probably is. They lost a ship. I will now put to you the other side of the argument.
Suicide-gankers blow people up for many reasons. It may be for profit, in response to a player event or in many cases, they do it simply because it's fun[ny]. Now lets talk about penalties.

The gankee loses a ship & it's mods, plus whatever else resides in the cargohold.
The ganker loses a ship & it's mods, whatever resides in the cargohold, sec status, gains a 15 minute GCC timer, can be shot by anyone for the duration & receives no insurance payout. Can you really say the penalties are too low?


They are.

The SS penalty should be higher and farming SS back shouldn't be the joke it is but an extreme and tedious work to achieve opposed to how hard it is to gank someone, but CCP and common sense are two different things Lol

If you want to shoot whatever with no consequences you should go to null, thing is that you need some brains to go there and do stuff while high sec ganking is a no brains stuff and this is what real Eve is about.

Here's how to populate low/null sec, revert SS and concord presence in between actual SS systems/zones. Lol

The penaties you recieve for repeated ganking or just ganking are the most balanced in the whole game.

Its just risk vs reward. Exhumer pilots want more reward so they go mine in there hulk, the hulk is worth ganking so up goes the pilots risk.

If you want a safer life ask for less reward mine in a covetor or a Battleship.


I don't mine in the first place

The main difference between you and me is that I decided to go there were real stuff happens, where risk vs reward means something, while you keep putting words you have no clue about and come out with speeches how your internet life is so awesome.

You should go live in null, there are plenty of targets out there, but I guess you rather dock asap as soon as a cloaky stuff appears in your local.

Go play on your sandbox with your 10 YO friendies and move on to null if someday you grow a pair Lol

brb
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#83 - 2012-05-31 12:54:11 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Many posts are appearing of late asking if the penalty for suicide-ganking is too low. From the gankees point of view, it probably is. They lost a ship. I will now put to you the other side of the argument.
Suicide-gankers blow people up for many reasons. It may be for profit, in response to a player event or in many cases, they do it simply because it's fun[ny]. Now lets talk about penalties.

The gankee loses a ship & it's mods, plus whatever else resides in the cargohold.
The ganker loses a ship & it's mods, whatever resides in the cargohold, sec status, gains a 15 minute GCC timer, can be shot by anyone for the duration & receives no insurance payout. Can you really say the penalties are too low?


They are.

The SS penalty should be higher and farming SS back shouldn't be the joke it is but an extreme and tedious work to achieve opposed to how hard it is to gank someone, but CCP and common sense are two different things Lol

If you want to shoot whatever with no consequences you should go to null, thing is that you need some brains to go there and do stuff while high sec ganking is a no brains stuff and this is what real Eve is about.

Here's how to populate low/null sec, revert SS and concord presence in between actual SS systems/zones. Lol

The penaties you recieve for repeated ganking or just ganking are the most balanced in the whole game.

Its just risk vs reward. Exhumer pilots want more reward so they go mine in there hulk, the hulk is worth ganking so up goes the pilots risk.

If you want a safer life ask for less reward mine in a covetor or a Battleship.


I don't mine in the first place

The main difference between you and me is that I decided to go there were real stuff happens, where risk vs reward means something, while you keep putting words you have no clue about and come out with speeches how your internet life is so awesome.

You should go live in null, there are plenty of targets out there, but I guess you rather dock asap as soon as a cloaky stuff appears in your local.

Go play on your sandbox with your 10 YO friendies and move on to null if someday you grow a pair Lol


Sometimes you need a break from HIGH DRAMALAMA pvp and just want to shoot something. Having a gank alt doesn't mean you don't do conventional pvp.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-05-31 13:25:45 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Sometimes you need a break from HIGH DRAMALAMA pvp and just want to shoot something. Having a gank alt doesn't mean you don't do conventional pvp.

i'm sorry but this is hard to believe in. It's like professional boxer will go and beat to death little child on the street just to "get a break and just shoot something". Cool Either you a warrior or "bad boy"....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#85 - 2012-05-31 13:29:25 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Sometimes you need a break from HIGH DRAMALAMA pvp...


What creates all that drama you feel the need to take a break from?

Wouldn't be "risk", would it? Blink
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#86 - 2012-05-31 14:03:39 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Sometimes you need a break from HIGH DRAMALAMA pvp and just want to shoot something. Having a gank alt doesn't mean you don't do conventional pvp.

i'm sorry but this is hard to believe in. It's like professional boxer will go and beat to death little child on the street just to "get a break and just shoot something". Cool Either you a warrior or "bad boy"....



It's more like a Professional Boxer getting a massage; ganking is relaxing and has a happy ending guaranteed while ::effort::-real-PvP (no such distinction, but v0v) is less relaxing.

I'm neither a warrior nor a bad boy; I'm simply terrible at eve and enjoy varied activities. Your analogy falls apart because ganking is explicitly allowed; murdering children isn't allowed at all (and is kind of terrible, don't you think?).

Ganking is playing a game within its rules. If you don't like the activity, or find it distasteful, that's perfectly fine. Don't partake.

Malphilos wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Sometimes you need a break from HIGH DRAMALAMA pvp...


What creates all that drama you feel the need to take a break from?

Wouldn't be "risk", would it? Blink


Note the "Sometimes." The miners are whining that they want to escape risk at "All Times."

Bit of a difference.

Anyway, no the thing that you need an occasional break from is effort. It takes much less effort to kill miners than it does to force PvP. That's still not no effort, but it's less. It's the new version of gatecamping.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-05-31 14:51:34 UTC
Haldor Rune wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:
Loss of the gankers ship is no loss.


If it's not a loss, why do they lose it?

It's a monetary loss, but some people like to argue in terms of utility - the satisfaction a ganker receives from ganking - which is immeasurable. Abstract concept gain outweighs quantifiable ISK loss... right. It does, to some extent, which is why ganking occurs at all, but it's no way to make an argument about changing game mechanics.


Its not a loss its a calculated expense
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2012-05-31 14:55:52 UTC
Zyress wrote:
Its not a loss its a calculated expense


Every single loss in Eve is a calculated expense. If you aren't thinking about that before you press Undock then you really don't "get" Eve.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Mangold
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
#89 - 2012-05-31 14:56:35 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Mangold wrote:
And tbh, all crap about miners can defend themselves against gankers is utter bullshit.


I was unaware that actually tanking an Exhumer instead of going for max cargo/max yield & staying aligned was utter bullshit.

Thank you for bringing this up.


Hello.

Happy to be of service. Considering how clueless you appear to be maybe I should considering tutoring you.

Staying aligned in a Exhumer is so going to work when you mine. And of course tanking a Hulk is really doable Roll Wow, it's going to take another destroyer to kill it. What a difference.

Don't make yourself look even more stupid then you are.

/Mangold
Hortense Sledgemallet
Doomheim
#90 - 2012-05-31 15:00:38 UTC
If you destroy someones material and the police know about it you will be locked up. Thats how a justice system works and thats how it should work in Eve. If you dont then Concord is just a joke.
This should equate to a high sec ganker being locked into low sec when he commits a crime - low sec becomes the prison.

Destroying a ship in high sec that costs less than 50 mill ISK you should be locked out of high sec for 24 hours.
100 mill - 48 hours
200 mill - 72 hours
300+ mill - 96 hours
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#91 - 2012-05-31 15:03:47 UTC
Hortense Sledgemallet wrote:
If you destroy someones material and the police know about it you will be locked up. Thats how a justice system works and thats how it should work in Eve. If you dont then Concord is just a joke.
This should equate to a high sec ganker being locked into low sec when he commits a crime - low sec becomes the prison.

Destroying a ship in high sec that costs less than 50 mill ISK you should be locked out of high sec for 24 hours.
100 mill - 48 hours
200 mill - 72 hours
300+ mill - 96 hours


EvE blows you up instead of Locking you up. Seems more severe to me.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-05-31 15:04:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Mangold wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Mangold wrote:
And tbh, all crap about miners can defend themselves against gankers is utter bullshit.


I was unaware that actually tanking an Exhumer instead of going for max cargo/max yield & staying aligned was utter bullshit.

Thank you for bringing this up.


Hello.

Happy to be of service. Considering how clueless you appear to be maybe I should considering tutoring you.

Staying aligned in a Exhumer is so going to work when you mine. And of course tanking a Hulk is really doable Roll Wow, it's going to take another destroyer to kill it. What a difference.

Don't make yourself look even more stupid then you are.

/Mangold


I actually know what I'm talking about here, because I once was a miner. I also never lost an Exhumer. You can stay aligned at a mere 20-25% of your max speed. When random person in a destroyer appears on your overview, he or she can't get an immediate lock on you. In that time, you press the warp button & are gone before you get scramed. All the while, staying within range of whatever rock you're mining.

I understand that this may be too much effort for you though. The simple fact is (I'm pretty sure I brought this up before), people are too lazy to to take the few simple precautions that they can take to have a great chance of avoiding a gank. Meanwhile, miners that do take precautions are thriving.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Hortense Sledgemallet
Doomheim
#93 - 2012-05-31 15:07:35 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Hortense Sledgemallet wrote:
If you destroy someones material and the police know about it you will be locked up. Thats how a justice system works and thats how it should work in Eve. If you dont then Concord is just a joke.
This should equate to a high sec ganker being locked into low sec when he commits a crime - low sec becomes the prison.

Destroying a ship in high sec that costs less than 50 mill ISK you should be locked out of high sec for 24 hours.
100 mill - 48 hours
200 mill - 72 hours
300+ mill - 96 hours


EvE blows you up instead of Locking you up. Seems more severe to me.



No.
The punishment does not fit the crime in that case because the criminal expects and doesnt care if he's blown up.
Mangold
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
#94 - 2012-05-31 15:07:44 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Mangold wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Mangold wrote:
And tbh, all crap about miners can defend themselves against gankers is utter bullshit.


I was unaware that actually tanking an Exhumer instead of going for max cargo/max yield & staying aligned was utter bullshit.

Thank you for bringing this up.


Hello.

Happy to be of service. Considering how clueless you appear to be maybe I should considering tutoring you.

Staying aligned in a Exhumer is so going to work when you mine. And of course tanking a Hulk is really doable Roll Wow, it's going to take another destroyer to kill it. What a difference.

Don't make yourself look even more stupid then you are.

/Mangold


I actually know what I'm talking about here, because I once was a miner. I also never lost an Exhumer. You can stay aligned at a mere 20-25% of your max speed. When random person in a destroyer appears on your overview, he or she can't get an immediate lock on you. In that time, you press the warp button & are gone before you get scramed. All the while, staying within range of whatever rock you're mining.

I understand that this may be too much effort for you though.


Nope. You just showed how little you know. It takes time to accelerate up to be able to warp.

I still call bullshit on your arguments.

Btw, nice killstats you have. Roll
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-05-31 15:11:25 UTC
Mangold wrote:
Nope. You just showed how little you know. It takes time to accelerate up to be able to warp.

I still call bullshit on your arguments.

Btw, nice killstats you have. Roll


25% to 75% takes about 4 seconds. You see a target appear on the overview from over 250km.

Thanks, I like losing ships on my alt :p

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
smokess
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-05-31 15:11:36 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
As long as suicide ganking is possible, the penalties will always be "too low."


Quite a few people have liked this. I wonder how many people liked it because they didn't pick up on the intended meaning of "too low".

Amuses me.
Mangold
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
#97 - 2012-05-31 15:20:54 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Mangold wrote:
Nope. You just showed how little you know. It takes time to accelerate up to be able to warp.

I still call bullshit on your arguments.

Btw, nice killstats you have. Roll


25% to 75% takes about 4 seconds. You see a target appear on the overview from over 250km.

Thanks, I like losing ships on my alt :p


Oh really. Everytime some random muppet tries to say he knows his way around pvp and you check their pathetic kill stats they always post with an alt and have some pvp god main. Amazlingy enough that name is always secret.

Btw, here's a link for you. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sensor_Booster_II

Have fun.
Mangold
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
#98 - 2012-05-31 15:23:12 UTC
On a serious note. I actually think that ganking should be possible in high sec.

I do think that the security status drop should be much higher or that the time to increase your security status should be longer. It's way to easy to gank someone in high sec or in low sec and rat up the security status. Done it myself more times than I can remember.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#99 - 2012-05-31 15:32:09 UTC
Hortense Sledgemallet wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Hortense Sledgemallet wrote:
If you destroy someones material and the police know about it you will be locked up. Thats how a justice system works and thats how it should work in Eve. If you dont then Concord is just a joke.
This should equate to a high sec ganker being locked into low sec when he commits a crime - low sec becomes the prison.

Destroying a ship in high sec that costs less than 50 mill ISK you should be locked out of high sec for 24 hours.
100 mill - 48 hours
200 mill - 72 hours
300+ mill - 96 hours


EvE blows you up instead of Locking you up. Seems more severe to me.



No.
The punishment does not fit the crime in that case because the criminal expects and doesnt care if he's blown up.


So the criminal has adapted to the rules of the game, huh?

Miners can also adapt to the rules of the game and the frequency with which they have negative encounters with other players.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#100 - 2012-05-31 15:33:34 UTC
Mangold wrote:
On a serious note. I actually think that ganking should be possible in high sec.

I do think that the security status drop should be much higher or that the time to increase your security status should be longer. It's way to easy to gank someone in high sec or in low sec and rat up the security status. Done it myself more times than I can remember.


except I can still gank people even when -10, just takes a bit more work and synchronization to do so,