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New dev blog: This Week In The Unified Inventory

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T1nyMan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#281 - 2012-05-28 13:32:54 UTC  |  Edited by: T1nyMan
Ok ok, just to give myself some credibility 2+2=3 and I'm a soft werewolf engine ear.

The new ui needs some work.. The capacity total does not take into account your skills or fitting if you are not actively in the ship for example (the bar chart at the top of the window) but I think th UI in general has promise.

Its out there now and I remain confident that you are making it a priority to fix it. Thanks for that and great expansion overall.

I do however think that you guys are involved in some sort of conspiracy to ruin my life and I plan to unravel it with my clever yet clearly irrational wit... Oh no wait I had myself confused with some others in this thread.
Rattus Norwegius
#282 - 2012-05-28 13:36:29 UTC
CCP Optimal wrote:

Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible).


So you release a (at best) half-finished, bug ridden, functionality-reducing "feature" that have received overwhelmingly negative feedback on the testserver on to the live production server(and only source of income) in a non-reversible way?

Are you mad?!?Shocked
Mangone
Plan.B
#283 - 2012-05-28 13:42:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Mangone
Captain Praxis wrote:
CCP Optimal wrote:

*Hubris*


I was pretty optimistic over the weekend after reading CCP Soundwave's posts as it seemed that CCP were going to be addressing my concerns and restoring the lost functionality.

Now, after seeing CCP Optimal's post, I'm getting the feeling that CCP may not be as committed as I had thought to sorting out the issues.

Can we get a concrete answer as to whether the following features are definitely going to be re-implemented?

1) - Persistent multiple windows that remeber their size, position and function over session changes and log-outs/log-ins

2) - Separate Ship Hangar & Item Hangar buttons on the Neocom by default (or the ability to add them if they are not default), that open said hangars in separate windows (without a tree), at the same size/position as when they were last open

3) - Having wrecks and cans open in individual windows (without a tree), all at the same size/position as when they were last open

4) - Having the Open Cargohold button on the in-space HUD open the ship's cargo hold in a separate window (without a tree), at the same size/position as when it was last open

5) - Restoration of the missing right-click functions (e.g. Open Drone Bay, Open Fuel Bay, etc...)

You may have noticed the subtle hints above that I hate using trees for navigation. I don't even use the tree in the Market window unless there's no other option to find what I'm looking for.



+1 for this. These are biggest issues i got with this UI. Ive been trying to told this in several threads but i still see no fixes to these things that should be priority atm imo.

"1) - Persistent multiple windows that remeber their size, position and function over session changes and log-outs/log-ins

2) - Separate Ship Hangar & Item Hangar buttons on the Neocom by default (or the ability to add them if they are not default), that open said hangars in separate windows (without a tree), at the same size/position as when they were last open"
Smoke Adian
#284 - 2012-05-28 13:58:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoke Adian
You can't fix this - the whole system is based on a flawed design.

The center piece of the new inventory system is that it is all available in one window, but 90% of the feedback is people asking for and trying to develop work-arounds to return the system to it's old multiple window functionality.

There was nothing wrong with the old system. If I want to see items I click items, if I want to see ships I click ships. If I want them in the same window I just drag them together and get tabs.

What has the new system accomplished? Was more clicks the goal? A reduction in customizability? A decrease in screen real estate thanks to an additional menu and a price estimator that let's be honest is a gimmick?

These are questions you need to ask as you attempt to salvage a system designed on a one window principle that is inconvenient and unwanted. This isn't like the font change complaints where people were just throwing opinions around. In this case people are presenting valid functionality reasons why the old system provided a better user experience.

Now based on your track record, I know that you guys will cling to your new system and refuse to admit defeat. So I'll just accept that and ask, bare minimum, could you please, please provide two separate neocom buttons for the ship hanger and item hanger so I can close the extra tree menu and never see it again? Could you also default these two buttons or provide a way for them to open in separate windows?

[edit] Also, like people are saying, we need a fix to keep windows where they are placed each time they are reopened. This has been a reoccuring issue for years that effects various aspects of the ui. Fixes have been promised countless times but this issue continues to persist.
Euphoria Loreen
Doomheim
#285 - 2012-05-28 14:05:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Euphoria Loreen
EVE Player

I have just found out the new Inventory box is not great but it will be better when they fix it the problems causes.
So I hope the CCP will bring back some off it back and make some changes so everybody will like,

Stay on

Seek no fear!!!
Mar Drakar
LDK
#286 - 2012-05-28 14:07:11 UTC
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:
Mar Drakar wrote:
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:


# In your startup methods somewhere:

# Does our user want to use the new UI?
if 'wantsOldUI' in userConfig and userConfig['wantsOldUI]:
    InitializeOldUI()
else:
    InitializeNewUI() # Default to new UI if they don't want it or haven't specified a preference.



You are soooo full of it.

You assume that both old and new have the same hooks to the overall engine
You assume that it is feasible to implement new UI "interface" for old inventory engine...


And you didn't read the entire post. I said that it's easy to work around those differences.

Plus, if they're using a model-view-controller design, there shouldn't be such a huge goddamn problem. Loot All button calls OnLootAllPressed in the form's class, which then calls activeContainer->LootAllTo(cargoHold).

Seriously, this **** isn't rocket science.

Also, I said not to roll back the entire UI, just the inventory, which is the part that CCP changed and totally ****** up.


And yo uassume that they are using proper MVC for what particular reason?
afaik client is a mashup of C, python and god knows what else, and executions etc are spread all over the place (server and client)...
I just don't see any reason t oassume that inventor "module" is pluggable piece of eve, especially since it was used and abused since the inception of even...

In ideal world - yeah all software should be decoupled as hell, and everything should be covered by tests and change'able/pluggable, but from my 7 analysts years - this is almost never the case.
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#287 - 2012-05-28 14:39:36 UTC
Captain Praxis wrote:
Yonis Kador wrote:

...
Even though we know our hangars are folders on some operating system somewhere in Europe, we suspend our disbelief in-game. When I had a station hangar icon at the bottom of the neocom, for me, it was part of the station. Oooh...the corp hangar icon is over on the other side with the office listings. That was a separate part of the station. Now its all just files in a tree.
...


Yup, I totally agree with you on this point, and it's one that nobody else has mentioned. By the same in-galaxy rationale, wrecks cans, etc. should all be separate windows too, since they're separate objects in space, and not a part of our ship or station.

The old UI definitely made more sense in the context of the separate entities (hangars, ships, things in space) that we interact with, and reinforced the believability/suspension of disbelief much more than the current UI.

It would make a lot more sense for the new UI to replace the Asset finder than the "Inventory" (which, as has been pointed out, doesn't really exist per se in-galaxy).


Totally logical.
Di Mulle
#288 - 2012-05-28 15:00:51 UTC
Mar Drakar wrote:

Also CCP - keep iterating, add explanations, features, back/forward buttons and some other bells and whistles, and in the end every QQing hater in this thread will just have to DEAL WITH IT.


As I understand, your biggest wish is for someone to DEAL WITH IT.
Doesn't matter who, doesn't matter deal with what, is it better, is it worse, is it irrelevant, whatever.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
Lord Wickham
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#289 - 2012-05-28 15:05:47 UTC
when you open cargo or drone bay from your active ship pls for gods sake make it open in a new window? its entirely frustrating to open your cargo for it to replace your items hanger which you need to have open to drag your ammo or stuff that needs transporting. why isn't this automatic? if i open my drone bay in a station its cos i need to put drones into it! i dont want it to replace my items hanger so that i yet again have to scroll down the list to the items hanger then scroll through the items hanger to find the drones that i already had selected to drop into the drone bay.



i still say you should revert to the old way damn it. why yet again do we have some half assed implementation of a system we neither want nor like. maybe if you hadn't rushed this through you could have had more bug reports and more people telling you THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA!
Haifisch Zahne
Hraka Manufacture GmbH
#290 - 2012-05-28 15:08:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Haifisch Zahne
I WAS GOING TO REMOVE THIS POST TO PROTEST CCP's Community Censorship Protocol ("CCCP"), BUT IT WASN'T NECESSARY. OBVIOUSLY.




Well, now that I look over the dev blog Comments, it is amazing to discover that NO ONE has any serious and especially nasty complaints about the new Unified Inventory. It is no wonder that CCP never responds to player complaints, THERE ARE NONE!

CCP Phantom wrote:
Off topic and non-constructive posts removed.

Please remember that this thread is to discuss the devblog in a constructive way. We know how much unhappiness and dissatisfaction was created, but to resolve this situation as fast as possible, it is necessary to have your posts right on the topic while being constructive. This way our developers can read in an efficiently way your feedback and do not need to spend unnecessary time filtering out off topic posts.

Thank you for your help!
Sum Olgy
Perkone
Caldari State
#291 - 2012-05-28 15:08:14 UTC
Ok the new Inventory system is here to stay. We got that.

So, moving on....

Speed is where it's at. It has to be at least as fast as the old system. Opening the Inventory and loading up *everything* in range* is just dog slow and a terrible way to do a data lookup. For instance, the only time I ever care what is in a POS gun is when I've just anchored it - i.e. did I put ammo in or not? I will never care or wonder again as to the contents of a POS gun!!!! Well, until I get sieged, but by then it's all too late. Shocked

What I'd *like* is to have an overview type pre-filter system where I can click on an icon in the neocom that only opens say 'My Ships Cargo Hold' or the 'Top SMA in our POS'. 90% of the things I do with the inventory are only actually a very few operations.

However, it seems to me that upon opening the Inventory you do a database fetch to get everything and only once this has completed do you get the option to filter the results. Why? If, like 99% of the time have no interest in POS guns why load them in the first place?

Oh and the sorting/stacking function is awfully slow, so much to the point where the client lags horribly. I've learned not to stack while I'm salvaging and any team speak requests as to 'how many nano-ribbons have we got' will be regarded with scorn, disappointment and a fond reminiscence of the good old days....





*For a given value of *range* - I'm guessing this is anything on grid that I can interact with?
Jagoff Haverford
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#292 - 2012-05-28 15:09:48 UTC
Please let me copy the inventory details in any given window and past them into Excel. I really got used to doing that in the last month (when this functionality was released with Escalation), and it helped me make plans for industry jobs and PI.
Dennie Fleetfoot
DUST University
#293 - 2012-05-28 15:25:44 UTC
Just sussed it all out.

There's a new skill coming that cost 10 plex that adds all the functionality of the old inventory back.

I'd pay if that's what I got.

CEO Dust University

CPM 1&2 Member

www.twitter.com/DennieFleetfoot
darius1818
#294 - 2012-05-28 15:27:03 UTC
Prince aikka wrote:
When is it planed to fix corp members accessing corp hangers in station? as things sit now the only ones in our corp that can access the corp hangers is Directors because of this error "You have been denied access for the following reason: You require take access to open the container requested." Would be nice to fix this one soon.

i totally agree with that Prince. It is really getting to be a pain in arse. could we please have this issue fixed sometime soon . At least a acknowledgement of the problem would be nice. You asked for feedback and we are giveing it to you,
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#295 - 2012-05-28 15:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: TheSmokingHertog
When opening a container out of the items window within a station, you have to double click the container to get it open, please change the overall click to double click, or change the opening inside an inventory shift clicked field another shift click.

And I will repeat this here:
Quote:

  1. Remove the prefix on containers / inventory windows dragged out of the main inventory window, or reverse the nameset, make my custom name first show, and then the prefix, so I can identify tabbed inventroy windows or containers on the number given to the container. (1, ammo 2, skillbooks, 3 etc)...
  2. Please let he main inventory window remain the focus of your mouse / keyboard until I activate another focuspoint with my mouse, distribution of items to several endpoints (Jita, Dodixie, etc), has now several extra steps, since my stock inventory container looses focus each time, now I have to shift click it and drag / drop from this container, it would be great if I could work with less windows as this update intended.
  3. Can we get the fill bar of containers seen as a little bar on the main inventory tree?
  4. If containers remember not only the location in space / in station, but also the sorting / display state of set window.
  5. Please let containers within the inventory tree have another inventory listing setting as the main window and let them be remembered on container level.
  6. Please let us assign a primary key to the for us important inventory management position. Then if that one is not opened, ALT C could open that window, all other windows could be ignored as inventory windows, since they are not primary keyed.
  7. Make a hide button << for the est price bar, thx

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#296 - 2012-05-28 16:14:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
I am still trying to get used to the new way of doing things... anyway a few more suggestions from me:

- Show a volume bar (occupied / total) next to each hangar / container in the index.
- Starbase structures in the index should show whether they are online or offline. Simply graying out the offline ones should be cool.

I can do most of my POS management work through the index now - it's still about twice slower than using the old system - but doable. But I still have to open the POS management screen to make sure I left all the reaction silos online. Adding an online / offline indicator to the megawindow would streamline the process a little.


[edit] The "Change Silo Type" option is missing from the right-click menu of silos in the index.
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#297 - 2012-05-28 16:19:20 UTC
I have a suggestion and hopefully I can articulate this and make sense.

I find that when I come into station with a cargo hold full of stuff and I want to drop/sort the items off in say my Ammo Station container and then my high slots container etc in my hanger I run into the following annoyance:

1) I drag the particular item from my cargo over to the appropriate container (which usually means some mouse scroll wheel work and then when I hover my pointer with the stuff I'm dragging over the desired container immediately the contents of that container show up. Well that's fine I suppose because now I drop the stuff in, but now I must scroll all the way back up to my ship's cargo hold because I can no longer see in it and I want to drag now something else into a different container. This leads to a lot of back and forth work and when there are lots of personal and corps containers this is really tedious.

2) Now I know I can shift click and make another window for my cargo hold. Got it. But it just seems like it would be easier that the contents of a container in the unified window wouldn't auto open until I click it. But I'm am sure there are other people out there who really like the functionality of the auto open on hover, so my recommendation would be in the unified inventory settings (is there one?) that you have a stadia button you could select to open containers on hover or on click.

Overall I'm starting to get used to it and don't think its too bad. Certainly not worth all the rage. +1 overall once the bugs get worked out.
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#298 - 2012-05-28 16:23:04 UTC
Sum Olgy wrote:
Ok the new Inventory system is here to stay. We got that.

So, moving on....

Speed is where it's at. It has to be at least as fast as the old system. Opening the Inventory and loading up *everything* in range* is just dog slow and a terrible way to do a data lookup. For instance, the only time I ever care what is in a POS gun is when I've just anchored it - i.e. did I put ammo in or not? I will never care or wonder again as to the contents of a POS gun!!!! Well, until I get sieged, but by then it's all too late. Shocked

What I'd *like* is to have an overview type pre-filter system where I can click on an icon in the neocom that only opens say 'My Ships Cargo Hold' or the 'Top SMA in our POS'. 90% of the things I do with the inventory are only actually a very few operations.

However, it seems to me that upon opening the Inventory you do a database fetch to get everything and only once this has completed do you get the option to filter the results. Why? If, like 99% of the time have no interest in POS guns why load them in the first place?

Oh and the sorting/stacking function is awfully slow, so much to the point where the client lags horribly. I've learned not to stack while I'm salvaging and any team speak requests as to 'how many nano-ribbons have we got' will be regarded with scorn, disappointment and a fond reminiscence of the good old days....

*For a given value of *range* - I'm guessing this is anything on grid that I can interact with?


If we are going to be stuck with 'The Tree' why not add presets as we have with Overview? At the moment it seems that Inventory is the equivalent of an Overview preset with every possible option included by default. All of that information is not equally valuable in every circumstance, all the time. Agree?

The player-driven choice of Inventory locations excluded from a particular inventory preset might get me back to where I was before this system was introduced. If I must, I'll burn the time to set up inventory presets; won't be happy about it, but still better than what I get now.
andyminer
Order Of The Jade Dragon
#299 - 2012-05-28 17:35:30 UTC
I have been reading the Forums and have posted twice before about how the player base hates the new Inventory system. Today we had CCP's reply, they are going to tweak the new UI over the next few weeks until we the player base are happy with it. Repeated calls for the new UI to be taken back to SISI and worked on there have been ignored. Hundreds of posts asking for the old UI or at least for us to be given an option to turn off the new system have also been ignored.
I personally now feel that I can't play this game in a way that I have become used to over the last seven years that I have owned my accounts. I am not interested in how the game looks or wether the missiles look nice when you fire them, all I want to do it to be able to navigate around my inventory windows quickly and easily like I used to be able to do.
So, until this update is removed or an option is given to turn it off, I feel that I don't want to play this game anymore and have just parked my six accounts. That means that you have lost over a thousand pounds a year income from me (if you include the GTC's I buy) and you will probably see more people doing this. Most of my corp mates are feeling the same way as me and these are players who have supported your game for years.
I urge you to listen to your player base and scrap this awful update.
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#300 - 2012-05-28 18:23:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mhari Dson
Mar Drakar wrote:
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:
Mar Drakar wrote:
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:


# In your startup methods somewhere:

# Does our user want to use the new UI?
if 'wantsOldUI' in userConfig and userConfig['wantsOldUI]:
    InitializeOldUI()
else:
    InitializeNewUI() # Default to new UI if they don't want it or haven't specified a preference.



You are soooo full of it.

You assume that both old and new have the same hooks to the overall engine
You assume that it is feasible to implement new UI "interface" for old inventory engine...


And you didn't read the entire post. I said that it's easy to work around those differences.

Plus, if they're using a model-view-controller design, there shouldn't be such a huge goddamn problem. Loot All button calls OnLootAllPressed in the form's class, which then calls activeContainer->LootAllTo(cargoHold).

Seriously, this **** isn't rocket science.

Also, I said not to roll back the entire UI, just the inventory, which is the part that CCP changed and totally ****** up.


And yo uassume that they are using proper MVC for what particular reason?
afaik client is a mashup of C, python and god knows what else, and executions etc are spread all over the place (server and client)...
I just don't see any reason t oassume that inventor "module" is pluggable piece of eve, especially since it was used and abused since the inception of even...

In ideal world - yeah all software should be decoupled as hell, and everything should be covered by tests and change'able/pluggable, but from my 7 analysts years - this is almost never the case.



christ, fix the forum preview, it eats my posts.

I typed up a logical and reasonable post and when I clicked preview it was there, clicked post and it left only the quoted material.

As I understand the inventory was written in the base code that so scares the dev teams that they still can't fix/rewrite missions to save their rears. So we can't go back, BFD, restore the functionality we had to the extent we had it and ***** about why it can't be done to each other, not to your paying customers. we want back our multiple persistent state remembering windows and we want 'em to not randomly overwrite each other when we open a new one. restore the multi-tabbed corp hangar and every single removed rightclick and button.

I'm not going to mine/manufacture/reanchor my POS or anything that requires much use of the new system until this is done.... and if the patches are as pitiful as what CCP Soundwave posted about for tomorrow, then the 8 remaining days on my 4 subs aren't going to be enough for CCP to recreate what was already there and functioning properly.