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New dev blog: This Week In The Unified Inventory

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Haifisch Zahne
Hraka Manufacture GmbH
#301 - 2012-05-28 18:24:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Haifisch Zahne
REMOVED TO PROTEST CCP's Community Censorship Protocol ("CCCP").
Khadann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#302 - 2012-05-28 18:28:03 UTC
Poor soundwave, apologising every 2 lines and giving candies around : "please don't unsub, here is some patch coming"

Feels again like an hostage situation where ccp has no choice but to kneel :s
Maul555
Xen Investments
#303 - 2012-05-28 18:30:11 UTC
I need my right click on ship > open hangars and bays to be back, and for them to open in a new window that remembers itself...
SoHo White
Etoilles Mortant Ltd.
Solyaris Chtonium
#304 - 2012-05-28 18:30:54 UTC
andyminer wrote:
I have been reading the Forums and have posted twice before about how the player base hates the new Inventory system. Today we had CCP's reply, they are going to tweak the new UI over the next few weeks until we the player base are happy with it. Repeated calls for the new UI to be taken back to SISI and worked on there have been ignored. Hundreds of posts asking for the old UI or at least for us to be given an option to turn off the new system have also been ignored.
I personally now feel that I can't play this game in a way that I have become used to over the last seven years that I have owned my accounts. I am not interested in how the game looks or wether the missiles look nice when you fire them, all I want to do it to be able to navigate around my inventory windows quickly and easily like I used to be able to do.
So, until this update is removed or an option is given to turn it off, I feel that I don't want to play this game anymore and have just parked my six accounts. That means that you have lost over a thousand pounds a year income from me (if you include the GTC's I buy) and you will probably see more people doing this. Most of my corp mates are feeling the same way as me and these are players who have supported your game for years.
I urge you to listen to your player base and scrap this awful update.


I feel exactly the same way about this !


I can't see tweaks making that much of a difference to the overall effect.


I appreciate that times change and that the inventory system was probably due a refreshed UI, but the one you have given us although it has a few good ideas, doesn't work as efficiently or as easily as the old one.
It's no good telling us that you will improve the performance and fix / tweak it here and there when fundamentally it isn't a good interface.
Fraa Bjorn
Cell 317
#305 - 2012-05-28 18:39:18 UTC
Please roll back the inventory.

All games have QQ, but only Eve has Q.Q
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#306 - 2012-05-28 18:54:57 UTC
Why did you have to let things get this bad before acting (or even go live). Its disappointing really, you had so much feedback on the test server to this end, surely you must have seen the sh*t storm that was heading your way ? everybody else did and tried to tell you.

Tal




Nukleanis
Falcon Advanced Industries
#307 - 2012-05-28 19:00:39 UTC
CCP Optimal wrote:
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why.


I have translated this, with added cake:


CCP: "I've just force-fed you a cake It was chocolate."

Player: "I don't like chocolate cake."

CCP: "Try it. You might like it."

Player: "You've just rammed a cake down my throat. I couldn't NOT try it. I still don't like chocolate cake and I like you even less for taking fistfuls of cake and hurling them down my throat."

CCP: "Well, it's the only thing you're getting, I'm afraid. Hubris. Lol."

Player: "Seeing as I'm effectively paying you to force cake on me, I could always just stop paying you to foist stuff I don't want on me and go elsewhere."


To contribute, however:

What don't I like about the new UI? Looting. I would keep the UI open while looting, but it is HUGE. Even if I remove the tree, opening a wreck just changes my cargo window into the wreck window. I could loot all, but what if I don't want some scrap metal? How am I supposed to see how much space is in my cargo hold while looking at a wreck and prioritise what I take from said wreck without extra clicks and use of the tree view?

Also, in my hangar I have 9 containers. I like containers because they open new windows, plus I'm higher brain function deficient and I like huge things to click on. With two windows open I can drag objects around and automatically stack objects. Now I have to drag an object to a tiny, wee entry on the tree, wait for it to swap the main window view and then continue moving the object. It takes twice as long to move things around.

If you want some really helpful advice, then add an option to double click something in the tree and have it open a new window that remembers the size and position.
Tavis Guildstern
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#308 - 2012-05-28 19:00:43 UTC
Okay, a new inventorysystem,

After half an hour curesing, it has some good points.

Whit shift + click i can open it in a seperat window whitout tree.
Why can't i open my cargo from the UI the icon beside the cap. whit shift + click in a sep. window ?

Why is there no open cargohold in the right click menu?

If i loot cans und pop them, why choose the inventory System a Random Corphanger, to display ?
That is realy anyonig you looting cans whit a ship whit a corp hangar and the last can pops and the inventory let you look at your own Corphanger Cargohold or inside a POS of the POS-Moduls.

Whit a pretty please, shortcuts, and the abiltiy to store the window position, in my Hulk there is one place i need the cargobay and one place where i need my can window.

The tree view works great if you have to handel several cans.


Maul555
Xen Investments
#309 - 2012-05-28 19:30:40 UTC
Jed Clampett wrote:
vanillacherry wrote:
Can you make shift-clicking something open up in window that doesn't have the tree on it so I don't need to shift-click my cargo icon twice to just have my cargo open up where I want it and then close the main window?



And how about using the pin mechanism or something to say "don't mess with this window -- no updating which container it points to"

If pinned (or whatever) additional click on UI items should be forced to open a new window or find a UI window that is not pinned down.



No.... Any existing window, regardless of its pinned state, should never be hijacked for any reason. I only use pin to make things transparent, and I don't want to have my remembered windows tied to a visual feature that I don't use for most things!
T's little helper
Doomheim
#310 - 2012-05-28 19:32:22 UTC
I know CCP want "constructive feedback" rather than thousands of players shouting "Restore the previous UI!!!"
I know CCP want ideas how to improve the new UI instead.
The problem is, that no matter how much you improve a rotten egg it's still rotten. You can salt and pepper it, you can decorate it, you can put it in a nice egg cup and call it a delicacy, but it's STILL a rotten egg, it's still a rotten UI.

The most constructive feedback i can provide is "Restore the previous UI" and then hope that CCP can take the next day off, go to the bar and get so drunk that they'll forget that this new unified garbage ever existed.

There wasn't anything wrong at all with the previous UI, it worked exactly the way it should.
If you never saved a backup of that code, then restore it, recode it, make it as identical as possible to what it was.
When you get to THAT point, you can start considering additional functionality to it on the test server and DO listen to the feedback this time!
I did provide feedback from the singularity testing here, but for what use...

From the day the new UI went active, i've drastically reduced my time in eve, it's simply no fun to use the game anymore.
I do log on, mainly to check on skill queues, idle a bit, maybe chat a few minutes and do some small stuff, the rest just isn't tempting to do anylonger.
Dawnmist
#311 - 2012-05-28 19:39:00 UTC
Captain Praxis wrote:
CCP Optimal wrote:

*Hubris*


I was pretty optimistic over the weekend after reading CCP Soundwave's posts as it seemed that CCP were going to be addressing my concerns and restoring the lost functionality.

Now, after seeing CCP Optimal's post, I'm getting the feeling that CCP may not be as committed as I had thought to sorting out the issues.

Can we get a concrete answer as to whether the following features are definitely going to be re-implemented?

1) - Persistent multiple windows that remeber their size, position and function over session changes and log-outs/log-ins

2) - Separate Ship Hangar & Item Hangar buttons on the Neocom by default (or the ability to add them if they are not default), that open said hangars in separate windows (without a tree), at the same size/position as when they were last open

3) - Having wrecks and cans open in individual windows (without a tree), all at the same size/position as when they were last open

4) - Having the Open Cargohold button on the in-space HUD open the ship's cargo hold in a separate window (without a tree), at the same size/position as when it was last open

5) - Restoration of the missing right-click functions (e.g. Open Drone Bay, Open Fuel Bay, etc...)

You may have noticed the subtle hints above that I hate using trees for navigation. I don't even use the tree in the Market window unless there's no other option to find what I'm looking for.


This exactly.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#312 - 2012-05-28 19:52:20 UTC
disasteur wrote:
Logicycle wrote:
CCP Optimal wrote:


I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible).



lies.


its not an option because you dont want it to be an option? (my guess is that the code is to deep integraded in the entire system?)
technically impossible? not true a complete roleback has done before (how many days that took for you to consider?) would be strange if in case of an emergency you couldnt restore it, but ok what ever you say
is a roleback desireable? guess not cus then the other half will start to complain.....


how about this, in station the new look and feel, with the suggested modifications, in space more like the old look and feel?

yup just go up and red my post, it literally takes 3 changes to keep the new UI and the old. It's so easy I could code it.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Perramas
DreddNaut
#313 - 2012-05-28 19:52:29 UTC
Cut CCP some slack they are pros, remember they sold 52 monocles from the Nexon store the first day! CCP knows what they are doing you all just need to eat some rancid ram balls and drink lots of beer to see the vision CCP has for EVE.

Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people- Eleanor Roosevelt

Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#314 - 2012-05-28 19:52:37 UTC
T's little helper wrote:
From the day the new UI went active, i've drastically reduced my time in eve, it's simply no fun to use the game anymore.
I do log on, mainly to check on skill queues, idle a bit, maybe chat a few minutes and do some small stuff, the rest just isn't tempting to do anylonger.


Same here, I really cannot be arsed with this crap.

I am sooo glad that I did not take out the year-long subscription a few months back. Something told me that the new "We are listening to the players" CCP would fall flat on its face sooner or later.

3 days until 2 of my accounts expire, they will not be renewed.

2 weeks until the other 3 expire, the clock is ticking.....
Par'Gellen
#315 - 2012-05-28 20:00:31 UTC
Here is another issue that needs to be resolved with the new inventory UI. Please see this screenshot for detailed explaination.

http://www.neoncranium.com/inventory2.jpg

Here is the link to the previous screenshot in case it was overlooked.

http://www.neoncranium.com/inventory.jpg

Devs, please consider these changes. I beg you.

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...
Jandahl Callis
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#316 - 2012-05-28 20:04:39 UTC
Some idle speculation to ponder while waiting for Tuesday's patch:

Hypothetically, suppose that the surveys referenced as the justification for changing the UI are from people who did not continue to play after the initial trial period, or let their subscriptions lapse after a month or two. In other words, lost new sources of revenue for CCP.

Let’s further suppose that the demographics of these lost revenue sources matches up pretty well with the potential new players of Dust 514 that are not already EVE subscribers. Do you think CCP is going to want to convert these people to EVE subscribers? Do you think that the potential Dust 514 sales will eclipse the current EVE subscriber base?

So, if the new Unified Inventory is easier for new players, or at least usable for someone that has no experience with the old Inventory system, and CCP believes the old inventory system was costing them new subscribers, here is an interesting question. Will the people who ragequit be offset by the increase in retained trials/new subscriptions, especially in light of the expected influx of people newly exposed to EVE from Dust 514?

I don’t think that this, by itself, would be business justification for CCP’s behavior. If you add in an old code base, some dev arrogance, and stir in some data from the Incarna fiasco letting CCP know how many of that ragequit armada eventually came back, the result might not be too bitter to swallow.

Yes, I know many people who are leaving have multiple accounts. CCP know that, too. If they have confidence in their assumptions, and the numbers work, it’s actually a straightforward business decision. Cold. Hard. Business.

tl:dr - You, my very vocal Capsuleers (and ex Capsuleers), may be acceptable casualties. Hypothetically.

I am a causal player, with no POS and Corp hangers to worry about. I’m also in the middle of a three month renewal, so I’m queuing up a level V skill, keeping an eye on the oh-so-entertaining forums, and logging in after a couple of the promised weekly patches are released to see if things are any better.

What I will be looking for: looting to be fixed, intelligently persistent windows, no lag, and NO need to use a key combination with my mouse to get basic things done. +1 to all of the posts that have covered these things. Hopefully CCP will exceed my simple needs.
SillyWaif
#317 - 2012-05-28 20:08:14 UTC
T's little helper wrote:
...

From the day the new UI went active, I've drastically reduced my time in eve, it's simply no fun to use the game anymore.
I do log on, mainly to check on skill queues, idle a bit, maybe chat a few minutes and do some small stuff, the rest just isn't tempting to do any longer.

^^ this.

Captain Praxis wrote:

1) - Persistent multiple windows that remember their size, position and function over session changes and log-outs/log-ins

2) - Separate Ship Hangar & Item Hangar buttons on the Neocom by default (or the ability to add them if they are not default), that open said hangars in separate windows (without a tree), at the same size/position as when they were last open

3) - Having wrecks and cans open in individual windows (without a tree), all at the same size/position as when they were last open

4) - Having the Open Cargohold button on the in-space HUD open the ship's cargo hold in a separate window (without a tree), at the same size/position as when it was last open

5) - Restoration of the missing right-click functions (e.g. Open Drone Bay, Open Fuel Bay, etc...)

You may have noticed the subtle hints above that I hate using trees for navigation. I don't even use the tree in the Market window unless there's no other option to find what I'm looking for.

This would help ^^^

I don't mind new stuff but the Unified Inventory is truly a game-play-stopper :(
N3LLY
Reverberation Inc
#318 - 2012-05-28 20:15:40 UTC
Account Expires02 June 2012 - 2:29 pm (in 4 days)


thing better get better times running out 1 account out of time this ones almost gone aswell Sad

missioning & looting is a nightmare

all i want is my multiple windows for looting/salvaging back
hangers in station to return the two main buttons to return to my 2 windows

opening any container opens a new window Roll

IF YOU CAN DO THIS FOR THE PATCH I CAN STOP RANTING PLEASE LISTEN Roll

[b]UI IS CRAP GET RID AS SOON AS POSSIBLE P.S. [/b]CAN I GET A REFUND FOR LOST GAME TIME ?
Par'Gellen
#319 - 2012-05-28 20:45:47 UTC
Captain Praxis wrote:

1) - Persistent multiple windows that remember their size, position and function over session changes and log-outs/log-ins

2) - Separate Ship Hangar & Item Hangar buttons on the Neocom by default (or the ability to add them if they are not default), that open said hangars in separate windows (without a tree), at the same size/position as when they were last open

3) - Having wrecks and cans open in individual windows (without a tree), all at the same size/position as when they were last open

4) - Having the Open Cargohold button on the in-space HUD open the ship's cargo hold in a separate window (without a tree), at the same size/position as when it was last open

5) - Restoration of the missing right-click functions (e.g. Open Drone Bay, Open Fuel Bay, etc...)

You may have noticed the subtle hints above that I hate using trees for navigation. I don't even use the tree in the Market window unless there's no other option to find what I'm looking for.


This please 100000% yes!

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...
Mei ra'Zhault
Kimotoro Trading Company
#320 - 2012-05-28 20:54:24 UTC
Cuchulin wrote:
- double click on a non active ship in my hangar should open the cargohold of said ship (in a new separate window) and not make said ship active as this is highly counterintuitive from usual windows behavior where double click opens folder


+1, this new behaviour is extremely impractical